Warning - Possible Hatch Damage Due to Ice Forming

[Studum]

Trying to inform fellow owners of possible winter damage.

I'm a Mazda guy, this is my 4th consecutive vehicle from the brand. 2nd brand new purchased. Both new ones and the 2nd used one serviced at the same dealer (when needed). The CX-5 was purchased from this same dealer. I must admit - I've been terribly disappointing by the response and lack of assistance from both Mazda Canada and the dealership independently. No offer to help at all - None. Not even partially. It hurts real bad being given the cold shoulder for someone who's been loyal to the brand and tried to be an advocate.

Here's what happened: I opened my hatch, heard the power tailgate sounding different. Went to the side of the car to see if I could see anything - all looked OK from the rear and on the roof before I opened the trunk. I saw the metal on the top of the hatch starting to bend. Immediately jumped back to the rear of the vehicle and put most of my weight on the tailgate to try and stop the motors... but it was too late and the damage was done.

I did not attempt to re-open the hatch until later that afternoon at the dealer. They immediately blamed environmental conditions.





It may be tough to see with the white paint, but the center of the upper middle section of the hatch is now bent up, while slightly behind it is dented in. This should be one smooth plane from the roof to the spoiler.

The side photo was taken immediately after the damage occurred. You can see the raised seam at the roof. And you can also see how there's snow / ice at the antenna, but nothing at all at the roof joint.

Mazda says water got in there and froze, and that's no fault of theirs. They also say that anything other than the innermost weatherseal is for wind only and cannot be relied on to keep water out. The motors on the hatch are strong enough to bend the metal with no external indication that there could be issues caused by opening the hatch and the safeties did not self engage - I jumped on them. The body shop says had I not done that the damage would be much worse and the hatch likely would've needed replaced.

Now I realize that the weather had a role to play, but at the same time there must be an underlying issue or design flaw which should be looked at. This did not happen to any colleagues with any of their vehicles exposed to the exact same weather conditions, nor did it happen to any of my neighbors'. The dealer admitted I was the first they saw with the issue - but to Mazda the issue is 100% the weather and as such it's on me.

I've escalated the issue with Mazda Canada, saw another dealer who contacted their territory managers and service reps and they're all coming back the same - environmental.

I 100% understand the weather played a part - obviously, but at the same time something with the vehicle also contributed to this happening. It sure as heck would've been nice to be offered any kind of assistance - even if partial - to get this fixed. As of right now there is less than a thickness of a piece of paper between the edge of the hatch and the roof edge when opening the hatch - so I'm not using it at all until it gets fixed because I don't want to make things any worse.

I just want to get this out there for others to see in case they run into this. I have twins on the way, like due in 2 weeks, and don't have the time or energy to push this any further. I will be getting the repair done on my own time and $ so I can move on with the important things in life.

It's a shame Mazda has taken this position and seriously tarnished what I thought was a wonderful relationship. My business with that dealership is done (I was extremely disappointing at no offer of assistance with their internal body shop even after Mazda said no) and I will be seriously re-considering repeating another vehicle with the brand when it would've come time for Mazda #5.

End of the world? Absolutely not. But trust and faith has been seriously damaged and even after I get it fixed I will be forever worried about this damage happening again.

For the record, I've received a special rate from a local body shop to help at near cost after they heard my story (They're doing it at cost + a nominal admin fee). I was referred to this body shop after trying to investigate paintless dent repair, and that person thought it might be a bit too involved for that. It was amazing to have someone give a crap - someone totally outside of the situation who had no obligation to.

At standard rates all 3 independent body shops I visited were withing $150 of each other at $850-$1,000. I will be getting this repair done for just north of $500 with the special rate applied from the shop I'm going with. Not a major outset in the end, but only palatable due to this one manager's willingness to help.

It's a shame Mazda's chosen to offer no assistance, or even the dealer themselves to use their own body-shop resources. This is why I've scheduled my required 24k KMs service with another dealer closer to my work - which is actually more convenient for me anyways. If maintaining a relationship with a dealer means nothing for abnormal situations like this I have no interest in continuing my business with them.

Former selling and servicing dealer: Kieswetter Motors in Kitchener ON, Canada. Former favorite car brand: Mazda.

That's the end of my vent. And if it happens to anyone else, know you're not the only one.

