[DEFUNCT] The College-Budget P5

I've been so preoccupied with school...but I just finished my final today! That leaves me plenty of time to get more hours at work.

An update about my car's oil will come soon--it's finally getting dark, so I'll go change it before long.

Today, however, I did something stupid and dangerous while driving home, and have been reminded of the value this car holds to me. I gotta share this.

Seeing a green arrow midway down the offramp left turn, I didn't want to get stuck, so I gunned it. Not a problem, as I know my car's limits thanks to the new wheels, tires, and newfound racing experience. As I crossed the stopline into the clear intersection with the yellow arrow above me, I immediately lost traction in my rear wheels pre-apex, and then lost all traction about the apex. The road wasn't completely paved yet; I forgot it was covered in loose gravel. Without any grip at all, I got lucky and allowed my muscle memory to save me and my car. I let of the gas, counter steered as smoothly as possible, didn't overcorrect (too much...still oscillated a little), and kept off the pedals until I knew for sure I regained grip up front. It was ******* wild, and felt like it lasted for ages rather that what could've been a couple seconds. I never ever felt the rear get out nearly to that magnitude before, but s*** I'm glad nothing's broken.

Don't be an idiot like me and gun it through an unfinished road!

Awesome build a lot of good info. It's amazing what a little seat time in a race can teach you for car control in a hairy situation. With my Rallycross Protege I have rear stiffer Springs and the rear strut bar and my car overseers more than under understeers on the dirt. But there has been times where I have all front grip and no rear grip and spun the car out.

Voodoofury said:

Awesome build a lot of good info. It's amazing what a little seat time in a race can teach you for car control in a hairy situation. With my Rallycross Protege I have rear stiffer Springs and the rear strut bar and my car overseers more than under understeers on the dirt. But there has been times where I have all front grip and no rear grip and spun the car out.

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It really is profound how much better you can react just be learning how your car handles at the limits of grip, isn't it? I'm pretty sure that if this would've happened some years ago, I would've instinctively slammed the brakes instead, which probably would've sent the rear out even harder. Regardless though, I can't be an impatient jackass on the road...you can race all you like, but caution and obeying speed limits on the road are what keep you legal!

Rally cross must be tons of fun. I've always wondered what it's like to race with an almost non-stop smaller coefficient of friction. I'd imagine you gotta pull off Scandinavian flicks and "turn" with the gas and brake pedals in low-speed corners, huh?

Slightly Less BLACK

Changed the oil again; it took a significantly longer time for it to get dark.

It came out MOSTLY BLACK



The picture doesn't do justice to the subtlety of the color. It was still somewhat "fresh" looking, but was definitely darkened. I'm very interested in how long this next cycle will take to darken!

While I was under there, looking at the nasty underside of the transaxle inspired me to see if cleaning it was possible. It was coated in dirt and oil sediments (left over from the CV axle seal leak this thing had, and perhaps some other leak from before I owned it). I went to work with a wire brush, and while getting absolutely coated in gross s***, I successfully removed the worst of it. I think I'll go back under there someday to do a more detailed job, but until then, it's pretty good.

Looking more at my undercarriage makes me wish I had more cash to throw at the car. This thing's just asking to get a full set of Tokicos + Springs or coilovers. I've really been leaning towards getting Tokicos lately, since coilover prices + alignment are big $$$. At the very least, perhaps Illuminas in the front or rear with blues on the opposite side. Probably makes more sense to have the adjustables in the rear. Although I did have a crazy low-priced offer for Yellowspeeds, I decided that it's probably not a good idea for me to go after them if I don't know the mileage on them (roughly 20k miles + ??? miles). The "Honda boys" I met from the previous time attack warned against doing so, since a coilover rebuild is stupidly expensive, and if rust is on them, that can also complicate things.

