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Thread: CX5 Vs Golf SportWagen 4Motion

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
    Only 30? Wow. Not worth it for the hybrid unless you do all your driving in the city.
    My friend has a Hybrid Rav 4. Living in OR with 65 mph limit, he averages 34-36 on highway drives. Anything faster than that and the extra weight of the batteries/electric... drags down the mpg. Not bad, but my 2.0L manual does 40 mpg at 65.
    I too am not very happy with our limited options in the states. I really did not want a suv/cuv. I wanted a wagon! but nobody makes a decent one. I'm seeing some great luxury wagons coming out, but I'm not buying an Audi/MB/BMW... And the VW's mpg/hp is very inefficient.
    Good luck in your quest, if you can hold off bit longer, maybe the diesels will finally arrive.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoFrogs View Post
    2009 / 2010 SAAB 9-3 Sportcombi Aero... OR 9-5 Sportcombi Aero

    2011 / 2012 AUDI A4 Avant... OR A6 Avant

    oh, wait, are you talking new? my bad...

    I am the current driver of a 2004 GTI w/the (AWP) 1.8t (think 180hp Audi TT FWD) and I have/am seriously considering replacing it w/a Golf Sportwagen S w/4Motion and a 6spd....why...because it is one of the few, if not ONLY wagon (like there are a lot out there) w/a manual.

    I don't need the tarted up All Track and its .5" greater ground clearance over the regular Sportwagen. Granted VW screwed the pooch royally w/their diesel thing, but that doesn't mean they make bad cars; just bad decisions at the highest management levels. I am happy w/mine and know there is a healthy aftermarket to help me enjoy it more.

    My goal for my next car is simple...
    1)Manual
    2)Hatch or Wagon, but willing to compromise for manual transmission
    3)Cloth seats
    4) Profit
    5)Try to keep it under $30k

    Candidates are:
    - Golf Sportwagen S w/ and w/o 4 motion
    - GTI S 4-door
    - Mazda6 Touring (yes a sedan)
    - Mazda3 Touring Hatch
    - Honda Accord Sport 1.5t (yes a sedan)
    - Honda Si 4-door (another sedan)
    - Honda Fit EX

    [see my sig]


    Quote Originally Posted by xtrailman View Post
    Just to rub it in my last cx-5 was a manual awd diesel, but I much prefer my auto awd diesel, which I can use (and do) in manual if I want, and its a dam sight easier to change gear in manual with the auto than with the manual box .
    To the first part:



    ...and the second part:




    Quote Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
    It's built in Germany by Opel, who is part of Groupe PSA now, and then rebadged as a Buick.
    So it's technically not a GM product. I don't know whether that makes you feel any better.
    Still doesn't come with a manual though.
    Fair enough. Won't hurt to have another option to cross-shop/haggle with but I'd wager the CX5 diesel will get better mileage, have more torque, be cheaper to buy and drive better. If I HAVE to buy an auto... it's probably going to be the CX5 diesel.

    Maybe though, if Mazda sees Buick, VW, Subaru et al selling wagons and filling a niche, they'll see fit to make the 6 wagon available here too next generation. They are attempting to move up market to that entry level luxury segment after all (the same Buick thinks it can fill with it's AWD wagon) and it's FULL of wagons from the European companies... Exactly the cars that market demands.

    I honestly think Mazda would do better to embrace their niche-ness in that regard. Be THE company frugal enthusiasts can turn to. By all means have models and equipment options to interest the more mainstream as well (automatic, gas CX5's for all!) but any combination of diesel, manual and wagon-ed vehicles would give them a market almost of their own.

