Email back from Mazda - Transmission Fluid Change

I guess Unobtanium meant since your Jetta TDI was excellent on torque and fuel economy, why couldn't you keep driving it? Was it because the offer of buy-back from VW is too good to refuse?

Pretty much, the cars were great, and will only increase in value. One of the few cases of a modern recent production vehicle being what it call a legit investment. "Dieselgate" was a huge value builder for the owners.
 
Pretty much, the cars were great, and will only increase in value. One of the few cases of a modern recent production vehicle being what it call a legit investment. "Dieselgate" was a huge value builder for the owners.

In some states the customer is left with no choice but to sell back. If VW has no fix designed and the car can't meet emissions, it can't be legally driven. Or if VW has a fix and it kills any performance the car has, does the customer really want to keep it? These seem to be the 2 issues driving the buy back - not to mention that owners got good money for used cars.
 
Yes, they doped the tune for the sake of passing EPA, which allowed them to have solid performance, fuel economy, etc. of course, while not meeting new EPA guidelines.
Am I missing/misunderstanding?

I guess Unobtanium meant since your Jetta TDI was excellent on torque and fuel economy, why couldn't you keep driving it? Was it because the offer of buy-back from VW is too good to refuse?

Pretty much, the cars were great, and will only increase in value. One of the few cases of a modern recent production vehicle being what it call a legit investment. "Dieselgate" was a huge value builder for the owners.

Yep, the cars were great and more than once I questioned my decision to sell the car back to VW. In the end the fact that the cars needed to be modified in order to pass emissions testing and that the car's performance would be downgraded because of the 'fix' and the reliability was in question, that's why I sold it back. Plus they gave me a VERY nice price on the buy back. $$$
 
Yep, the cars were great and more than once I questioned my decision to sell the car back to VW. In the end the fact that the cars needed to be modified in order to pass emissions testing and that the car's performance would be downgraded because of the 'fix' and the reliability was in question, that's why I sold it back. Plus they gave me a VERY nice price on the buy back. $$$
Was the "fix" mandatory by EPA? If I had a TDI which had passed annual state inspection in previous years in Texas, I don't see I'd have problems to pass it again for the next several years even if I opted not to do any "fix"?
 
Yep, the cars were great and more than once I questioned my decision to sell the car back to VW. In the end the fact that the cars needed to be modified in order to pass emissions testing and that the car's performance would be downgraded because of the 'fix' and the reliability was in question, that's why I sold it back. Plus they gave me a VERY nice price on the buy back. $$$

That makes sense. I didn't know that keeping it would have entailed mechanical uncertainty.
 
Was the "fix" mandatory by EPA? If I had a TDI which had passed annual state inspection in previous years in Texas, I don't see I'd have problems to pass it again for the next several years even if I opted not to do any "fix"?

Reading an article on consumer reports, these cars are unlikely to fail emissions test at the state level, as state tests are not as sophisticated as EPA testing. But, there is a recall schedule, although i am sure there is no way to mandate people get their cars fixed.

It appears you could continue to drive it as is, but your car is polluting at a rate of 20-40x of what it should be. And likely resale will be a problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if states didn't allow these cars to be titled in the future without showing the recall work was performed.
 
Yep CX-5's SkyActiv-Drive transmission definitely is not sealed. Sealed transmission would be like the one in my BMW 528i and VW Passat, there's no drain plug and ATF dipstick.

If I were you I'd write an email back to Lexi mentioning this and asking for free extended transmission warranty if you following her recommendation not to change your "lifetime" ATF! ;)

BMW's transmission is not sealed... they have a drain plug and the pan is removable..
 
BMW's transmission is not sealed... they have a drain plug and the pan is removable..
My 2000 BMW 528i with GM 5-speed Steptronic transmission doesnt have a drain plug, and the Servicd Manual says the ATF is lifetime, and theres no ATF change interval.

My 2001.5 VW Passat GLX V6 has 5-speed manual, but the auto tranny on the same MY has 5-speed Tiptronc transmission and theres no drain plug either. The same VW claims it has lifetime ATF and no replacement is required.