Well, I am on my two weeks off before school starts again, so at the very least, I'll continue this oil treatment. If I get the time to get another (non busted) upper intake manifold half from the junkyard, I can definitely do the VTCS removal. that MP3 ECU's been sitting in my room, encased in its packaging. I guess I just gotta work up the balls to take apart my functional car to perform this IM swap. Don't know why I'm somewhat apprehensive about doing this, since to my knowledge, just doing the upper half of the IM is simple. Just detach the fuel rail, move some lines around, and there you go, right?

Well, I gotta sleep on it until then. One day at a time.

i believe the tokico struts have been discontinued and no one can find them anywhere online at the moment.

323 said:

i believe the tokico struts have been discontinued and no one can find them anywhere online at the moment.

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No kidding?

I was looking on Racing Beat's webstore, and the have both HPs and Illuminas for sale, but by pair only. Perhaps it's not taken down yet?

Shoot, well, either way, I probably won't do any major suspension upgrades for a while. Might just stick to welding some endlink reinforcements onto my rear struts for my swaybar then.

Riot_Polizei said:

No kidding?

I was looking on Racing Beat's webstore, and the have both HPs and Illuminas for sale, but by pair only. Perhaps it's not taken down yet?

Shoot, well, either way, I probably won't do any major suspension upgrades for a while. Might just stick to welding some endlink reinforcements onto my rear struts for my swaybar then.

Click to expand...

I would message them to see if they're in stock if that's the case

Plateaus, Clean Oil, and Exhaust Leaks

Hell of an educational race day today.

Competition grew tighter and tighter over time. More than half of the new folks had their fill and quit; I and the others stayed. As a result, I'm competing with about 22-26 experienced and fast folks in my class. I suppose in one way, this rationalized my falling standings, but really, was that all?

I believe I said this before, but as the events went on, I rose in rank. I went from second-to-last to about 8 up from the bottom. Well, then I went back down to two from the bottom for the last two events. So what's up?

Today was a bit of a turning point. I walked the track with one of the top racers in the league. Real outgoing guy, really competitive. I took his advice for lines, and left the rest up to how my car was handling that day. I adjusted my PSI for the first time (25 front, 28 rear) to improve turn-in, and that worked wonders! I wasn't fighting oversteer so damn much. But alas, I was still stuck at the bottom.

Eventually, the end of the day came. This is when all the scoring is complete, which leaves the uncounted "fun runs" open for all participants. This is when people get ride-alongs or even swap cars.

I talked with the same Honda guys from the last event, and got the chance to pilot an Acura Integra with a GSR motor. I was pretty excited! I never drove a Honda, let alone sat in one. Upon getting in and starting it, I got myself acquainted with the clutch engagement point, and hoped for the best.

BETRAYAL!



I wonder if my car would understand? lol

My goodness, people. Holy s***. I experienced the magic of double wishbone suspension and peaky power and couldn't believe how natural it all felt. The car never fought my inputs and commands! I could just push and push and push it far beyond what my P5 was capable of. The first turn was no problem at all; the double U-turn presented no difficulty. The next turn, which was a decreasing-radius turn, sure as hell wasn't one all of a sudden. Offset slalom? No problem.

You get the idea. I'm ashamed to say it, but it's superior to my car in every and all racing aspects. I beat my best time by four seconds, and was behind the car owner's best time by 5 seconds. He was impressed with my lines and ability to drive it as I did; from that point, I began to develop a bit of a bittersweet feeling.

I had the same guy I walked the course with drive my car, and hot diggity he lambasted my times! He beat them by 2.5-3 seconds each. I made sure to remain observant. He hugged the turns tighter, used less brakes, utilized the more useful RPM range (above 4.5kRPM), and downshifted into first around the tightest hairpins. Our lines were similar, with mine a little messier, but not far off. I then ran again without him with his techniques, and began hitting just slightly slower his times. Consistently, too! Once again, I had this down to a science. But, that bittersweet feeling really revealed itself to me.