  3. #18
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    '14 liquid CX-5 AWD GT tech, E84 valencia x1 sdrive msport

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    I did (after the post) see that fuelly reports were 32-33 on Rav hybrid w/more than 50% hwy (so meeting/beating epa) vg but not enough to sway me, ditto anything with a CVT- no thanks. 0-60 is actually not bad but braking, handling appear compromised, also heavy:

    CURB WEIGHT: 4003 lb

    C/D TEST RESULTS:
    Zero to 60 mph: 8.3 sec
    Zero to 100 mph: 23.7 sec
    Zero to 110 mph: 31.9 sec
    Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 8.3 sec
    Top gear, 30-50 mph: 4.1 sec
    Top gear, 50-70 mph: 5.3 sec
    Standing ¼-mile: 16.4 sec @ 86 mph
    Top speed (governor limited): 114 mph
    Braking, 70-0 mph: 181 ft
    Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.76 g

    Chevy is pretty damn slow, brakes suck too but that range is dead sexy. Shit guess I'm just getting old

    CURB WEIGHT: 3769 lb

    C/D TEST RESULTS:
    Zero to 60 mph: 9.4 sec
    Zero to 100 mph: 30.8 sec
    Zero to 110 mph: 44.5 sec
    Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 9.9 sec
    Top gear, 30-50 mph: 4.5 sec
    Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.7 sec
    Standing ¼-mile: 17.2 sec @ 80 mph
    Top speed (drag limited): 121 mph
    Braking, 70-0 mph: 182 ft
    Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.77 g
    *stability-control-inhibited

    C/D FUEL ECONOMY:
    Observed: 34 mpg
    75-mph highway driving: 43 mpg
    Highway range: 670 mi
    Last edited by Monterra; 12-15-2017 at 04:57 PM.
    247 community defender of: gen1 steering, styling, seats and gated shifter, compression ignition, rwd, Asian twins, winter tires, manual: tailgates, transmissions, ebrakes, also liquid silver and Lawson's Liquids FTMFW!

    My automotive lineage:
    1983 Toyota Celica GTS 5MT- aka rustback
    1984 Toyota Supra 5MT- change averse much?
    1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo 5MT- good times- newfound respect for term mid-engined oversteer!
    2002 MB C230 Coupe 6MT- 1st new car(chosen over GTI) and a good one until gremlins came
    +nice house/bad driveway
    2006 Acura TL 6MT (shortest ownership by far 1year of tq steer&driveway fails>enough)
    2007 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L -not much to say boring excellence?
    2009 BMW 128i 6MT - End of the old-school bimmers probably should have kept.. wanted 4drs
    2014 Mazda CX-5 AWD GT - what can I say not so boring excellence? I continue to be impressed.
    2015 BMW X1 RWD Msport - Its got 4drs, I like it, fast enough and it still does donuts, e-steering won't let me love it

  4. #19
    Registered Member Kaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbslc View Post
    My friend has a Hybrid Rav 4. Living in OR with 65 mph limit, he averages 34-36 on highway drives. Anything faster than that and the extra weight of the batteries/electric... drags down the mpg. Not bad, but my 2.0L manual does 40 mpg at 65.
    I too am not very happy with our limited options in the states. I really did not want a suv/cuv. I wanted a wagon! but nobody makes a decent one. I'm seeing some great luxury wagons coming out, but I'm not buying an Audi/MB/BMW... And the VW's mpg/hp is very inefficient.
    Good luck in your quest, if you can hold off bit longer, maybe the diesels will finally arrive.
    Really - seeing all the quotes about 2.0L mpg - It might be a great buy in a few years to come. My 2nd car is a Camry and in city mixed driving, my CX5 beats it on FE. I wont hesitate to replace it with a 2.0L Touring. It has great space - will be slowish in city but that mpg and range of 350+ miles per tank woot !!

    Official Defender of Zamdatm

  5. #20
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    CX5 2.5L AWD

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    It is my impression that VW is a much "better" brand than Mazda, sharing the bed with Porsche, Audi, and others, rather than "Ford's sloppy seconds". It's going to retain value better, seem more up-class, have better features, etc.

    I know everyone gonna jump up and defend Mazda, but it is what it is.
    Last edited by Unobtanium; 12-19-2017 at 09:50 AM.

