"Auto Pilot" Rating?

MattGoose

Member
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CX-9
I looked for, but couldn't find, a poll function to ask this - but I'm curious how people would rate the performance of the "auto pilot" functions?

Most specifically, the adaptive cruise control feature. Overall, how would you rate it? Do you think it drives smoothly or not?

Personally - I love the function and I use it all the time. The function was one of the reasons I looked at the car in the first place.

But, I'm a little surprised that it doesn't work better. Again, it hasn't run me into anyone yet, so this is more conversational nitpicking than anything else :)

It seems like it brakes late, and accelerates late and slow. Is that a limitation of the radar/camera technology, or more first gen software?

Would be very happy if the hardware in our cars would support a solid auto pilot revision. But even then, will be much happier than driving without the aid!
 
I trust that by putting it quotation marks you recognize that it's not a true "auto pilot" as one might expect when hearing those words. I find the adaptive cruise control to be fine, but it's nothing special. I think the limitation with it, and really all radar adaptive cruise controls, is that it is a reactive system. It can only react to whatever physical situation it's presented with; it can't see brake lights, and it can't anticipate the same way I can. And along those lines it will always be worse than (most :D) humans. When it's I who's in complete control, I'm not just looking at the distance between me and the car in front of me; I'm looking at the car in front of that one, and checking for brake lights on both vehicles. I'm also looking at the traffic control devices. And so I may start to brake before the car in front of me does because I can take in all that information and process it.

The other issue I've found with adaptive cruise control is it can't distinguish between a car that's in front of you in your lane and a car (or other object) that's just directly in front of you. This is most evident on roads with curves, where the car that's in your lane is still a good distance ahead of you, but there's a car that is, physically speaking, directly in front of you but in the next lane over. I find that the adaptive cruise control will "panic" in that situation, thinking that a car has suddenly pulled in front of you, and brake hard.

Our MDX also has adaptive cruise control, and it's pretty much the same. The MDX bests the CX-9, though, on the lane keep assist feature. The MDX will steer itself through soft turns at speeds over 45mph, so long as it can "see" the lane lines. The CX-9 will nudge you back and vibrate the steering wheel (that's the setting I have it at), but it won't truly steer for you.

IMHO - we're still a LONG ways off from truly autonomous driving.
 
It seems like it brakes late, and accelerates late and slow.

I find the same, but that can be manipulated a bit by using the distance controls. You can increase the following distance to get it to brake sooner. I haven't found a work around for the slow acceleration. Or the thing that really bugs me is when a car pulls out of the lane in front of me, and the cruise keeps braking anyway...I find myself hitting the gas to override it a lot in that situation.
 
It just Ok... on curves, it loses sight of the car ahead and starts to accelerate - even though the car ahead is the same distance. So it then brakes to keep the distance that it was set to - so this is rather annoying.
 
As I’ve stated before,

Stop & Go Cruise Control – one thing I don’t get?

With a month’s experience now using Stop/Go Cruise almost exclusively (probably 95% of all the time I’m driving, either in traffic jams, normal suburb roads, or freeways), one thing I really don’t get is why “Headway Control Mode” is so very short while you are stopped?

As you may know, while under “Headway Control” (the time when the Radar is actively controlling your distance behind the vehicle in front of you and is stopping you as required), it brings you to a complete stop and waits a few seconds, ready to accelerate again when traffic starts moving. But it only waits for 4-5 seconds, after which it goes into “Hold Mode”, automatically keeping you from creeping without you having to keep your foot on the brake.

That’s when the “magic automation” stops, (for no apparent reason), and as the traffic starts moving again, you must take active control again and “resume”.

But it would be so much more valuable if it stayed under “Headway Control” the whole time you waited for the red light to change, and then automatically accelerated again, more fully automating the whole process. (So for example you could pay more attention to your phone / radio / messages and not waste time starring at the traffic in front of you, then it’s gentle acceleration would alert you to start “driving” again.

Clearly there is no technical reason for this unfortunate behavior; it could only require another “Personnel Setting” like:

Stationary Headway Control Auto-Off after:

5 Seconds (Default) – 30 Seconds – 1 Minute – 3 Minutes

Of course I know it is implemented like it is because it is all about legal issues. The auto manufacturers fear of liability revolving around the growing “semi-autonomous” driving aids. Interestingly, it appears that all of the auto manufacturers I’ve looked into (Volvo, GM, Ford, etc.) ALL appear to have implemented Stop & Go Cruise Control EXACTLY the same way, with that built-in automatic disengage of Headway Control at a standstill after 4-5 seconds.