Not only the ATF pan is removable for any automatic transmissions, so as every other parts can be removed from transmission. (boom07)
 
I had been thinking about this same issue of transmission fluid change as I like to be diligent about maintenance and initially though of this as just to make the car look cheaper to maintain. But the argument and logic Unobtanium uses relating to the arguments either way being theoretical is compelling. Also, in my case it's unlikely I'll keep this car to much past 100k anyway as I'll want whatever is new eventually. Also, as heat is the main killer of ATF as far as I understand keeping the torque converter locked probably makes a dramatic difference in how long the fluid lasts so it seems logical Mazda decided if the fluid will last well north of 150k without any problems then that's "lifetime". Ford calls the timing belt in the 1.6 engine in the Fiesta I used to own lifetime but also did define lifetime as 150k miles.

My other car is a VW GTI with the DSG and given that's a wet clutch setup where the fluid overtime will be holding worn clutch material it makes sense that would need to be refreshed to prevent it from becoming abrasive. VW recommends ever 40k and I'll do that.

It's my understanding the other clutches in an more traditional auto are performing a role similar to synchros in a manual so that wear and contamination is probably negligible and handled by the filter.

I think I'm just going to not worry about it with the CX-5 unless we do see a trend indicating they will likely fail under 150k a fluid change is not done at some interval.
 
I had been thinking about this same issue of transmission fluid change as I like to be diligent about maintenance and initially though of this as just to make the car look cheaper to maintain. But the argument and logic Unobtanium uses relating to the arguments either way being theoretical is compelling. Also, in my case it's unlikely I'll keep this car to much past 100k anyway as I'll want whatever is new eventually. Also, as heat is the main killer of ATF as far as I understand keeping the torque converter locked probably makes a dramatic difference in how long the fluid lasts so it seems logical Mazda decided if the fluid will last well north of 150k without any problems then that's "lifetime". Ford calls the timing belt in the 1.6 engine in the Fiesta I used to own lifetime but also did define lifetime as 150k miles.

My other car is a VW GTI with the DSG and given that's a wet clutch setup where the fluid overtime will be holding worn clutch material it makes sense that would need to be refreshed to prevent it from becoming abrasive. VW recommends ever 40k and I'll do that.

It's my understanding the other clutches in an more traditional auto are performing a role similar to synchros in a manual so that wear and contamination is probably negligible and handled by the filter.

I think I'm just going to not worry about it with the CX-5 unless we do see a trend indicating they will likely fail under 150k a fluid change is not done at some interval.

Well, I owned my last car through 300,000 miles, so I have a vested interest in making my CX-5 last just as long and making sure I am doing the fluid changes when I need to. I am not in the business of buying new cars every few years.

But for folks in your camp, that does make sense.
 
Well, I owned my last car through 300,000 miles, so I have a vested interest in making my CX-5 last just as long and making sure I am doing the fluid changes when I need to. I am not in the business of buying new cars every few years.

But for folks in your camp, that does make sense.
This "lifetime" ATF thing is not just Mazda, but many other auto-makers claiming the same. I'd assum if one who prepares keeping cars only a few years under 100K miles, most likely the factory ATF should have no problem to handle it. The problem falls to the following owners who are at no-win situation as it's too risky to change ATF at that stage, but not changing it who knows how long this "lifetime" ATF can last?

I'd change ATF on my CX-5 around 50K+ miles. Even if for some reason I don't keep my CX-5 as long as I can like my other vehicles, the next owner still can have a chance running the CX-5 for many more miles with more ATF changes. Chances are the reputation of reliability on Mazda should improve because of it.
 
Well, I owned my last car through 300,000 miles, so I have a vested interest in making my CX-5 last just as long and making sure I am doing the fluid changes when I need to. I am not in the business of buying new cars every few years.

But for folks in your camp, that does make sense.

I understand your viewpoint. With the Ford dual clutch our Fiesta has they also said lifetime fluid. However like the timing belt the interval was 150k. This is different from the DSG obviously as they are using a dry clutch setup so no friction material needs to be dealt with in the fluid.

That car was traded for the CX-5 so I never got high enough in miles to worry.

I think as long as you use the exact fluid and it’s done properly changing can’t hurt. I’d definitely have a professional shop do it though as I agree that procedure sound intimidating.
 
Still, yrwei has a point. I feel bad for anyone buying these vehicles after you guys unload them :p
 
This "lifetime" ATF thing is not just Mazda, but many other auto-makers claiming the same. I'd assum if one who prepares keeping cars only a few years under 100K miles, most likely the factory ATF should have no problem to handle it. The problem falls to the following owners who are at no-win situation as it's too risky to change ATF at that stage, but not changing it who knows how long this "lifetime" ATF can last?