  6. #21
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    '14 liquid CX-5 AWD GT tech, E84 valencia x1 sdrive msport

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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtanium View Post
    it is my impression that vw is a much "better" brand than mazda, sharing the bed with porsche, audi, and others, rather than "ford's sloppy seconds". It's going to retain value better, seem more up-class, have better features, etc.

    I know everyone gonna jump up and defend mazda, but it is what it is.
    rolflmfao!!!!!! But seriously thanks man I needed that!
    Last edited by Monterra; 12-19-2017 at 10:33 AM.
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  7. #22
    Registered Member Red MC's Avatar

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    Volkswagen a better "brand" than Mazda? That's a new one.

    Right now, Volkswagen's brand image sucks. They went through a streak of build quality problems and poor reliability in the 2000s, and most people I know who had VWs in that decade said "never again". They seemed to be rebuilding their popularity with the TDI, and then dieselgate happened.

    If you go back in time to circa 2000, their offerings were more up-class. My wife owned a Jetta GLX that was near Audi-like. But now they are more below class than above it. They have bland, dated looking design and their interiors feel cheap relative to their selling price.

    Regarding resale price, certain models like the GTI may hold up better than Mazdas because they still have a following.
    Last edited by Red MC; 12-19-2017 at 11:20 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    It is my impression that VW is a much "better" brand than Mazda, sharing the bed with Porsche, Audi, and others, rather than "Ford's sloppy seconds". It's going to retain value better, seem more up-class, have better features, etc.

    I know everyone gonna jump up and defend Mazda, but it is what it is.
    I am new to Mazda so I am certainly not defending Mazda. I may be defending Japanese cars in general because, I have had Toyota Corolla (17 years with no major repairs), RAV4 before (6 years with not even a hiccup), BMW E 91, a well known German brand with only 50000 km and with very troublesome repairs and poor reliability, a VW Golf with even more problem. I am done with German cars. VW has the worst reliability history and bad service from their dealers. Any one who says German cars in general are reliable needs to think again and read stories in the internet. I am just hoping that my new CX-5 will be as reliable as the Toyotas that I have owned previously. I even drove the VW Tiguan before I bought the Mazda and thought that it was un refined in comparison. Too much noise, stiff road handling. The only saving grace on the Tiguan was the more powerful diesel engine with turbo.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monterra View Post
    rolflmfao!!!!!! But seriously thanks man I needed that!

    Man, that is a good one. MY brother had a GTI for a number of years and loved that car. I almost bought one for my son and asked him about it. His only comments was you don't buy a German car for reliability. If you want reliability by a Honda. At close to 60, after his Porsche's, BMW's and GTI's, he is now in an Acura. However, he says it eels it is too boring and is getting himself an Audi.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougal View Post
    Man, that is a good one. MY brother had a GTI for a number of years and loved that car. I almost bought one for my son and asked him about it. His only comments was you don't buy a German car for reliability. If you want reliability by a Honda. At close to 60, after his Porsche's, BMW's and GTI's, he is now in an Acura. However, he says it eels it is too boring and is getting himself an Audi.
    VW, BMW, Merc - once out of warranty they become expensive to maintain. It's always been that way and part of their business model I think. Brand loyalty can be kind of cultish. Same reason when people's Apple device fails prematurely they replace it... with another Apple.

  11. #26
    Swollen Member Natey's Avatar
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    A nice 1970 VW bus will cost you over 20K these days. Don't even ask about a 23 window bus or a halfway decent Thing. VDub's not going anywhere soon. The Touareg is a helluva car and so is the Golf R. Also, VWs have not always been expensive to maintain. My bro and I built a baja bug back in the day with our highschool lunch money. lol.

    I'd buy the wagon, but I hate SUVs that can't go offroad so I'm kinda biased (even though I've been driving nothing but Mazdas for the last 15 years+).
    Last edited by Natey; 12-19-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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  12. #27
    Registered Member Red MC's Avatar

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    The Touareg seems way overpriced. It goes for $50-60k, which is up there with the three-row luxury segment e.g. Acura MDX, Lexus GX. But in terms of performance, features, comfort, and materials quality, it's belongs with the mainstream segment.