I get why almost all auto manufactures (in their “Lane Keep Assist” or “Auto-Pilot”) steering systems, require active ways to force you to periodically take steering control after 10-20 seconds or so, but I’m talking about the period while
you’re STANDING STILL!

I cannot see any logical or legal reason why “Stationary Headway Control” is OK for 5 seconds, but not for 1-3 minutes?
 
There could be an issue if you are in a right lane that can turn right on red. If the cars in front of you all turn right and you approach the front and are going straight, your car would resume at your set speed through a red light.

I can't say for sure because I've never used it on a road with stoplights. I only use it on the highways where you are seldom stopped for more than a moment or two.
 
Yes you are correct, that is exactly what would happen. But a much more common thing happens to me daily…

I drive through slow Stop-n-Go traffic daily into Siesta Village – (where there is a 4-way intersection with a Stop sign). As the row of traffic ahead of me crawls slowly toward the Stop sign, the Radar Cruise works perfect – until there is only a single car in front of me that stops (mine stops automatically), then he starts through the Stop sign and mine (if I do not apply the brakes), will of course want to run the stop sign.

In both cases, the Radar Cruise is only doing what it is designed to do, following the vehicle in front of it, and when there is no vehicle in front, slowly accelerating to the pre-set speed. (This is of course exactly how one would want it to behave).

(And clearly, the reason that it accelerates SLOWLY is to give the driver plenty of time to brake if appropriate).

But my point is that currently, even given it’s extremely short 3-4 seconds before “Stationary Headway Control” times-out, it already behaves like this. So lengthening that period to 30 seconds or more, would NOT cause it to behave any different.

(FYI – for those of you that only use Radar Cruise at high speeds on freeways, I would suggest you are missing it’s key advantage – it’s ability to crawl along in bumper to bumper traffic regardless of the speed limit – I always use it all over in places where our speed limit is 20mph – works great!)
 
I trust that by putting it quotation marks you recognize that it's not a true "auto pilot" as one might expect when hearing those words. I find the adaptive cruise control to be fine, but it's nothing special. I think the limitation with it, and really all radar adaptive cruise controls, is that it is a reactive system. It can only react to whatever physical situation it's presented with; it can't see brake lights, and it can't anticipate the same way I can. And along those lines it will always be worse than (most :D) humans. When it's I who's in complete control, I'm not just looking at the distance between me and the car in front of me; I'm looking at the car in front of that one, and checking for brake lights on both vehicles. I'm also looking at the traffic control devices. And so I may start to brake before the car in front of me does because I can take in all that information and process it.

The other issue I've found with adaptive cruise control is it can't distinguish between a car that's in front of you in your lane and a car (or other object) that's just directly in front of you. This is most evident on roads with curves, where the car that's in your lane is still a good distance ahead of you, but there's a car that is, physically speaking, directly in front of you but in the next lane over. I find that the adaptive cruise control will "panic" in that situation, thinking that a car has suddenly pulled in front of you, and brake hard.

Our MDX also has adaptive cruise control, and it's pretty much the same. The MDX bests the CX-9, though, on the lane keep assist feature. The MDX will steer itself through soft turns at speeds over 45mph, so long as it can "see" the lane lines. The CX-9 will nudge you back and vibrate the steering wheel (that's the setting I have it at), but it won't truly steer for you.

IMHO - we're still a LONG ways off from truly autonomous driving.

Definitely using air quotes because it's not up to the task yet!

I'd like to see the real time data analysis the system is doing - to your point I doubt it is doing a particularly sophisticated analysis and, based on how often it loses sight of lane lines, I don't have a high level of faith in what it is seeing.

I think most frustrating is that it doesn't seem to understand the concept of coast or of small uses of brake/throttle. It's using radar, so it is capable of seeing relative speed and relative changes in speed - if the car in front starts to coast, coast with it!

I'm ok with not having truly autonomous driving, but I would like to have system that I trust just a bit more. I'm never sure that I'm not going to plow into the car in front of me. More than once I've had the smart brake support yelling at me to brake while I wait for the adaptive cruise control to adapt to the fact that the car in front of me is stopped.... I've definitely stepped in a couple of times - not sure if I had to, but I wasn't going to wait any longer and find out!
 
