The AWD thread

19 man that's real crappy thank that hyperactive throttle of the 17 don't get it, not a fan, weight gain too. Winter temps, tires and fuel knock my early gen1 awd 5er down to about 25 but do almost no city, summer Ill see 28+ typically, not mountainous but def not flat.
 
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I’m getting about 32 corrected to a US gallon and that is driven quite hard in mostly freezing temps. It’s the 175 AWD auto diesel.
 
What MPG is everyone getting on their AWD?

We live in SoCal so we’ve got hills but not climbing mountains everyday. Looks like we’re averaging 19 MPG. It’s brand new with around 1K miles.

‘17 GT Premium

Mileage will improve once the car is broken in. I was about 22 average until ~4K miles. Over the last 90K miles, my overall average is ~26.
 
I'm averaging 22 mpg but it is about 90% city driving. Lots of traffic lights, lots of traffic, and hills.
On highway only trips I get about 28-29 per the on-board computer, which is about .5 too high when compared to calculated by fillup.
 
With about 600 miles on the clock, I'm averaging around 24 mpg through two 'controlled' fillups, while the computer is saying a hair over 25. That's a very equal mix of city and highway.
 
AWD has limited uses

I've lived in snowy areas all my life. Had a couple Subaru's. One in the 80's had on demand, that I used exactly 3 times over 10 years of use. I feel AWD is totally useless and is just a marketing schema. Look at consumer reports review: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/09/do-you-really-need-awd-in-the-snow/index.htm
or
http://www.automoblog.net/2015/01/16/snow-tires-vs-awd/
or
https://www.caranddriver.com/columns/snow-tires-still-beat-four-wheel-drive
or https://jalopnik.com/lets-settle-the-winter-tires-vs-all-wheel-drive-debat-1462180324
still not convinced: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-all-powerful-all-wheel-drive-15202862/
Or how about Outside mag, they know a think or 2 about the outdoors:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2144166/awd-doesnt-matter-winter-tires-do

I have a FWD CX5 and have Blizaks on it, never had any issues. But I was recently in a canyon in a friends AWD van. We hit ice and slid off the road, as did 3 Subaru's behind us, a RWD truck and a Jeep. After an hour of shoveling and throwing dirt on the icy patch we all got out. Even the RWD truck. My FWD manual CX5 is averaging 35+ mpg. My last tank was 32 mpg and that was with a bunch of short drives and a few steep canyon drives.
My Subaru's were a PITA, all cv boots cracked and some of the joints failed. Eventually that ran almost 3 grand to have 8 cv joints replaced. I blew out a tire that resulted in all 4 needing to be replaced (AWD needs all tires to be same wear)....
Reduced MPG, reduced HP due to losses in differential and increased weight, increased maintenance, increased cost of tires... All so I can feel overconfident driving in bad weather. Nope, FWD for me forever.
 
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I want the best possible launch and stopping capabilities in winter so AWD & snows.

In our northwest mountain passes during the winter one has chain up often with anything but AWD/4WD or risk a possible $500 ticket. The time savings alone is worth it to me.

Not saying just because you have AWD or 4WD you are safer since I have seen some "summer tire" vehicles on snow that couldn't get of their own way and people driving way faster than they should in the snow.

On the pass I normally traverse I think the vehicles pushing the speed safety limits on snow and ice are Audi's and Subarus. There are a few sane Subaru drivers but the Audi ones tend to all drive fast.

I even keep chains and traction mats with me just in case as well. I like to be over-prepared.
 
I've lived in snowy areas all my life. Had a couple Subaru's. One in the 80's had on demand, that I used exactly 3 times over 10 years of use. I feel AWD is totally useless and is just a marketing schema. Look at consumer reports review: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/09/do-you-really-need-awd-in-the-snow/index.htm
or
http://www.automoblog.net/2015/01/16/snow-tires-vs-awd/
or
https://www.caranddriver.com/columns/snow-tires-still-beat-four-wheel-drive
or https://jalopnik.com/lets-settle-the-winter-tires-vs-all-wheel-drive-debat-1462180324
still not convinced: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-all-powerful-all-wheel-drive-15202862/