    I have a similar issue with the Attrack. A regular, manual Golf S is a $20k car, and that MSRP seems about right considering the comfort, quality, features, and refinement are at the economy car level. Adding AWD and stretching the tail to make it a Sportwagen S raises the price to $25k (or $26k w/ auto), at which point some of the compact CUVs like CX-5 Sport start to make it seem a little overpriced. Then, if you want climate control, power seats, navigation, or driver assistance features, you have to go all the way up to the Alltrack SEL trim. An SEL with the $2k package that provides nav and safety tech is $36k. At that price point, you might expect a premium-ish interior and some refinement, but instead you get leatherette, hard plastics, dated driver information displays, and a noisy cabin.

    My wife drove a 2000 Jetta GLX VR6 for 225k miles and that was a lovely little touring car when it wasn't in the shop. In fact, I preferred it over the A4 in some ways. But it was always in the shop. Current VWs are somewhat more reliable, but no better than average, and they just aren't that nice for the price.

  13. #28
    Registered Member GoFrogs's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
    The Touareg seems way overpriced. It goes for $50-60k, which is up there with the three-row luxury segment e.g. Acura MDX, Lexus GX. But in terms of performance, features, comfort, and materials quality, it's belongs with the mainstream segment.
    When the Touareg came to market in the US in '04 (Gen1 04-07), the V6 started in the low low $30ks and was comparable to the Nissan Pathfinders and Jeep Grand Cherokees at the time. The V8 was in the $40s and the V10 TDI, when around) was near $50k. With each next generation, we are on Gen3 now, the Touareg moved more up market and began to distance itself from the rest of the VW pack to be in a class above all other vehicles. After the Phaeton, the Touareg became the 'next' Phaeton for VW and in some ways became the halo vehicle for VW in the US.

    I realize that the Gen3 Touareg starts in the 40s and has vast improvements in both tech and vehicle construction compared to its Gen1, but it really doesn't have to start in the 40s. And just because it shares pieces/parts with the Cayenne and Q7 didn't mean it needed to be in their price territory; but I guess VW didn't get that memo.

    Maintenance on a Touareg, any generation, is what does it in. Because it shared parts with the Phaeton, Cayenne, Q7, it also shared a lot of their short comings and there are a lot of things that fail that are expensive to fix on those cars...and that is the Touareg's biggest Achilles heal - price for parts and maintenance (done right). I have a friend with an '06 Gen1 T'reg and it is FULL of surprises that even have me speechless and I own an '04 Mk4 GTI (considered not one of the best attempts).

    Quote Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
    I have a similar issue with the Alltrack. A regular, manual Golf S is a $20k car, and that MSRP seems about right considering the comfort, quality, features, and refinement are at the economy car level. Adding AWD and stretching the tail to make it a Sportwagen S raises the price to $25k (or $26k w/ auto), at which point some of the compact CUVs like CX-5 Sport start to make it seem a little overpriced. Then, if you want climate control, power seats, navigation, or driver assistance features, you have to go all the way up to the Alltrack SEL trim. An SEL with the $2k package that provides nav and safety tech is $36k. At that price point, you might expect a premium-ish interior and some refinement, but instead you get leatherette, hard plastics, dated driver information displays, and a noisy cabin.
    I agree with you on this. The Alltrack, although marketed as a premium choice above a regular Sportwagen, when you start diving into the spec sheet, it really isn't all that special, accept the way it is packaged. Because the Outback is its main competition, I believe VW chose their packaging and pricing strategy to be in line with the Subaru and not really stay in the family of other VW products. In the regular Sportwagen, there is a $5k price jump btwn the 'S' and the 'SE' and 80% of that difference is on the inside materials; but it doesn't seem like a $5k premium. In any case, the Sportwagen S w/4motion is fairly unique and I believe was priced to be the sales leader in the Sportwagen lineup, especially in northern climates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
    My wife drove a 2000 Jetta GLX VR6 for 225k miles and that was a lovely little touring car when it wasn't in the shop. In fact, I preferred it over the A4 in some ways. But it was always in the shop. Current VWs are somewhat more reliable, but no better than average, and they just aren't that nice for the price.
    That one had the 12v motor. That was also the early years of the Mk4 chassis, but the engine was from the Mk3 GTI Why was it in the shop? Electrics? Transmission issues? Engine/Coolant issues? My '04 has been fairly well behaved, but it has the 1.8t and not the VR6.
    #savethemanuals _ #savethewagons _ #savethemanualwagons
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    MazdaUSA - Please bring the '6wagon to the US (with a manual option)
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  14. #29
    Registered Member Red MC's Avatar