I find the same, but that can be manipulated a bit by using the distance controls. You can increase the following distance to get it to brake sooner. I haven't found a work around for the slow acceleration. Or the thing that really bugs me is when a car pulls out of the lane in front of me, and the cruise keeps braking anyway...I find myself hitting the gas to override it a lot in that situation.

I feel like this just moves the problem - I want it to brake sooner not to keep me farther away from the car, but to keep from getting jerked around in the car.

The braking is too fast and the acceleration is too slow.

But for creep along and stop and go traffic, it is much more relaxing to rely on the car than deal with it myself still!
 
As I’ve stated before,

Stop & Go Cruise Control – one thing I don’t get?

With a month’s experience now using Stop/Go Cruise almost exclusively (probably 95% of all the time I’m driving, either in traffic jams, normal suburb roads, or freeways), one thing I really don’t get is why “Headway Control Mode” is so very short while you are stopped?

As you may know, while under “Headway Control” (the time when the Radar is actively controlling your distance behind the vehicle in front of you and is stopping you as required), it brings you to a complete stop and waits a few seconds, ready to accelerate again when traffic starts moving. But it only waits for 4-5 seconds, after which it goes into “Hold Mode”, automatically keeping you from creeping without you having to keep your foot on the brake.

That’s when the “magic automation” stops, (for no apparent reason), and as the traffic starts moving again, you must take active control again and “resume”.

But it would be so much more valuable if it stayed under “Headway Control” the whole time you waited for the red light to change, and then automatically accelerated again, more fully automating the whole process. (So for example you could pay more attention to your phone / radio / messages and not waste time starring at the traffic in front of you, then it’s gentle acceleration would alert you to start “driving” again.

Clearly there is no technical reason for this unfortunate behavior; it could only require another “Personnel Setting” like:

Stationary Headway Control Auto-Off after:

5 Seconds (Default) – 30 Seconds – 1 Minute – 3 Minutes

Of course I know it is implemented like it is because it is all about legal issues. The auto manufacturers fear of liability revolving around the growing “semi-autonomous” driving aids. Interestingly, it appears that all of the auto manufacturers I’ve looked into (Volvo, GM, Ford, etc.) ALL appear to have implemented Stop & Go Cruise Control EXACTLY the same way, with that built-in automatic disengage of Headway Control at a standstill after 4-5 seconds.

I get why almost all auto manufactures (in their “Lane Keep Assist” or “Auto-Pilot”) steering systems, require active ways to force you to periodically take steering control after 10-20 seconds or so, but I’m talking about the period while
you’re STANDING STILL!

I cannot see any logical or legal reason why “Stationary Headway Control” is OK for 5 seconds, but not for 1-3 minutes?

Yeah, I think we've gone back and forth on this previously and, respectfully, I have to disagree.

These are not autonomous systems. They are not intended to be autonomous systems. Allowing the car to move forward without demanding driver attention would be totally inconsistent with that. I already quoted you above, but I'm quoting again because you're hitting exactly the point that I want to make:

So for example you could pay more attention to your phone / radio / messages and not waste time starring at the traffic in front of you, then it’s gentle acceleration would alert you to start “driving” again.

Yeah - the car should not be able to start moving forward from a standstill on it's own so you have more time to play with the radio. I don't want to be alerted that I need to look around and make sure that I'm not going to run a kid or a motorcycle over after the car has already started moving.

I understand that you think you're talking about the period where the car is standing still - but you aren't. You're talking about the car starting to move up to 3 minutes after the driver has made any indication that they are still engaged? No.

It is entirely unreasonable to let a car start driving all by itself 3 minutes after it stopped doing so.

To overcome the bypass you need to touch the gas or hit the resume button on the steering wheel. That's not unreasonable.
 
Hey MattGoose – I appreciate your comments and thoughtful responses.

(I would say that the overall subject of discussion is “Level 2 semi-autonomous driving systems” )

I would think that it is OK and natural that we may differ on our thoughts concerning certain behaviors of these semi-autonomous driving systems.

I think I see the important point you are making, (that the vehicle should NOT be allowed to accelerate from a “dead stop” stationary position without some method of assuring full driver attention).

But I would point out that it already does. My vehicle will come to a complete “dead stop” stationary position and then accelerate away (as long as it happens inside of an ARBITRARY time limit of approximately 3-4 seconds.)

(I guess they could not call it “Stop and Go” Cruise if it did not behave like that).

I also (respectively) disagree with your thought that “… I think I’m talking about the period that the car is standing still (to play with the radio, etc.) but you aren’t”.

