CX-5 Cylinder deactivation

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If Mazda really did every possible long-term test in everyday environment, how come they didnt catch engine vibration issue on Gen-2 CX-5 which happens only below -25C/-13F, especially Mazda has an indoor climate testing lab for cold weather testing to -40F?

Not to mention Mazda has been very good to provide many technical documents explaining their unique designs to overcome any potential issues such as their high-compression SkyActiv-G engines、SktActiv-Drive transmission、and even i-stop. But we havent seen anything special on cylinder deactivation from Mazda to explain how are they going to prevent the common issues inherited from cylinder deactivation.
 
yrwei52 said:
If Mazda really did every possible long-term test in everyday environment, how come they didn’t catch engine vibration issue on Gen-2 CX-5 which happens only below -25C/-13F, especially Mazda has an indoor climate testing lab for cold weather testing to -40F?
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Thorough testing doesn't imply infallible testing. Likewise, a failure doesn't imply there was a lack of testing.
Anyway, we're just speculating about the cause of the cold vibration issue at this point.
 
As mentioned before, think these concerns should really be taken to Mazda HQ.

The bulk of consumers aren't concerned with cylinder deactivation. Only seems some people here.

They will continue to buy the CX-5 until heaven forbid something major happens or they completely move away from what has made the CX-5 a good SUV, not to mention number 1 SUV here in OZ since around 2013.
 
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Anchorman said:
Absolutely, of course they tested it. I can’t believe the level of misconception about vehicle testing that goes on.

When a manufacturer introduces a product they are driven by several factors. Sometimes costs and sometimes necessity (legislation). I doubt there are any cost savings but it will help them meet the legal requirements for emissions. A knock improvement in fuel economy will appeal to buyers and help stay abreast of the competition. They have to assess the risk as well. Failure of the level the pundits predict here would outweigh any benefit and they don’t need the advice of a fella down the pub. They will run engines to destruction on banks of dynamometers - engines that are embedded with dozens of sensors and they can measure the possibility of sticking piston rings and valve damage or whatever else the others have failed at. They run these engines under so much load that the exhaust manifold and the first yard of exhaust glow orange, they can make the dyno run the engine as it would in overrun - this is the prime condition for sucking oil into the upper cylinder via piston rings or valve stems. Once they have done their level best to break them under test conditions, they put them into cars and try again. They freeze them in the arctic and cook them in the desert. They will run them in the most abusive conditions in overloaded cars. They can do it on cars that are out validating brakes and suspension etc and there might be 40 cars out on durability. If there is a risk they need to understand it.

Then somebody suggests that they failed to fulfill 40k on one car. It really is a complete lack of understanding of how these things are done.
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(2thumbs)
 
yrwei52 said:
If Mazda really did every possible long-term test in everyday environment, how come they didn’t catch engine vibration issue on Gen-2 CX-5 which happens only below -25C/-13F, especially Mazda has an indoor climate testing lab for cold weather testing to -40F?

Not to mention Mazda has been very good to provide many technical documents explaining their unique designs to overcome any potential issues such as their high-compression SkyActiv-G engines、SktActiv-Drive transmission、and even i-stop. But we haven’t seen anything special on cylinder deactivation from Mazda to explain how are they going to prevent the common issues inherited from cylinder deactivation.
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How do you know they didn’t? Until we know what causes it we won’t know what the fix is. So far we’ve got a handful of reports on a forum that naturally attracts negative comments (it’s the first people look just like they do when they are convinced trapped wind is a heart attack). Are we basing our conclusions on these three or four concerns when we don’t know how the thousands of new CX-5s that have been sold into these very cold climates around the world behave. There might be something but it is usually followed very quickly by a TSB to advise the dealer Network how to nip in the bud either by education or a service fix. I’m subscribed to global TSBs and so far nothing. I can tell you from experience in testing brakes that although you don’t waste time responding to field complaints, you certainly don’t run round like a headless chicken. Conjecture doesn’t cut it in a test environment.
 
