lack of proper maintenane yet sold CPO, really???

D

Desertsp

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In my continuing quest for a 2014 Touring AWD in "sky blue mica", I've come across several CPO cars with what I would consider major blemishes on their service history. Unexplained gaps in verifiable records, and at least one instance where the records (obtained from a prior owner) suggested an inexperienced mechanic made some mistakes that resulted in a "dry dipstick" condition.

I'm seeing this sort of thing at multiple Mazda dealers in different states. It seems that they only look at the present condition of the vehicle and ignore its maintenance records when determining whether or not to certify. I can guess why...

Am I wrong to assume that all CPO does is guarantee the car won't imminently fail, but it has zero bearing on long-term reliability?
 
Desertsp said:
In my continuing quest for a 2014 Touring AWD in "sky blue mica", I've come across several CPO cars with what I would consider major blemishes on their service history. Unexplained gaps in verifiable records, and at least one instance where the records (obtained from a prior owner) suggested an inexperienced mechanic made some mistakes that resulted in a "dry dipstick" condition.

I'm seeing this sort of thing at multiple Mazda dealers in different states. It seems that they only look at the present condition of the vehicle and ignore its maintenance records when determining whether or not to certify. I can guess why...

Am I wrong to assume that all CPO does is guarantee the car won't imminently fail, but it has zero bearing on long-term reliability?
Click to expand...
It provides a longer warranty that is tacked on to the existing warranty if it still applicable.
 
CPO has 2 warranties in most cases - my Toyota CPO had
1 year 12000 mile bumper to bumper - well not useful since it was already under 3 year 36000 mile warranty
7 year 100000 mile drivetrain warranty = engine / trans / cat convertor - thats it (not even sure on cat convertor).

This month i realized there was an optional TSB - for touch screen failure. I am out of warranty and Toyota is playing the - get an estimate and we will pay some of it game.

CPO for Mazda will be similar. CPO is useful if you plan on only keeping the car for 100-120K miles. If you really want to keep it for 200+ thousand miles - a lower mileage is >>>> CPO. Low mileage means less possibility of damage. CPO usually adds $700-1000 on price of car.
Depends on what you want.
 
Desertsp said:
In my continuing quest for a 2014 Touring AWD in "sky blue mica", I've come across several CPO cars with what I would consider major blemishes on their service history. Unexplained gaps in verifiable records, and at least one instance where the records (obtained from a prior owner) suggested an inexperienced mechanic made some mistakes that resulted in a "dry dipstick" condition.

I'm seeing this sort of thing at multiple Mazda dealers in different states. It seems that they only look at the present condition of the vehicle and ignore its maintenance records when determining whether or not to certify. I can guess why...

Am I wrong to assume that all CPO does is guarantee the car won't imminently fail, but it has zero bearing on long-term reliability?
Click to expand...

None of those things things will disqualify a vehicle from being CPO'd by most manufacturers. The Mazda CPO program is very strict on what is required and the vehicles basically have to be returned to factory specs
 
Puyapim said:
Always Buyer Beware. Used cars can be a minefield and the CPO warranty while useful is just a selling point.
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It definitely is! The dealerships pretty much ignore me when I point out glaring holes in maintenance history, saying its CPO so there are no problems, the car actually has a better-than-original warranty!

I suspect enough other buyers must be under the mistaken impression that CPO means properly maintained.....so dealers are using the program to jack up prices. If the car comes in with four flat tires and no oil...but runs fine once those are addressed, just CPO it and make mint!
 
in order for a mazda dealership to sell a car as a "CPO" they have to have their master mechanic sign off on a 160 point inspection
https://www.cstatic-images.com/image/upload/v1479143413/cpo/inspections/mazda-inspection.pdf

I don't think they care about the service history--they look at the car as it is and how it's performing as the mechanic is inspecting it. if something needs to be replaced, it will be. the CPO also adds an extra year onto your warranty. I bought my 2017 GT as a CPO.
 
Desertsp said:
It definitely is! The dealerships pretty much ignore me when I point out glaring holes in maintenance history, saying “it’s CPO so there are no problems, the car actually has a better-than-original warranty!”

I suspect enough other buyers must be under the mistaken impression that CPO means properly maintained.....so dealers are using the program to jack up prices. If the car comes in with four flat tires and no oil...but runs fine once those are addressed, just CPO it and make mint!
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The CPO'd vehicle will have a 7 year/100,000mi powertrain warranty so any hypothetical issues would be covered. It's funny how you think that the small price increase for CPOing a vehicle is 'making mint'
 
dunhillmc said:
The CPO'd vehicle will have a 7 year/100,000mi powertrain warranty so any hypothetical issues would be covered. It's funny how you think that the small price increase for CPOing a vehicle is 'making mint'
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Well, lets say the first owner only changed their oil every 15,000 miles and used the wrong viscosity. Yeah the car will probably still last beyond 100,000 miles (no warranty claim needed), but the damage is done and it's likely to fail sooner than a car that was correctly maintained. And there's no way to determine this (apparently) short of tearing open the engine or looking at service history.