I've struck a plateu of car performance. Really, I've gotten fairly competent and consistent at racing, but now, my car is dragging me down. After driving that Integra, it was so sluggish and inflexible. Flooring it trying to redline was an eternity. The weight difference is significant, the stock suspension is restraining, the unwillingness to turn-in...damn it man, my car's a limiting factor! There's only so well I can do. I either got to scrap together a means to push more power, or wait until I can get myself another car. Really, this car's stock suspension isn't too bad, but the biggest weak point is the engine. It can't produce a proportionate amount of power per every pound it carries.

Dangit guys, I'm jaded!

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On the plus side, I'm approaching 50 miles on this oil with seafoam cycle, and the dipstick is reading super clean. I'll change it if/when it darkens this time; I'll wait a maximum of 200 miles. After that, I'll go back to putting good oil in with half a can of seafoam. Pretty glad with how much gunk this stuff is cleaning out.

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Oh, one other thing.

I must've blown something out while racing. On my very last run, as I dumped the clutch and started the heat, I instantly noticed the lawnmower-esque exhaust leak sound as I raced around. Well, looks like I blew something out. Here's hoping it's only an exhaust donut that wasn't cinched down properly, or something...

I did a half-ass check after racing with that noise, so I couldn't pinpoint it exactly. If it's my exhaust manifold, I don't know if I'll be so willing to drop the money for an OBX header replacement.

I'll go under the car tomorrow morning to do a full inspection. Nothing a little soapy water can't help find.

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Dunno guys, I'm somewhat dissuaded from really modifying this car further. Would any further modification really do much of a difference? My car's a bit of a hog in comparison to my competitors. I'm thinking about just welding in some endlink reinforcements to safely install the rear swaybar, getting an IM from the junkyard, installing the MP3 ECU, and just leaving at that. Everything else would either be big money, would change my class, or would ultimately be big investment on a car that couldn't take me too far on the track.

I love this thing as a daily, though. I wouldn't get rid of it just in spite of it's track performance. But man, as I said, it's bittersweet. I've improved a lot as a racer, but now my car's my bottleneck. I'm in quite a bind!

will turboing the car change your class?

Dpwhitehead1 said:

will turboing the car change your class?

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Yes, I would be competing with Focus STs and Golf R32s. Not a good match up for me atm lol!

Also, turbocharging is big $$$ for me at the moment. In regards to money, though, I need to make an update on this crazy ass exhaust leak I just found!

Multi-Point Exhaust Leak

Oh that's not good.

Listen to this crap:


Did the old vacuum-on-blow-through-tailpipe-with-soapy-water trick to find the leaks, and I found them. Three, I believe.

The first was on the pre-cat flange towards the block of the engine (see bubbles):



I believe the flange on the bottom of the precat was also leaking, but I couldn't be sure.

The reason why I couldn't be sure was the massive exhaust leak coming from the precat downpipe/primary cat pipe flange.


That's a nasty leak! It sprayed the water everywhere, and delivered a force greater than a fan towards the front of the car. The perspective opposite to the camera was worse.

Well, that certainly will change how I spend my next two weeks.

I just got done moping about my car's performance plateu. Should I drop the cash for the OBX header to eliminate two leaks?

Is there an aftermarket "downpipe" sort of thing I can get between the precat's downpipe and the primary cat?

What do you guys think?

I just ordered a manzo header off of eBay for $100. It suppose to have the egr bung angled correctly so it will not have fitment issues on install. I*ll take pics of it when it comes in next week.

323 said:

I just ordered a manzo header off of eBay for $100. It suppose to have the egr bung angled correctly so it will not have fitment issues on install. I*ll take pics of it when it comes in next week.

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Manzo header? Haven't heard of that one; good luck with the installation!

yeah, just another brand found on ebay. i'll take pics of the installation whenever i get to it

Riot_Polizei said:

Yes, I would be competing with Focus STs and Golf R32s. Not a good match up for me atm lol!

Also, turbocharging is big $$$ for me at the moment. In regards to money, though, I need to make an update on this crazy ass exhaust leak I just found!

Click to expand...

it's not THAT much money... like 6-700.00 for a stock ish setup.

