2017 Signature lemon?
- Thread starter tc1668
- Start date
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- Mazda CX-9 2012 Grand Touring FWD
First, it's not Mazda's fault you ran out of gas, it's yours. No gas gauge/warning light/range indicator is 100% accurate. My 2012 CX-9 manual states "The fuel gauge shows approximately [emphasis added] how much fuel is remaining in the tank when the ignition is switched on. We receommend keepting the tank over 1/4 full." I imagine the 2017 manual says pretty much the same thing.
Personally, I don't trust fuel gauges/range indicators that much. Every time I fill the car, I reset one of the trip meters, and know that driving around town, I should be able to drive around 300 miles before refilling, 400 on the highway. This Friday night, I had about a third of a tank when I started my commute home, my preferred gas station is across the street from my work, so figured I'd fill up on Monday morning. I ran more errands in the car over the weekend than I anticipated and as I got close to work on Monday the warning light came on. When I filled up at the gas station, it took 17.102 gallons in a 21 gallon tank. That is the second time I've had the light come on, having owned the car three years and driven it about 28,000 miles. Playing chicken with the gas gauge is like asking the fuel pump to burn out.
Fill the gas tank at 1/4 full as Mazda advises and quit calling your car a lemon.
Personally, I don't trust fuel gauges/range indicators that much. Every time I fill the car, I reset one of the trip meters, and know that driving around town, I should be able to drive around 300 miles before refilling, 400 on the highway. This Friday night, I had about a third of a tank when I started my commute home, my preferred gas station is across the street from my work, so figured I'd fill up on Monday morning. I ran more errands in the car over the weekend than I anticipated and as I got close to work on Monday the warning light came on. When I filled up at the gas station, it took 17.102 gallons in a 21 gallon tank. That is the second time I've had the light come on, having owned the car three years and driven it about 28,000 miles. Playing chicken with the gas gauge is like asking the fuel pump to burn out.
Fill the gas tank at 1/4 full as Mazda advises and quit calling your car a lemon.
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Guest2017
"Dealer told me..." Then you don't need much more evidence for not believing the claim. Think about it. 40 to go from that position represents about 12% of total range. It does not take much to realize just how 'full' of it the "dealer" was when they told you that. That leaves about 310 visually distributed over the rest of the gauge with marks for fuel quantity. This would cause a skewing of the gauge and remove the uniform placement of each mark - extending the distance between each mark from "F" to "E" - yet, we don't see that on the gauge itself. The gauge marks are indeed uniform and for a good reason.
I'd say the dealer was 'full of it'. No pun.
G
Guest2017
If fuel stops flowing at 1/4 tank, that's a lemon. I've been buying new vehicles for more than 3 decades and never had one that cut fuel deliver because the tank was drained while showing 1/4 full. That's not even close to fulfilling the promise behind the word "approximately." We all assume the technical differentiation to be that when the needle reaches or touches any part of the "E," then its probably time to locate a pump. However, a reasonable expectation of the technical differentiation between flat out bone dry and "approximately" empty, should probably not be taking place anywhere near the 1/4 marking.
Now, if I'm driving at altitude (elevations above 4,000) then I'd be interesting in knowing whether "E" is truly Empty, or flat out bone dry (maybe somebody who lives up there can help out here). but, other than that a 1/4 tank needle on the gauge should not give me cause to feel a refuel is absolutely imminent right this second, or run the risk of calling road service that day. It is just not the expectation that I have for any vehicle I've ever owned, so I'm cutting the OP some slack on that basis alone.
Now, if this were a fuel gauge on a vintage aircraft, I'd be singing a completely different tune entirely because its a completely different fuel gauge technology. Heck, for that matter, even if it were a modern general aviation aircraft, I'd be vary wary of anything close to 1/4 tank indication. But, a modern day vehicle, if it were not a lemon, would not or should not have that same "characteristic."
Another point - if the range indicator says something like 10 miles to empty, then the gauge is already sitting on E.
Before range estimators, one wouldn't be surprised if you ran out of gas sitting on E. Now because the computer estimates a range, people feel they can run it right to the end.
I don't even have the range gauge displayed in mine.
Before range estimators, one wouldn't be surprised if you ran out of gas sitting on E. Now because the computer estimates a range, people feel they can run it right to the end.
I don't even have the range gauge displayed in mine.
If fuel stops flowing at 1/4 tank, then maybe that vehicle has a problem....that can most likely be fixed very easily......and you think this makes it a lemon?
Give me a break.
A car that's in the shop for a few months with broken transmissions and blown engines...that's a lemon.