I have a FWD CX5 and have Blizaks on it, never had any issues. But I was recently in a canyon in a friends AWD van. We hit ice and slid off the road, as did 3 Subaru's behind us, a RWD truck and a Jeep. After an hour of shoveling and throwing dirt on the icy patch we all got out. Even the RWD truck. My FWD manual CX5 is averaging 35+ mpg. My last tank was 32 mpg and that was with a bunch of short drives and a few steep canyon drives.
My Subaru's were a PITA, all cv boots cracked and some of the joints failed. Eventually that ran almost 3 grand to have 8 cv joints replaced. I blew out a tire that resulted in all 4 needing to be replaced (AWD needs all tires to be same wear)....
Reduced MPG, reduced HP due to losses in differential and increased weight, increased maintenance, increased cost of tires... All so I can feel overconfident driving in bad weather. Nope, FWD for me forever.

well, that was ice, and none of the vehicles you mentioned are 100% FWD all the time... so not sure of the point on that one.

further, I doubt you will find many folks here stating AWD > snow tires.

but AWD + snow tires >>> FWD + snow tires, hands down.
 
I've lived in snowy areas all my life. Had a couple Subaru's. One in the 80's had on demand, that I used exactly 3 times over 10 years of use. I feel AWD is totally useless and is just a marketing schema. Look at consumer reports review: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/09/do-you-really-need-awd-in-the-snow/index.htm
or
http://www.automoblog.net/2015/01/16/snow-tires-vs-awd/
or
https://www.caranddriver.com/columns/snow-tires-still-beat-four-wheel-drive
or https://jalopnik.com/lets-settle-the-winter-tires-vs-all-wheel-drive-debat-1462180324
still not convinced: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-all-powerful-all-wheel-drive-15202862/

I have a FWD CX5 and have Blizaks on it, never had any issues. But I was recently in a canyon in a friends AWD van. We hit ice and slid off the road, as did 3 Subaru's behind us, a RWD truck and a Jeep. After an hour of shoveling and throwing dirt on the icy patch we all got out. Even the RWD truck. My FWD manual CX5 is averaging 35+ mpg. My last tank was 32 mpg and that was with a bunch of short drives and a few steep canyon drives.
My Subaru's were a PITA, all cv boots cracked and some of the joints failed. Eventually that ran almost 3 grand to have 8 cv joints replaced. I blew out a tire that resulted in all 4 needing to be replaced (AWD needs all tires to be same wear)....
Reduced MPG, reduced HP due to losses in differential and increased weight, increased maintenance, increased cost of tires... All so I can feel overconfident driving in bad weather. Nope, FWD for me forever.

Well they don't call it wrong wheel drive for nothing eh? Fail wheel drive? Seems like subie failed you moreso than awd..but hey if fwd works for you great I'd rather have rwd honestly but different strokes..
 
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but AWD + snow tires >>> FWD + snow tires, hands down.

No question about it.
Road conditions, vehicle equipment, driver skill and drive judgement all play a part.
Some people in some cars in some low traction situations will be OK with FWD w/M+S, but they'll always be better off with AWD w/M+S in those same situations... unless their skills or judgement sucks.
The operator is the wild card.
 
I, for one,enjoy being able to back into my inclined driveway. Try that in your FWD car. (I have, you can't) That alone is worth the expense.
 
I've lived in snowy areas all my life. Had a couple Subaru's. One in the 80's had on demand, that I used exactly 3 times over 10 years of use. I feel AWD is totally useless and is just a marketing schema. Look at consumer reports review: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/09/do-you-really-need-awd-in-the-snow/index.htm
or
http://www.automoblog.net/2015/01/16/snow-tires-vs-awd/
or
https://www.caranddriver.com/columns/snow-tires-still-beat-four-wheel-drive
or https://jalopnik.com/lets-settle-the-winter-tires-vs-all-wheel-drive-debat-1462180324
still not convinced: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-all-powerful-all-wheel-drive-15202862/

