2018 CX-9 GT Road Noise - Crosspost from Tires, Suspension Section,

MattGoose said:

Yeah, all due respect, I've got just shy of a quarter of a million miles of driving experience over the last 20 years, practically all of it in New England. I've leased, owned and driven front wheel drive cars, rear wheel drive cars, all wheel drive cars and four wheel drive cars - multiple VW Jettas, Audi A4, Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee, BMW 3 and 5 Series, Chevy Suburbans and 1500, Porsche 911, Range Rover Sport, Honda Pilot and now the CX-9.

I'm not claiming to be the personal owner or lessee of all of those vehicles, but I have driven all of them extensively in snow, rain or sleet.

Not one single one of them - other than the 911 - has been as twitchy in the snow as the CX-9. I spun it on an off ramp that I drive every. single. day. I think it is the tires more than the vehicle - particularly because they were still pretty inflated - but I wouldn't be blaming the vehicle for having poor snow performance if I weren't absolutely certain that that it is at least partially responsible for it.

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It could be because of the overinflated tires. I remember my Maxima handled significantly better in snowy conditions when I deflated the tires to like 34psi.

My Mazda 6 is FWD, and I never had an issue with handling even when it was snowy outside, and it has Yokohama all seasons on (which are actually pretty decent for the performance they offer in the dry)

And this is where the excrement hits the oscillating unit...

I called the dealership yesterday and told them what I had seen with the tires, so we could discuss what we could do to confirm and then fix. My thought was we rotate the tires, take a drive and confirm whether that fixes the problem.

His response? If it's the tires, it's your problem. Call Bridgestone and if you don't like it, take it up with Corporate. Then he hung up.

So I did - I called Mazda Corporate and they *sort* of confirmed that it would fall under the tire warranty. They were much more supportive in working to confirm the tires were the culprit and in supporting working with Bridgestone to fix.

I called Bridgestone and their position is that OEM tires are the responsibility of the manufacturer - I never purchased anything from them and we have no contractual relationship.

So. I figured the good will would run out eventually, but not this soon.

I'm not sure yet about posting which dealership it is, but if anyone is looking to buy a car and would like to avoid them feel free to PM.

If the tires are all set to a cold psi of 34, then I would have the dealer check the balance of all the tires and the alignment. Mazda's have a 12k mi adjustment warranty if these need to be done.

BTW, temperature greatly affects tire pressure as well, a 20 degree drop in temps can lower a tire's psi by 2-4lbs

Falken tires are a Sumitomo brand, not a Bridgestone brand. Mine have been surprisingly good in snow. I usually run Blizzaks, but got surprised last spring with an unexpected snowy mountain trip after I put the Falkens back on. No problem.

Twitchy in snow? My CX-9 is the steadiest car I've driven in snow, and I've driven a lot. I was on the Blizzaks on the "Highway from Hell," BC-5, the Coquahalla Pass highway a month ago in a blizzard. The car was steady as fast as I could drive, up to 60 mph on snow, in the places where I had sufficient visibility. If there is twitchiness, it is either road surface, or a particular tire problem, or an AWD problem.

dunhillmc said:

If the tires are all set to a cold psi of 34, then I would have the dealer check the balance of all the tires and the alignment. Mazda's have a 12k mi adjustment warranty if these need to be done.

BTW, temperature greatly affects tire pressure as well, a 20 degree drop in temps can lower a tire's psi by 2-4lbs

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I'm from New England, I know the Ideal Gas Law very well

Service Manager was trying to tell me that a 10 degree drop could result in a 10 PSI drop. Nope.

Waiting now for Mazda Corporate to deal with the local dealership and set conditions with them for me to bring my car back in.

Talk about a great way to ruin a new car experience. Not only a new car, but the first time I've bought from this manufacture.

Unless someone gets involved and fixes PDQ, this is the last time I'll be buying a Mazda.

PTguy said:

Falken tires are a Sumitomo brand, not a Bridgestone brand. Mine have been surprisingly good in snow. I usually run Blizzaks, but got surprised last spring with an unexpected snowy mountain trip after I put the Falkens back on. No problem.

Twitchy in snow? My CX-9 is the steadiest car I've driven in snow, and I've driven a lot. I was on the Blizzaks on the "Highway from Hell," BC-5, the Coquahalla Pass highway a month ago in a blizzard. The car was steady as fast as I could drive, up to 60 mph on snow, in the places where I had sufficient visibility. If there is twitchiness, it is either road surface, or a particular tire problem, or an AWD problem.