A flaky gas gauge? Lemon?
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- Plano, Texas, USA
Yeah youre the one said it correctly. All of those talks in this thread getting the fuel before of the gas left in the tank is simply just a myth. The auxiliary fuel pump, or low-pressure fuel pump in Mazdas term, is sitting inside of gas tank and is cooled by fuel its pumping, as it half of the time isnt submerged under the fuel due to its higher location on fuel sending unit. The pick-up point is away from the bottom of the gas tank hence the pump wont suck into any foreign objects easily even if the fuel level is very low. If the auxiliary fuel pump really needs to rely on submerging under the fuel to cool down, what should we do to cool down the main fuel pump, or high-pressure fuel pump, which is sitting outside of the fuel tank and is doing the most of pumping work?
DBLXX did a full fill to dry tank drive test a while ago for his 2016 CX-5 Sport FWD. It went 62 miles PAST when it initially said "0 miles to Empty." This should be expected by most vehicles but apparently not on CX-9. This raised a question, why Mazda wants CX-9 to be different from everybody else on Range to Empty, including its sibling CX-5 if CX-9s Range to Empty is really that critical with no margin to error?
I was amazed that many people here only criticize OP who waited too long to get gas, but ignore the fact that the first time when it happened OPs CX-9 showed 120 miles to empty and caught him by surprise. If the problem on OPs 2nd incident is due to a totally dry tank, Id still blame it on Mazda as why a vehicle would run out of the gas when the range still showed 6 miles and it wont happen to any other vehicles. The 3rd time, it proves OPs CX-9 did have problems again and Mazda North American Operations agreed and replaced high-pressure fuel pump! OPs negligence? Definitely not! Calling MNAO Customer Experience Center? Definitely is fine as that is what CEC there for; especially OP didnt even get a loaner car during a week long repair!
1st full fill to dry tank drive
Full fill up (to the top of the filler neck) to 62 miles PAST when it initially said "0 miles to empty."
516 miles in total
No, at least in Car and Driver Long-Term Road Test case, the fuel gauge is NOT already sitting on E.
View attachment 218328
Yeah it is
Never has the expression "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." been more appropriate.
Or maybe this expression: "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result."
Get gas when it says 30 miles remaining. Problem solved.
This forum has jumped the shark.
Or maybe this expression: "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result."
Get gas when it says 30 miles remaining. Problem solved.
This forum has jumped the shark.
G
Guest2018
As an engineer, I honestly have to say that's just not good enough. I can't stomach that kind of error rate. I don't have it in my 2018 and I cannot condone it in the OPs vehicle. As I stated before, it is just too far off. This swings in the opposite direction that other people are reporting in other threads where they chime in with a nice Reserve beyond the needle first coming in contact with the "E" marking.
If it were something significantly below 30 miles, yeah. But, as a design engineer, I would not accept this. As a customer/owner, I would definitely be concerned and searching for a fix, if one existed. If no fix existed, in all honesty, this would be a game changer for me. That coming from a guy who absolutely adored his 2017 Sig and now adores his 2018 Sig to boot.
This needs a fix.
G
Guest2018
Which is why my first post to the OP was: https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/sho...nature-lemon&p=6565464&viewfull=1#post6565464
I think the OP has confirmed that there is indeed a problem with his CX-9. Now, the question is how soon can Mazda fix it - or will Mazda fix it at all. Again, we are dealing with the mass production environment and in such a caldron, there will be anomalies like this and others. Having said that, both Baby and Bath Water should remain together.
I can feel the OP's pain because I've been there with GM on a similar matter with their flagship Corvette back in 2000. But, in that case, a larger number of C5 owners were reporting the same exact issue while being stranded in diverse places in the US with plenty of fuel in the tank. Turned out to be a bad design and GM never admitted it until the C6 came out. By then it was too late. I had already made my decision to shed GM forever - all because of the way they mismanaged the poor design fix and their attitude towards taking responsibility for bad designs in general. As an engineer, I could not tolerate such an attitude towards your own work product.
This was no small matter for me personally. The Corvette had a special place in my life of vehicle ownership. A place that not even Ferrari could occupy fully (though I'd be very happy with a Prancing Horse). I just saw my first C8 Corvette and it hurts - it really hurts. I love that car, but I cannot ever trust GM again - unless the internal management of the entire organization is reborn into a new life, a new attitude and a new belief system about its customers.
I want desperately to be able to go back home, but I can't. Not to the same dysfunctional household of GM. Not until that household changes. Maybe one day I can return home. So, I certainly feel the OPs pain and I remember it well. Too well, in fact.