[jthj]

I can tell you we had something kinda similar happen on a Ford. Not a tailgate issue but was an issue with water getting where it shouldn’t and freezing. It was getting into the air intake at the hood cowl by rain or snow melting. This somehow would get into the blower assembly then if the temperatures dropped low enough it would freeze. At this point you’re not going to have any hear or defrost. Depending on how bad it was sometimes you would be ok once the car thawed but in other cases the blower would need to be replaced. Ford did not just say environmental and refuse to do anything. They released a few updates to the parts in that intake to mitigate it and covered it under warranty. The Ford issue also mainly affected northern US and Canada customers.

This is definitely disappointing as Mazda should probably make a change to mitigate that issue either for the water ingress or the safety mechanism on the hatch motors or both.

[Ghostsniper]

Wow this almost happen to me on the last weekend of the ice/snow storm that lasted 3 days. Good thing I saw that hatch was frozen from the top so I had to go to an indoor parking (Mall) and waited for it to thaw before opening up my hood. I see a big flaw that there was so much ice build up between the gap of the hatch door and the hinges for the door were full of solid ice and snow. I could hear a very crisp cracking sound when I had the door open. Lucky for me, no damage because it was partially thawed.

I feel really disappointed that the dealer can get away blaming environmental condition. Good luck on the repair, hoping it would return back to normal and let us know how it goes, just in case this happen to any of us.

[Kaps]

So was the dent caused because you opened the hatch? Or the dent was caused just by water getting in then freezing and then thawing?
If it is that you did not even touch the hatch and few days later this happened - it is an inherent design flaw. But if you used the hatch and the packed ice under it caused the metal to bend - that is dicey.

But still - I will tell you this - if this happens to 0.001 % of all owners - Mazda can do didly squat and their reputation will be dent didly squat. Reminds me of a story of an overweight Hyundai guy who broke a plastic part of his seat thrice - 3rd time Hyundai said no Buenos.

Re-read this part
"Here's what happened: I opened my hatch, heard the power tailgate sounding different. Went to the side of the car to see if I could see anything - all looked OK from the rear and on the roof before I opened the trunk. I saw the metal on the top of the hatch starting to bend. Immediately jumped back to the rear of the vehicle and put most of my weight on the tailgate to try and stop the motors... but it was too late and the damage was done."

Sorry dude it sucks but I am not sure it is Mazda's fault at all. If there is a gap - water will go, if there is a drop in temperature it will freeze. I understand this does not happen with doors as gravity might help. But I dont think we can blame Mazda for it. Bad design - yes in some ways - but you should have waited for Ice to thaw as well.

[brillo54]

If I were to manually try and open my '16's hatch and met the amount of resistance I think the OP's automatic hatch did, I would stop and investigate further before forcing things. The fact that the motor(s) didn't trip a circuit breaker or overload or clutch or fuse or whatever is problematic to me. Just raise the thing even if you bend sheet metal? I don't think so. Makes me wonder what kind of safeties are in place for closing.

[Jonno21]

You would think this issue would have been designed out at cold weather testing stage, otherwise what is the point of cold weather testing?

[jthj]

Well they missed frozen motor mounts too.

[Studum]

To clarify: There was no ice or snow at all at the exterior rear prior to trying to open the hatch. It looked exactly as pictured in photo 1, minus the bent bodywork.

Photo 1 was taken immediately after the damage occurred. I should also note that the side doors opened without issue before I attempted to open the hatch. No frozen or semi frozen weather stripping like I've had before. Again, no reason for me to think I'd have a problem. This wasn't hail damage, I didn't drive into anything, nothing drove into or collided with the car, nothing fell on it. I have a cracked windshield due to a chip I haven't complained once about. This damage occurred purely because of a vehicle functioning against a completely hidden hazard which is impossible to tell if it exists or not. A hazard which may or may not be due to faulty seals or a poor design.

I'm not interested in tarnishing Mazda's reputation. I love their philosophy and this thing still drives like a dream for what it is.

However I am absolutely saying my personal confidence and satisfaction with the brand has been drastically affected. I also know that doesn't really mean diddly squat to them - but it means a lot to me. Enough that I will be recalling this experience when it comes time to swap out this car. I've happily repeated business with them 3 times now since that first 2003 Protege I fell in love with and I've been happy with the brand for these past 8 or 9 years. This is probably why this is stinging so bad.