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I don't have Falken tires, I have Bridgestone tires.

For whatever reason, Mazda outfits the CX-9 with two very different tires.

Taking a couple of extra PSI out of the tires made the problem way better, so I'm hesitant to point to another cause.

Having replaced tires on a VW Jetta (FWD) and Honda Pilot (AWD?) from OEM to highly rated all season tires I would respectfully disagree that tires should be excluded from the equation. The difference from the OEM to the Michelin's was night and day enormous.

Tires can make an enormous difference

MattGoose said:

Having replaced tires on a VW Jetta (FWD) and Honda Pilot (AWD?) from OEM to highly rated all season tires I would respectfully disagree that tires should be excluded from the equation. The difference from the OEM to the Michelin's was night and day enormous.

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Well said, MattGoose. After working for 16 years in the automotive industry, more specifically for Michelin, I can attest that changing tires on a vehicle can have a profound positive impact. Matter of fact, some automotive manufacturers used to contact Michelin when they had another brand of tire on their vehicle and they couldn't solve certain NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) issues. Michelin would regularly find that switching to certain tires would solve the problem. As an example, Michelin routinely has the best uniformity in the business. What's that? Simply put, it's the ability to make a tire as round as possible (yes, there are other technical aspects involved but this is one of the main features). You'd think everyone could do it but it's a difficult exercise and one that can have an enormous impact on the ride, performance and wear of a tire. Having said all of this, I am clearly biased toward Michelin-brand tires but do not wish to demean any of the other manufacturers. As an example, I didn't replace the OE Falken's on my 2017 Signature edition. I'll run on them till they're worn and then replace them with Michelin-brand tires.

MattGoose said:

Talk about a great way to ruin a new car experience. Not only a new car, but the first time I've bought from this manufacture.

Unless someone gets involved and fixes PDQ, this is the last time I'll be buying a Mazda.

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Man, talk about a terrible dealer experience. I would absolutely blast them on Google Reviews. More and more people are doing their research on dealerships, and reviews go a long way. A review based on bad customer service alone is enough to turn some people away.

I'm hoping Mazda Corporate gets them in line, or at least can direct you to a more accommodating dealership. And hopefully they can get your tire replaced for you.

mifanning said:

Well said, MattGoose. After working for 16 years in the automotive industry, more specifically for Michelin, I can attest that changing tires on a vehicle can have a profound positive impact. Matter of fact, some automotive manufacturers used to contact Michelin when they had another brand of tire on their vehicle and they couldn't solve certain NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) issues. Michelin would regularly find that switching to certain tires would solve the problem. As an example, Michelin routinely has the best uniformity in the business. What's that? Simply put, it's the ability to make a tire as round as possible (yes, there are other technical aspects involved but this is one of the main features). You'd think everyone could do it but it's a difficult exercise and one that can have an enormous impact on the ride, performance and wear of a tire. Having said all of this, I am clearly biased toward Michelin-brand tires but do not wish to demean any of the other manufacturers. As an example, I didn't replace the OE Falken's on my 2017 Signature edition. I'll run on them till they're worn and then replace them with Michelin-brand tires.

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You can be happy with one brand without it being a dig on others

Amusing story from when I replaced the OEM tires on the Jetta. I think they were Bridgestone, but whatever they were, they were garbage whether it was dry, wet or snowy. And they were loud. So loud.

I finally wore them out and put the new pair on - I think it was a set of Primacy MXV4 - and was amazed at the performance difference, particularly in the snow.

But was got me was the noise difference. I spent the first 3 days after they were putting on looking for an open window until it dawned on me what had changed. I had been hearing tire noise as the primary sound in the car and after it was all wind noise. Tire noise was just gone.

Pretty cool.

sm1ke said:

Man, talk about a terrible dealer experience. I would absolutely blast them on Google Reviews. More and more people are doing their research on dealerships, and reviews go a long way. A review based on bad customer service alone is enough to turn some people away.

I'm hoping Mazda Corporate gets them in line, or at least can direct you to a more accommodating dealership. And hopefully they can get your tire replaced for you.

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Yeah, I'm getting there. I'm not sure if the guy was just having a bad day, so I'll let it play out. If they keep being difficult, we'll take the next step.

Got a voicemail late last night from Mazda Corporate confirming that I had been contacted by the dealership. Which I haven't, so we'll see what the next steps are.

What a joke this has turned into.