I have a FWD CX5 and have Blizaks on it, never had any issues. But I was recently in a canyon in a friends AWD van. We hit ice and slid off the road, as did 3 Subaru's behind us, a RWD truck and a Jeep. After an hour of shoveling and throwing dirt on the icy patch we all got out. Even the RWD truck. My FWD manual CX5 is averaging 35+ mpg. My last tank was 32 mpg and that was with a bunch of short drives and a few steep canyon drives.
My Subaru's were a PITA, all cv boots cracked and some of the joints failed. Eventually that ran almost 3 grand to have 8 cv joints replaced. I blew out a tire that resulted in all 4 needing to be replaced (AWD needs all tires to be same wear)....
Reduced MPG, reduced HP due to losses in differential and increased weight, increased maintenance, increased cost of tires... All so I can feel overconfident driving in bad weather. Nope, FWD for me forever.

*Looks at location.*

Ah, Utah. There is a serious lack of driving skills in that state. You all drive like total crap out there, worse than California.

And this statement:

I feel AWD is totally useless and is just a marketing schema.

Just totally reinforces that.

Believe what you want I guess... (braindead
 
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Well looks like I'll be driving in the snow tomorrow. A major storm heading to Charlotte tomorrow, calling for 1 to 2" of snow. Probably shut down the city for weeks. :)
 
*Looks at location.*

Ah, Utah. There is a serious lack of driving skills in that state. You all drive like total crap out there, worse than California.
You think Utah is bad? Try living in Flagstaff, AZ. People come up from Phoenix in the AWD's thinking they can drive in anything. It was fun helping them back on the road.

Seriously, did you read any of the numerous article posted on this subject? Your saying I'm delusional, so is consumer reports, car and driver, outside magazine...?
How about a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXjzYbpt9Ow&feature=youtu.be
 
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I've lived in snowy areas all my life. Had a couple Subaru's. One in the 80's had on demand, that I used exactly 3 times over 10 years of use. I feel AWD is totally useless and is just a marketing schema. Look at consumer reports review: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/09/do-you-really-need-awd-in-the-snow/index.htm
or
http://www.automoblog.net/2015/01/16/snow-tires-vs-awd/
or
https://www.caranddriver.com/columns/snow-tires-still-beat-four-wheel-drive
or https://jalopnik.com/lets-settle-the-winter-tires-vs-all-wheel-drive-debat-1462180324
still not convinced: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-all-powerful-all-wheel-drive-15202862/
Or how about Outside mag, they know a think or 2 about the outdoors:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2144166/awd-doesnt-matter-winter-tires-do

I have a FWD CX5 and have Blizaks on it, never had any issues. But I was recently in a canyon in a friends AWD van. We hit ice and slid off the road, as did 3 Subaru's behind us, a RWD truck and a Jeep. After an hour of shoveling and throwing dirt on the icy patch we all got out. Even the RWD truck. My FWD manual CX5 is averaging 35+ mpg. My last tank was 32 mpg and that was with a bunch of short drives and a few steep canyon drives.
My Subaru's were a PITA, all cv boots cracked and some of the joints failed. Eventually that ran almost 3 grand to have 8 cv joints replaced. I blew out a tire that resulted in all 4 needing to be replaced (AWD needs all tires to be same wear)....
Reduced MPG, reduced HP due to losses in differential and increased weight, increased maintenance, increased cost of tires... All so I can feel overconfident driving in bad weather. Nope, FWD for me forever.

You're a curious character to own a couple of Subaru's but think AWD is useless.

I guess that's not as bad as owning a Tesla and not believing in electric motors. Maybe more like Acura and not liking variable valve timing?
 
You think Utah is bad? Try living in Flagstaff, AZ. People come up from Phoenix in the AWD's thinking they can drive in anything. It was fun helping them back on the road.

Seriously, did you read any of the numerous article posted on this subject? Your saying I'm delusional, so is consumer reports, car and driver, outside magazine...?
I can imagine. But for me SLC is the scariest place I've ever had to drive. Terrible drivers. Bay area in California was less scary.

Anyway, yes you are delusional. You own Subarus then say AWD is useless. Yet you still needed it 3 times... Yeah ok. Something doesn't add up there.

As for you other bit, ice is ice. Your canyon story really doesn't mean much to this discussion.
 
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