A dealer could buy that car for cheap by telling the seller it hasn't been maintained correctly, then spend $500 to CPO and sell to someone who assumes that "certified" means they're buying a well-maintained vehicle instead of a time bomb.
 
Carfo said:
in order for a mazda dealership to sell a car as a "CPO" they have to have their master mechanic sign off on a 160 point inspection
https://www.cstatic-images.com/image/upload/v1479143413/cpo/inspections/mazda-inspection.pdf

I don't think they care about the service history--they look at the car as it is and how it's performing as the mechanic is inspecting it. if something needs to be replaced, it will be. the CPO also adds an extra year onto your warranty. I bought my 2017 GT as a CPO.
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After #6 on the checklist, with a big red STOP sign, it says "inconsistent or incomplete maintenance history" is a disqualifier for CPO enrollment or sale.

cpo.png

Gonna run that by these dealers and see what they say......thank you for sharing the checklist!
 
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Desertsp said:
Well, lets say the first owner only changed their oil every 15,000 miles and used the wrong viscosity. Yeah the car will probably still last beyond 100,000 miles (no warranty claim needed), but the damage is done and it's likely to fail sooner than a car that was correctly maintained. And there's no way to determine this (apparently) short of tearing open the engine or looking at service history.

A dealer could buy that car for cheap by telling the seller it hasn't been maintained correctly, then spend $500 to CPO and sell to someone who assumes that "certified" means they're buying a well-maintained vehicle instead of a time bomb.
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That is exactly what I answered.
If you want to drive this 200-350 thousand miles over next many years -
Buy as low mileage as your budget can afford - let go features / trims etc.
Drive cautiously.
Change oil - do regular maintenance.

If you dont want to own beyond 120K miles - CPO is good option.
Its not hard to understand.
 
Kaps said:
That is exactly what I answered.
If you want to drive this 200-350 thousand miles over next many years -
Buy as low mileage as your budget can afford - let go features / trims etc.
Drive cautiously.
Change oil - do regular maintenance.

If you dont want to own beyond 120K miles - CPO is good option.
Its not hard to understand.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that CPO is sometimes being used to "hide" lack of maintenance from unsuspecting buyers.

I personally would never consider selling a car at 120,000 miles...it's just getting broken in by then LOL. Was hoping that CPO would be a good way to screen for well-maintained cars, but apparently it's not :(
 
Maybe not for well-maintained cars, but it is still a good way to find good used cars. (For example, cars in an accident will never be certified.) The extended warranty is there to cover possible powertrain issues in the future.
 
Desertsp said:
Oh I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that CPO is sometimes being used to "hide" lack of maintenance from unsuspecting buyers.

I personally would never consider selling a car at 120,000 miles...it's just getting broken in by then LOL. Was hoping that CPO would be a good way to screen for well-maintained cars, but apparently it's not :(
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how is CPOing a vehicle, where a copy of the Carfax/AutoCheck is presented to a customer, hiding a lack of maintenance? If an owner is doing their own maintenance, it's not going to show on a Carfax anyway.

Earlier you said that you got maintenance records on a CPO vehicle from the previous owner. How did you go about that?
 
dunhillmc said:
how is CPOing a vehicle, where a copy of the Carfax/AutoCheck is presented to a customer, hiding a lack of maintenance? If an owner is doing their own maintenance, it's not going to show on a Carfax anyway.
Click to expand...

Maybe "hiding" is too harsh...but definitely taking advantage of unsuspecting buyers.

dunhillmc said:
Earlier you said that you got maintenance records on a CPO vehicle from the previous owner. How did you go about that?
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I originally found the car on craigslist and the guy shared everything he had on it. He has since sold the car to a dealer who currently has it listed for $3,462 more than they paid.

https://www.odanielmazda.com/certif...zda+CX-5-f8df39a90a0e0a172d639be154621d49.htm
 
Desertsp said:
Unfortunately that's not true either. This one has two reported accidents:

https://www.russdarrowmazdaofmilwaukee.com/auto/used-2014-mazda-cx5-touring-milwaukee-wi/26799694/
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I was under the impression that manufacturers don't certify cars that have been in accidents before. Looks like Mazda is okay with cars that have been in accidents before. I tried to skim through their CPO brochure and I didn't see it mentioned that they don't certify cars that have been in accidents. So you seem to be right about that. It's good that you brought that up since I've been looking at cpo Mazdas as well, though all that I've checked out weren't in accidents before.
 
Or it might depend on severity of the accident. Like what happened to ours where someone backed into it and dented the door panel. Vs something at a higher speed with airbags deployed and likely structural damages. But I dunno how you would clearly define that.
 
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