MattGoose said:

You can be happy with one brand without it being a dig on others

Amusing story from when I replaced the OEM tires on the Jetta. I think they were Bridgestone, but whatever they were, they were garbage whether it was dry, wet or snowy. And they were loud. So loud.

I finally wore them out and put the new pair on - I think it was a set of Primacy MXV4 - and was amazed at the performance difference, particularly in the snow.

But was got me was the noise difference. I spent the first 3 days after they were putting on looking for an open window until it dawned on me what had changed. I had been hearing tire noise as the primary sound in the car and after it was all wind noise. Tire noise was just gone.

Pretty cool.

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Uh, primacys are s*** tires. I dont think you guys know what a high performance tire is supposed to feel like.

Michelins are good tires (im talking about the actual good ones, like the pilot sports, pilot super sports, etc) but I swear its the only brand anyone ever brings up when it comes to tires. Another great brand worth mentioning is Yokohama, and no I dont mean the awful CX-5 OEMs.

GJ-Molestor said:

Uh, primacys are s*** tires. I don’t think you guys know what a high performance tire is supposed to feel like.

Michelin’s are good tires (im talking about the actual good ones, like the pilot sports, pilot super sports, etc) but I swear it’s the only brand anyone ever brings up when it comes to tires. Another great brand worth mentioning is Yokohama, and no I don’t mean the awful CX-5 OEM’s.

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I had Primacy MXV4's on my 2012 Mazda 6. Traction and road noise levels were great. I had 55k miles on them when the car was totaled and the tread had only gone from 11/32 to 8/32

dunhillmc said:

I had Primacy MXV4's on my 2012 Mazda 6. Traction and road noise levels were great. I had 55k miles on them when the car was totaled and the tread had only gone from 11/32 to 8/32

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I dont care much about treadwear if the tires perform well. Primacies dont. at least they are quiet like you said, and they do last a long time. Ive had the chance to throughly test them. They were actually pretty good in the rain (Id say better than in the dry, lol) but I found the grip to be pretty unexceptional in the dry, although I did like that the tires communicated to you when you were approaching the rather low levels of grip, so I wont say that they are a bad set.

Not all tires perform equally on different cars. Having tried Michelin Pilot sports on one Mazda 6, the OEM equipment Advan A83A (Yokohama) and then the replacement Avid Envigors, I found Yokohama tires to be well suited to Mazdas chassis. Those Advan tires had absolutely phenomenal grip. They gripped almost twice as good as the primacies and even at the limit of adhesion they would barely break a sweat. Traction in the rain was like.. as if it wasnt even wet outside. Treadwear was very good for such a good performing tire, they rode nice and comfy... my only complaint is the atrocious tire noise closer to highway speeds, but Ill sacrifice that to have satisfyingly precise steering feel and absolutely phenomenal communication and very good grip over smooth road surfaces.

GJ-Molestor said:

Uh, primacys are s*** tires. I don’t think you guys know what a high performance tire is supposed to feel like.

Michelin’s are good tires (im talking about the actual good ones, like the pilot sports, pilot super sports, etc) but I swear it’s the only brand anyone ever brings up when it comes to tires. Another great brand worth mentioning is Yokohama, and no I don’t mean the awful CX-5 OEM’s.

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Go away.

MattGoose said:

You can be happy with one brand without it being a dig on others

Amusing story from when I replaced the OEM tires on the Jetta. I think they were Bridgestone, but whatever they were, they were garbage whether it was dry, wet or snowy. And they were loud. So loud.

I finally wore them out and put the new pair on - I think it was a set of Primacy MXV4 - and was amazed at the performance difference, particularly in the snow.

But was got me was the noise difference. I spent the first 3 days after they were putting on looking for an open window until it dawned on me what had changed. I had been hearing tire noise as the primary sound in the car and after it was all wind noise. Tire noise was just gone.

Pretty cool.

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(dance)

Matt:

It's not clear from this thread whether you (or the dealer) did what Guest2018 suggested, which is to rotate the tires and thus either confirm or eliminate a tire as the source of the problem. Did you do that yet?

Also, what did the dealer do following his mechanic's ride in the vehicle in which he admitted to hearing a noise he wasn't familiar with?

The comments about how your car should not behave badly in the snow are accurate. I have lived the past 50 years in Canada and back in my mis-spent youth I did a lot of fairly competitive rally driving, almost all on snow-covered forest roads, and I have driven more miles than I care to remember on paved highways in winter conditions, so I believe I have a reasonably good idea of winter driving. I can assure you that the CX-9 is a capable vehicle in snowy and icy conditions. If it is trying to kill you there is clearly a problem with either the tires or your particular vehicle, not the CX-9 in general.