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shadonoz said:
Thorough testing doesn't imply infallible testing. Likewise, a failure doesn't imply there was a lack of testing.
Anyway, we're just speculating about the cause of the cold vibration issue at this point.
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And any thorough testing doesnt equal to real-world experience. Unless Mazda did a test on CX-5 with CD driving for 60K+ miles in real world environment, none of the simulated tests would prove Mazdas CD wont have any long-term issues like everybody else. Mazda simply cant magically resolve the inherited issues on CD without doing anything to prevent it.

We dont need to speculate the cause of the cold vibration issue, but the fact that its happening proves any thorough testing done by Mazda has failed to catch the issue. Which also proves that any thorough testing done by Mazda for CD may not be sufficient to catch issues, especially these issues take time and mileage to show up.
 
Anchorman said:
How do you know they didnt? Until we know what causes it we wont know what the fix is. So far weve got a handful of reports on a forum that naturally attracts negative comments (its the first people look just like they do when they are convinced trapped wind is a heart attack). Are we basing our conclusions on these three or four concerns when we dont know how the thousands of new CX-5s that have been sold into these very cold climates around the world behave. There might be something but it is usually followed very quickly by a TSB to advise the dealer Network how to nip in the bud either by education or a service fix. Im subscribed to global TSBs and so far nothing. I can tell you from experience in testing brakes that although you dont waste time responding to field complaints, you certainly dont run round like a headless chicken. Conjecture doesnt cut it in a test environment.
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Precisely. And the lesson to be learned is: DON'T TRAP YOUR WIND!
 
They’ve magically resolved oil dilution on the Diesel engine when as far as I know none of the many other manufacturers that use post injection method of exhaust regeneration have. Now it might be that one of the piston makers has made a breakthrough and we have seen an end to the problem but it just so happens that the problems I’ve read arising from cylinder deactivation are concentrated around the piston rings under negative pressure. Sometimes one breakthrough solves another. We’ll have to see - you might be able to rub my nose in it by the end of the year.
 
Anchorman said:
How do you know they didnt? Until we know what causes it we wont know what the fix is. So far weve got a handful of reports on a forum that naturally attracts negative comments (its the first people look just like they do when they are convinced trapped wind is a heart attack). Are we basing our conclusions on these three or four concerns when we dont know how the thousands of new CX-5s that have been sold into these very cold climates around the world behave. There might be something but it is usually followed very quickly by a TSB to advise the dealer Network how to nip in the bud either by education or a service fix. Im subscribed to global TSBs and so far nothing. I can tell you from experience in testing brakes that although you dont waste time responding to field complaints, you certainly dont run round like a headless chicken. Conjecture doesnt cut it in a test environment.
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MazMik said:
This is a response I got when I contacted Mazda


"The engineers have come to the conclusion of one main engine mount which is being compromised by the cold which is basically freezing the rubber internally which allows for severe vibrations and noise.

We have seen that once the engine mount returns to a certain temperature that the driving functionality returns back to an original state. The vehicle is perfectly safe to drive so I would not be concerned. It is strictly just an inconvenience due to noise and vibration."
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And your point is? I’m not sure who posted but when I asked specifically if it stopped when the engine was hot he said no so this doesn’t stack up. In any case I would want to know exactly who mazda is. Is it the dealer or is it somebody else? Is this an official mazda statement or the posters interpretation of a phone call. The earlier statement said oil in the mounting was freezing now this one says the rubber is freezing, which is it or are “mazda” saying two different things.
 
Testing is not a definitive science. Anything can be tested in all kinds of conditions and situations and then once the products go out for general use, some things will crop up. Look at manufacturers of jet aircraft engines who must abide by strict tolerances and construction and assembly methods. Checks and double checks. Yet there are stories of certain engines that have early failures. Certain engines on the early Airbus 380 aircraft had problems. The prime example is the Qantas 380 that blew a engine over Malaysia. Eventually all those planes got new engines.

From what I have read and heard, Mazda tests vehicles and parts in Japan and also tests completed vehicles on the streets of So California and the mountains of Colorado. They get driven in the high altitude and deep snow of Crested Butte and in the Mohave desert.