Cost Analysis, CARB Rant

I've done a bit of research on my options, and here's what I've found in regards to costs:

Cat Elimination:

OBX Header...............$321.99 (Amazon)
Prim Cat....................$177.79 (Rockauto) (no option for a CARB compliant model)
O2 Non Fouler............$10.24 (Amazon)
__________________________________
Total.........................$510.02 (not including shipping; could be lower if I buy header from Ebay)

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Keeping Cat:

Exhaust Mani.............$196.95 (Ebay)
Pre-Cat.....................$270.79 (Rockauto; CARB compliant)
Pre-Cat.....................$141.79 (Rockauto; non-CARB compliant)
Prim-Cat...................$177.79 (Rockauto)
__________________________________
Total........................$645.53 (CARB-compliant) (not including shipping)
...............................$516.53 (Non-CARB compliant) (not including shipping)

And of course, these prices do not take into account the 30-some bucks for new flange gaskets.

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Unless there are better prices elsewhere for cats, I can't believe how much this s***'s going to cost! Looks like in the long run, getting a header is actually cheaper. Makes sense, since I'll have less parts. But, that leaves me with some problems.

See, our State's dumbass Governor made a unilateral decision to fully implement California's SMOG/CARB bulls*** by 2022. Voters had no say in this, and it'll begin the January 1st next year. If I go right ahead and put a header on my car, I most likely will get in trouble for that. Sorry for getting somewhat political on you guys, but damn this just sucks. It's not a righty or lefty thing, it's just some jackass who probably got paid lots of money to pass this crap before his term ends this November. Of course, the most popular candidate at the moment supports CARB and SMOG and wants to see it fully integrated, so that's also an issue. Yet, there's a pretty big backlash against this so far, since unlike California, we actually need our utility vehicles, trucks, jeeps, what have you.

I guess either way, **** California for its SMOG and CARB bulls*** and just how much more I have to pay to contribute to something that chokes my car's power without making a better impact on the planet. I've an IL4, for god's sake.

I'm going to have to bust a move soon. I have this week and next to fix up my car before school starts. Money's tight, so I think I'll actually have to jump on the pre-cat delete option.

What a pain!

If you are dead set on the obx header, they*re a little cheaper on eBay

Never mind. I didn*t see the shipping costs

Don't get discouraged about our cars power. There will always be faster and better cars out there. Are protege handle very well for being ecoboxes. I got to drive a Celica GTS rallycross in the snow and ice and it was awesome 6-speed manual limited slip and the suspension of that is just set up so well. Header will help with throttle response I have a OBX on mine and it seems to be holding up well with rally abuse

323 said:

If you are dead set on the obx header, they*re a little cheaper on eBay

Never mind. I didn*t see the shipping costs

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Actually, I just found https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned) for quite a bit less. Thanks for the heads up!

Voodoofury said:

Don't get discouraged about our cars power. There will always be faster and better cars out there. Are protege handle very well for being ecoboxes. I got to drive a Celica GTS rallycross in the snow and ice and it was awesome 6-speed manual limited slip and the suspension of that is just set up so well. Header will help with throttle response I have a OBX on mine and it seems to be holding up well with rally abuse.

Click to expand...

It does handle far better than the average econobox, but yeah I have to make do with what I have. I was just a little bummed to learn that at that point that it's my car that's holding me back. There are still some power options left: VTCS removal on the IM; installing the MP3 ECU; J-spec intake cam with the corksport exhaust cam; swapping in a lightweight crankshaft pulley; installing the OBX header. Heck, maybe I can even get some adjustable cam gears along with the cams to fine-tune the power, but all this is way farther down the line. It was just so bizarre to me that I walloped my best time so hard in a car I never drove before.

Man, that Celica is sexy! Glad you got to have such a fun experience piloting a finely-tuned machine. Can't wait until I get my P5 to handle as well, if not better.

I just gotta have faith and patience, I suppose.

Now that you are racing have you sign up for mazdamotorsport?