I'd change ATF on my CX-5 around 50K+ miles. Even if for some reason I don't keep my CX-5 as long as I can like my other vehicles, the next owner still can have a chance running the CX-5 for many more miles with more ATF changes. Chances are the reputation of reliability on Mazda should improve because of it.

Yep, this "lifetime' thing goes back many decades, and the arguments to change or not to change go back just as long.
 
Still, yrwei has a point. I feel bad for anyone buying these vehicles after you guys unload them :p

I don’t know about that. If you’re running a high mileage car (defined as over 150k) I think you need to be prepared for things wearing out and repairs associated.
 
Yep, this "lifetime' thing goes back many decades, and the arguments to change or not to change go back just as long.
Many people who are against changing the ATF is because they've seen failures one too many after the ATF change. But I truly believe the failure is caused by either using the non-compatible ATF which would have to mix with the same amount of old fluid couldn't be drained out, or changing the ATF too late!

They're too many people don't realize ATF change is different from any other oil / fluid changes. There're too much old fluid would stay in the torque converter and valve body, and we can never get those out even if we take the ATF pan down. Mixing half of the non-compatible or different brand of fresh ATF with old fluid definitely would cause problems. I'll always use OEM ATF doing ATF change!
 
Another fluid that’s not in the schedule that you should change is brake fluid. I do not understand why it’s not scheduled in the US but is elsewhere. Just check the schedule for a CX-5 in Mexico! Also most European auto makers have it in theirs. VW says after 3 years then every two independent of miles.

The reason is that brake fluid is hygroscopic and it’s boiling point will lower over time. The introduced water can also promote corrosion in your braking components.
 
Another fluid thats not in the schedule that you should change is brake fluid. I do not understand why its not scheduled in the US but is elsewhere. Just check the schedule for a CX-5 in Mexico! Also most European auto makers have it in theirs. VW says after 3 years then every two independent of miles.

The reason is that brake fluid is hygroscopic and its boiling point will lower over time. The introduced water can also promote corrosion in your braking components.
Absolutely agree!

However I haven't changed the brake fluid once on my 1998 Honda CR-V with 180,678 miles due to my laziness and it's not listed on maintenance schedule. But I have changed its ATF 4 times as this service is much easier to do on CR-V than CX-5, and it's listed on maintenance schedule. :)
 
I'm a brand-new member, first post here. I like to do regular maintenance, mostly oil changes, occasional transmission fluid changes, brakes, coolant. Hoping to listen and learn, contribute what I can.

I'd like to change the transmission fluid on a soon-to-be in-the-family 2018 Cx-5, even as early as the one year mark, 15~20K kms. And from then on, longer intervals, maybe even one more around 80K kms, and call it good. I've found the procedure here:

http://www.mcx5.org/automatic_transaxle_fluid_atf_replacement_fw6_a_el_fw6_ax_el_-1005.html

In the above, step 6 indicates a "resupply amount" of 3.5-4.9 liters. That's pretty vague.

Then, to get the fluid level correct, there's this "adjustment" instruction:

http://www.mcx5.org/automatic_transaxle_fluid_atf_adjustment_fw6_a_el_fw6_ax_el_-1003.html

In the above, step 3(a) indicates to: "Connect the M-MDS to the DLC-2 and display the PID TFT". Uh-oh: that doesn't bode well for the lowly DIY'r? I'm guessing that this entails some Mazda proprietary software, that allow the engine to run in some mode, that's needed to stabilize the fluid level for the check?

Right now, my best bet, possibly only bet, would be to carefully measure what drains, add exactly the same amount, and pray I've got it right.

That's not the way I like to do it though. As a counterpoint, with my Prius, the drill is:

1. Remove fill and drain bolts, let the fluid drain out. (engine off)
2. Replace the drain bolt, and with the car raised and level, fill fluid through the fill hole, till it starts coming back out.
3. Install fill bolt. :)

Toyota says the Prius transaxle fluid is "lifetime" too, fwiw. But the Repair Manual has the instruction, roughly per the above.
 
Last edited:
You can always weigh the fluid as well to get an accurate picture of what was removed and what you need to replace... then temp isn't relevant.

 
Back