I can't believe somebody at your dealer hung up on you! But even so stay cool. You are much more likely to resolve the problem if you can stay on speaking terms.

Good luck. I am curious to find out what the end resolution is.

roadrutz said:

Matt:

It's not clear from this thread whether you (or the dealer) did what Guest2018 suggested, which is to rotate the tires and thus either confirm or eliminate a tire as the source of the problem. Did you do that yet?

Also, what did the dealer do following his mechanic's ride in the vehicle in which he admitted to hearing a noise he wasn't familiar with?

The comments about how your car should not behave badly in the snow are accurate. I have lived the past 50 years in Canada and back in my mis-spent youth I did a lot of fairly competitive rally driving, almost all on snow-covered forest roads, and I have driven more miles than I care to remember on paved highways in winter conditions, so I believe I have a reasonably good idea of winter driving. I can assure you that the CX-9 is a capable vehicle in snowy and icy conditions. If it is trying to kill you there is clearly a problem with either the tires or your particular vehicle, not the CX-9 in general.

I can't believe somebody at your dealer hung up on you! But even so stay cool. You are much more likely to resolve the problem if you can stay on speaking terms.

Good luck. I am curious to find out what the end resolution is.

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I was calling the dealer to ask them to rotate the tires and see if that solved it. As soon as he heard it might be the tires he told me it was my problem....

During the ride with the mechanic, he told me to expect it to take a while to fix - a week or longer anyways. I said that was fine so long as I could get a loaner (which my dealership offers). They had previously given me a 3 as a loaner, which is simply too small for me to fit myself and my kids in, so I said I would be happy to wait to schedule the appointment around their loaner car availability.

After that came the snowstorm, and when I lowered the PSI. After I saw the difference, that's when I called the dealer to try and have them rotate the tires before they spent tons and tons of time trying to fix it.

On the snow performance.... I don't know. I listed my driving experience and the cars that I have driven in the snow previously, so I won't belabor the point, but I have more than 20 years experience driving in New England snow.

I can tell you, without reservation, both the front wheel drive '09 Jetta TDI and my Honda Pilot were hands down better driving in the snow. Maybe it is only tires, maybe it is related to the specific driving conditions that I have had the Mazda in - it hasn't snowed since I dropped the pressure again. That being said, I've historically run tire pressure on the high side without any adverse wet/snow condition performance. The Dueler's are a 4 star tire on Tire Rack, so it's not like they are crap either.

Ok, maybe I'll belabor the point a bit.... In 85,000 miles in the TDI Jetta, 65,000 miles in a gas Jetta, and another 60,000 miles in the Honda Pilot I spun precisely once. I've already spun once in the Mazda (fortunately recovering it before hitting the guard rail) in less than 4,000 miles. I'm not saying that it's bad in the snow, I haven't driven it enough in the snow to say that definitively, but I don't know if it is the turbo kicking in, but I think some of the same characteristics that make it fun to drive in the dry make it a bit more twitchy in the snow than it might otherwise be.

Yelling's never really gotten me anywhere, so I'll keep trying to work with them

Appreciate your input and others, and I'll keep updating here as I know!

Could it be a tire balance issue? That's the first thing that comes to mind when I hear vibration. Mention the 12k mile 'adjustment warranty' that Mazda has that covers tire balance and wheel alignments

Tire defects are covered by the tire manufacture though

dunhillmc said:

Could it be a tire balance issue? That's the first thing that comes to mind when I hear vibration. Mention the 12k mile 'adjustment warranty' that Mazda has that covers tire balance and wheel alignments

Tire defects are covered by the tire manufacture though

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Definitely could be.

I found a very nice Bridgestone dealer near me that has a road force balance machine. They offered to let me bring the car in and they would throw the tires on the machine and see. They said it was very possibly there is an issue with the belts on the tire. The road force machine would be able to identify that as a defect and they would take care of it.

Very nice tire folks.

But, I'm going to make the dealership go through the car up and down first as I'm BS at them. I want them to prove it's not the car before I take up the time of these nice people at the tire place.

I'm going away for vacation for awhile, so I'm going to drop the car at the dealership and call it done when I get it back.

Thanks to all!

Enjoy your vacation man, hopefully you'll come back to a better ride.