My own troubles aside I primarily want make other owners aware that this could happen even if there's no external pressures on the rear roof / hatch - and if it does, and if you're as lucky as I am, you're on your own.

[Puyapim]

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. It is something many of us may not have been aware that could happen. Sorry this has happened to you.

I can see how this could happen. Right now our area is in the middle of a heavy tree pollen season and the buildup of pollen in the hatch opening face above the tail lights tells me water can get through there as well. At least water can flow through the designed drains but ice and pollen have their own idea. Pollen of course is an annoyance and is not going to damage anything.

[Studum]

You would think this issue would have been designed out at cold weather testing stage, otherwise what is the point of cold weather testing?

I suspect this is in fact the reason for the other weather stripping at the top of the hatch and not solely for wind as they claim. Looking at the design water infiltrated that seam and was not allowed to drain out the sides of the hatch, and subsequently froze in place. The freezing / ice buildup was restricted to between the hinges - coincidentally exactly where that strip is. This is proven as the damage is isolated to the direct center of the hatch.

In addition, the rear hatch is now up and above the roof level catching the wind and I don't hear a difference in the car. It may be more evident with the radio completely off, or from the back seat, but from the driver's seat there isn't a noticeable difference to my ears.

But... Mazda didn't seem to care and didn't want to investigate any further. I found this as troublesome as the flat out denial of repair assistance. I would've thought with something so odd they would want some further information on it - or at least put in some form of elevated investigation before a flat out denial of assistance - other than a service manager taking a cell phone picture.

But I don't work in Mazda QA or engineering and I certainly can't make them do anything. All I can say is how it's changed my view and ownership experience.

[Desertsp]

Geez that's unacceptable. The three bare minimum things a car should do are reliably get you from point A to B, withstand the elements, and do it all safely.

I wonder how dependent their designs are to the vehicle being cleaned and debris free? (Not that yours isn't) Some people have to park under trees for example and little drain holes can get plugged up with tiny leaves. Where do the engineers direct the overflow in that case...into the roof?

[Lbear]

This is something Mazda didn't see happening. It's one of those scenarios that only surface in the real world. That's the danger of any new design. It can take years to discover design flaws like this.

Will it happen again to someone else? Yes

[Unobtanium]

So was the dent caused because you opened the hatch? Or the dent was caused just by water getting in then freezing and then thawing?
If it is that you did not even touch the hatch and few days later this happened - it is an inherent design flaw. But if you used the hatch and the packed ice under it caused the metal to bend - that is dicey.

But still - I will tell you this - if this happens to 0.001 % of all owners - Mazda can do didly squat and their reputation will be dent didly squat. Reminds me of a story of an overweight Hyundai guy who broke a plastic part of his seat thrice - 3rd time Hyundai said no Buenos.

Re-read this part
"Here's what happened: I opened my hatch, heard the power tailgate sounding different. Went to the side of the car to see if I could see anything - all looked OK from the rear and on the roof before I opened the trunk. I saw the metal on the top of the hatch starting to bend. Immediately jumped back to the rear of the vehicle and put most of my weight on the tailgate to try and stop the motors... but it was too late and the damage was done."

Sorry dude it sucks but I am not sure it is Mazda's fault at all. If there is a gap - water will go, if there is a drop in temperature it will freeze. I understand this does not happen with doors as gravity might help. But I dont think we can blame Mazda for it. Bad design - yes in some ways - but you should have waited for Ice to thaw as well.

ROFL!!!! I remember that!

[Unobtanium]

This is something Mazda didn't see happening. It's one of those scenarios that only surface in the real world. That's the danger of any new design. It can take years to discover design flaws like this.

Will it happen again to someone else? Yes

Yep. This is why I weigh "new model envy" against "Mine doesn't have any problems" very heavily.

[Kaps]

If I were OP - I would contact famous youtube auto reviewers and suggest a video about pitfalls of new design - shoot this video, maybe let them fill ice and try to open the hatch and see it break fully - it will be same cost more or less.
Youtubers love shitting on things - then take a link of that video and go to Twitter - tag Mazda Canada / USA handle and say - I am impressed with the build quality of your cars. Repost everywhere. Add it on all websites which are social - reddit / yeddit etc etc. You will run into fanboys but your video speaks the truth.
Trust me if you shit on Mazda's quality on youtube - half of honda / toyota owners would celebrate and have orgasms - your upvotes and popularity will sky rocket.