But I am talking about that exact period when the vehicle is standing still.

As you point out, we’ve gone back and forth on this subject before, and I find many of your arguments compelling.

In later discussions I believe I have modified my beliefs and now agree with you that 3 minutes is way too long for the vehicle to stay under “Headway Control” (The state where it will automatically accelerate if the vehicle in front of it does).

But I still believe that the current 3-4 seconds before a “timeout” is very ARBITRARY, and making that period a user setting with choices up to about 10-15 seconds would improve the overall experience without compromising safely.

But Hey – that’s just one mans opinion!
 
OK, I'm in a different generation here, but I find the adaptive cruise control intrusive and annoying. As colnago1331 implies, it is useless on a twisty road as it can't differentiate between a car ahead and in the same lane and one that is in a different lane but still visible to the radar as if it is in my lane. I drove through the mountains to Vancouver the other day and I could only stand it for five minutes before I just switched the adaptive function off. I can see the attraction if you commute on crowded freeways mostly in a straight line, but under any other circumstances it is a solution looking for a problem.

Matter of fact, six months into ownership I have disabled pretty much all the electronic nagging devices. Again like colnago1331, when I'm driving I like to drive and I like to be the one who makes the decisions, not rely on some piece of clever technology that can vibrate the steering wheel and tell me I am speeding. Yes, the technology fascinates me, but as a serious contributor to safety it all has a long way to go.

The problem, of course, is that in poll after poll, 90 percent of drivers claim to be above average. Why are they always in the left lane, in front of me, texting, and travelling at 10 mph below the limit?
 
OK, I'm in a different generation here, but I find the adaptive cruise control intrusive and annoying. As colnago1331 implies, it is useless on a twisty road as it can't differentiate between a car ahead and in the same lane and one that is in a different lane but still visible to the radar as if it is in my lane. I drove through the mountains to Vancouver the other day and I could only stand it for five minutes before I just switched the adaptive function off. I can see the attraction if you commute on crowded freeways mostly in a straight line, but under any other circumstances it is a solution looking for a problem.

Matter of fact, six months into ownership I have disabled pretty much all the electronic nagging devices. Again like colnago1331, when I'm driving I like to drive and I like to be the one who makes the decisions, not rely on some piece of clever technology that can vibrate the steering wheel and tell me I am speeding. Yes, the technology fascinates me, but as a serious contributor to safety it all has a long way to go.

The problem, of course, is that in poll after poll, 90 percent of drivers claim to be above average. Why are they always in the left lane, in front of me, texting, and travelling at 10 mph below the limit?

I've disabled lane assist and shut off the HUD. When I go in for maintainance I'm going to see if the HUD can be defaulted to the off position and the info screen can be defaulted to clock only.

I'm doing this because I strive to be in the moment. Much of the technology I find distracting. Some like BSM, I like.

My job requires that I wear headphones and listen to music all day. I find the quiet of the CX-9 to be a refreshing change.
 
Hey MattGoose – I appreciate your comments and thoughtful responses.

(I would say that the overall subject of discussion is “Level 2 semi-autonomous driving systems” )

I would think that it is OK and natural that we may differ on our thoughts concerning certain behaviors of these semi-autonomous driving systems.

I think I see the important point you are making, (that the vehicle should NOT be allowed to accelerate from a “dead stop” stationary position without some method of assuring full driver attention).

But I would point out that it already does. My vehicle will come to a complete “dead stop” stationary position and then accelerate away (as long as it happens inside of an ARBITRARY time limit of approximately 3-4 seconds.)

(I guess they could not call it “Stop and Go” Cruise if it did not behave like that).

I also (respectively) disagree with your thought that “… I think I’m talking about the period that the car is standing still (to play with the radio, etc.) but you aren’t”.

But I am talking about that exact period when the vehicle is standing still.


As you point out, we’ve gone back and forth on this subject before, and I find many of your arguments compelling.

In later discussions I believe I have modified my beliefs and now agree with you that 3 minutes is way too long for the vehicle to stay under “Headway Control” (The state where it will automatically accelerate if the vehicle in front of it does).

But I still believe that the current 3-4 seconds before a “timeout” is very ARBITRARY, and making that period a user setting with choices up to about 10-15 seconds would improve the overall experience without compromising safely.

But Hey – that’s just one mans opinion!

Always interested in someone else's opinion!

Just wanted to clarify. What I was trying to say above (I bolded/underlined the section in your comment) is that we are talking about the same activity - the car staying still and then moving again on it's on.