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    The coil pack housing would start to crack after 30-50k miles, and then performance would decline and anytime you started the car in wet or foggy weather it would misfire. The DIY fix to cover the cracks with JB Weld is only a temporary fix because the coil pack housing will just keep cracking elsewhere. It just can't take the heat. If you tried to live with this for any length of time, carbon deposits would build up to the point where you needed to get in and clean them out. We replaced the coil pack 4 times, and finally ditched the car when it needed it a 5th time. VW switched to coil on plug for the 24V VR6.

    The ABS system would start to fail every year or so. Sometimes, it could be fixed by setting the sensor clearance a little closer but we also went through a couple sets of front ABS sensors.

    The airbag system failed sometime in the 1st year and almost never worked after that. The first time, they found pinched wiring in the steering column. They replaced the wiring harness and it was good for a few months and then started failing self-tests again. After that, they replaced pretty much everything and it worked for a while before failing again. They threw one more round of parts at it after that, and then the warranty was up.

    The door seals were improperly installed from the factory. The dealer ended up replacing them all over the course of a couple visits.

    Power windows started failing after 100k or so. Naturally, they failed in the down position. In the winter.

    The wipers also failed around the same mileage. The gearbox broke while we were driving in a thunderstorm, which was scary as hell.

    The thermostat failed and stranded my wife due to overheating.

    Sometime later the radiator fans failed and stranded my wife due to overheating.

    There were a couple of emissions related failures, but I can't recall what they were.

    And I think the charging system ran a little over-voltage because it seemed to go through bulbs and batteries somewhat quickly.

    On the plus side, the body, underside, and exhaust stood up to 7 years and 225k miles of New England driving without any rust issues, and I don't recall replacing many wear items in the chassis. Maybe one wheel bearing or something like that.

    When it worked it was a nice car. The VR6 had good low end and midrange and it was geared short, so it felt quick. The torque peak was at 3200 RPM, and in top gear it spun 3200 RPM at 80 mph, so highway passing power was instant. The engine was very quiet and smooth, you couldn't feel it or hear it at cruise. And despite the somewhat short gearing, we would get 26-27 MPG on the highway and averaged about 24 MPG overall. It was fun to toss around through corners, although like most VWs there was more pitch and roll than I prefer. The cabin was near Audi grade. It was very hushed, materials were high quality, and it had all the features that were fancied circa 2000: climate control, heated seats, heated wipers, auto dimming mirrors, rain sensing wipers, driver's seat memory, ambient lighting, electroluminescent gauges. The only reason we put up with it for so long is that we couldn't buy anything else as nice for similar money.

  15. #30
    Registered Member Kaps's Avatar
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    There is an article on Jalopnik - should i consider a diesel VW. This para is hilarious about VW:


    There are people out there who owned a first-generation Volkswagen Touareg — the Touareg that would turn off its headlights when another Touareg was approaching because it mistook the other Touareg’s headlights for the sun — and went right out and bought a second Touareg later. And there are thousands of these people.

    People who were convinced Volkswagen offered “solid German engineering,” who discovered it actually offered “solid incomes for dealership service managers,” and who went out and bought another Volkswagen product anyway. So we have already demonstrated an inexplicable propensity to believe whatever Volkswagen tells us, and I suspect it won’t stop now.
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