Sometimes things appear that did not show themselves in testing and trials. Blaming Mazda for not testing enough is just more negative blather. If you don’t like the vehicle or the company then you should sell it and move on.
 
Mazda released the SkyActiv DIESEL a few years ago and it was a COMPLETE DISASTER. Go on the forums and read the comments. The diesels were dumping fuel into the crankcase causing so many problems. It was so bad that Mazda stopped production until it could figure out the problem.

Didn't Mazda test the diesel before releasing it into public use?

Apparently not enough testing was done and Mazda found out the hard way something was engineered incorrectly. Who paid the price? Not Mazda, the poor guinea pig customers who bought diesels to only have them have constant problems.

So that is my point. CD is a new tech for Mazda on SkyActiv engines. It's an unnecessary tech since it only saves 1MPG but causes way more potential long term issues as other CD engines have. I really hope CD works flawlessly, as I love Mazda cars, I just bought a 2017 CX5 and I owned a 2016 CX5 and 2 other Mazda vehicles.

I am loyal but I don't have blind loyalty. Hence my reason for buying a 2017. I am cautious, just as I would be with the HCCI engine when it comes out. Let it circulate for 2+ years before I am sold on HCCI or CD, or any new tech that hasn't seen real life testing.
 
Actually it was oil issues not fuel.

Problem got resolved. Later half of KE diesels had next to no issues.

Where is this claim about halting diesel production (uhm) Cursory Google search brings nothing up

P.S - wasn't a complete disaster. You want complete disaster, try dieselgate and how much VW got hit for it (they set aside $18 billion to deal with it). Mazda didn't get hit anywhere near this, probably not even a few % of VW's amount
 
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Stuff happens but it's not the end of the world.

Past issues doesn't necessarily mean they will happen again
 
Lbear said:
I am loyal but I don't have blind loyalty. Hence my reason for buying a 2017. I am cautious, just as I would be with the HCCI engine when it comes out. Let it circulate for 2+ years before I am sold on HCCI or CD, or any new tech that hasn't seen real life testing.
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A wise policy for ANY product with new tech, at least the first year. Those failures happen time and again, but certainly not always. Some people can tolerate more risk, and get away with it just fine.

I wasn't aware of CD on the 18 when I got my 17, but if I had, I definitely would have gotten the 17 anyway. I just couldn't wait, and now I'm glad I didn't.
 
Xeler8ing said:
Stuff happens but it's not the end of the world.

Past issues doesn't necessarily mean they will happen again
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But the owners have to deal with that stuff. Warranty or not, it's a hassle at best.
 
shadonoz said:
But the owners have to deal with that stuff. Warranty or not, it's a hassle at best.
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It's the same when you buy anything. Some owners will have issues, others won't. That is life.

If massive amount of customers have issues then yes it is a hassle and who ever the company is deserves to be canned be it in courts, reputation, financially etc.

As stated previously, Mazda has to be aware of past CD issues and if they haven't solved them then they are stupid, short sighted and ignorant to introduce this technology.

They are a small independent company who don't have vast amounts of cash reserves like VW to deal with any potential claims

If they go down the stupid path similar to what Mitsubishi did when they lied about defects for 30 years and came to light in the early 2000s, got heavily penalised and were subsequently taken over by Renault/Nissan, then Mazda can go ahead because I am sure some larger manufacturer (Hello Toyota?) would come in and buy a decent stake and they won't be independent anymore.

Finally it is coming to pretty much their entire 2.5L range - Mazda 6 is getting it, Mazda CX-5 has got it and I am pretty sure the last remaining vehicle which has the 2.5L as an option will get it sooner of later... the Mazda 3. It's pretty much a done deal.
 
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yrwei52 said:
Thats why Im concerned on long-term reliability after warranty expired with cylinder deactivation, especially the end result is only 1 MPG gain on FWD and ZERO MPG gain on AWD!
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Would this be covered under the lifetime powertrain warranty?
 
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