You're asking why that can't be as long as possible - which is a good question. What I'm saying is that you need to determine the "hold" period by thinking about how long it's ok to rely on the previous known driver interaction. Same period of time, just asking a different question.

My attention span runs to a few seconds at most :)
 
I've disabled lane assist and shut off the HUD. When I go in for maintainance I'm going to see if the HUD can be defaulted to the off position and the info screen can be defaulted to clock only.

I'm doing this because I strive to be in the moment. Much of the technology I find distracting. Some like BSM, I like.

My job requires that I wear headphones and listen to music all day. I find the quiet of the CX-9 to be a refreshing change.

Whatever makes you happy in your car :)

Those are easy changes to make in the Settings - I don't know the path off the top of my head, but you they are fairly easy to access.

If you want me to take a more detailed note and let you know, I can do that. Just let me know!
 
OK, I'm in a different generation here, but I find the adaptive cruise control intrusive and annoying. As colnago1331 implies, it is useless on a twisty road as it can't differentiate between a car ahead and in the same lane and one that is in a different lane but still visible to the radar as if it is in my lane. I drove through the mountains to Vancouver the other day and I could only stand it for five minutes before I just switched the adaptive function off. I can see the attraction if you commute on crowded freeways mostly in a straight line, but under any other circumstances it is a solution looking for a problem.

Matter of fact, six months into ownership I have disabled pretty much all the electronic nagging devices. Again like colnago1331, when I'm driving I like to drive and I like to be the one who makes the decisions, not rely on some piece of clever technology that can vibrate the steering wheel and tell me I am speeding. Yes, the technology fascinates me, but as a serious contributor to safety it all has a long way to go.

The problem, of course, is that in poll after poll, 90 percent of drivers claim to be above average. Why are they always in the left lane, in front of me, texting, and travelling at 10 mph below the limit?

All I know is that I'm way above average as a driver :)

I'm very interested to read your and colnago1331's account of the CC failing on twisty roads. I do not recall having a similar issue - I don't recall any instances where the system had trouble discriminating between objects moving toward me and object moving away from me. I would not consider that to be expected behavior....

If you are talking about two lanes going in the same direction, I've also never once experienced that. Of the 6,200 miles I have on my car, I would venture that well over half of that has had adaptive cruise control turned on and I've never seen what the two of you experience. I'm honestly surprised to hear that that behavior was so pervasive in your car that you turned the tech off. I've literally never seen it before.

As for the rest of the support tech, I've turned it all down a bit. Instead of getting a vibration, etc. when I go over the speed limit I changed it so that it pops up in the HUD. I turned off most of the bells and other audible noises. I'm pretty much completely neutral on the LKAS - mostly because you cut over lane lines so often normally (going around someone turning, etc.) - but it has gotten my attention once or twice.

I'm glad to see cars start to introduce the tech and the level of stress is way down for me as a driver - especially when driving two kids, my wife, and the dog through three hours of ski country traffic. r
 
Whatever makes you happy in your car :)

Those are easy changes to make in the Settings - I don't know the path off the top of my head, but you they are fairly easy to access.

If you want me to take a more detailed note and let you know, I can do that. Just let me know!

I was hoping the HUD would default to off upon starting the car. As it is now, I have to go into the settings menu and turn it off manually, everytime.
 
I was hoping the HUD would default to off upon starting the car. As it is now, I have to go into the settings menu and turn it off manually, everytime.

Really? That's bizarre. All the other settings that I've changed have been persistent. Good luck!
 
I was hoping the HUD would default to off upon starting the car. As it is now, I have to go into the settings menu and turn it off manually, everytime.

If it won't retain the off setting you could try turning down the brightness setting to the minimum and/or move it up or down out of your vision.
 
I'm very interested to read your and colnago1331's account of the CC failing on twisty roads. I do not recall having a similar issue - I don't recall any instances where the system had trouble discriminating between objects moving toward me and object moving away from me. I would not consider that to be expected behavior....

For me it's a situation on my morning commute. On one of the freeways I drive on there's a big sweep to the right and then back to the left. If I'm in the right-most or center lane just before the sweep to the right and there's a car in the lane to my left that's going faster than I am, as that car "crosses" in front of me because I'm not yet to the curve and it's at/in the curve, it seems like the radar will pick it up as a vehicle that has cut into my lane and brake for me, even though that's not at all what's happening.
 
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