Congrats on your purchase! I think you made the right decision going AWD...
AWD or FWD
- Thread starter Fruitwolf
- Start date
Congrats on your purchase! I think you made the right decision going AWD...
Thanks tekbis!
Next is getting the towing rig, cargo cover and Blendmount for the radar detector. $$$
hey nelson thanks for the insight ..
that is a logic that can be used in any case.. don't go to the gym because ull get to big and u might think ur able to kick everyones arse..
get the awd and get the winter tires.. done..
M
The key is that winter tires can actually help you stop and steer the car in slick conditions much better than all season tires. AWD will help you get moving, but won't help you stop or maneuver the car around a curve. So, in your scenario, the inexperienced but over confident driver benefits more from winter tires than AWD. (drive)
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If you've ever seen fwd rally cars go at it.. yes fwd can work AMAZING with the right tires.
Here in L.A. fwd is a no brainer. I think most folks who get AWD here just like the street cred of having that badge on the back.
Besides the weight/mpg factor, I like not having extra moving parts to possibly have to service in a long term vehicle. But if you need it you need it.
Here in L.A. fwd is a no brainer. I think most folks who get AWD here just like the street cred of having that badge on the back.
Besides the weight/mpg factor, I like not having extra moving parts to possibly have to service in a long term vehicle. But if you need it you need it.
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- 2008 Mazda CX-9 Touring FWD . 2014 CX-5 GT FWD
Light-duty AWD = Manufacturer Profit in the snowbelt
First, the AWD system in current Mazdas is not sophisticated in any way compared to other systems. You're buying into the marketing. Check out the video of the Mazda CX-9 I-active AWD stuck on the paved hump in the road and the accompanying threads and then tell me about its sophistication as you watch the wheels spin. It's not even apparent that Mazda had anything to do with the AWD design given how mystified they were when that video came out. (Dumb video, but it proves my point.) Many, if not most, manufacturers simply buy an outsourced AWD system from Dana, Borg-Warner, Magna, GKN, etc. and plop it in the car barely understanding how it works. That's why AWD systems in Mazdas are full part replacement items that dealers are not prepared to fix.
If you think it's easier to drive an AWD on PAVED mountain roads over a FWD or even RWD, then you once again have bought into the marketing. Heck, I will jump in just about any 40-year old RWD car with reasonable HP and I will beat you up and down the mountains in the rain or snow if you let me choose the tires. Search for the video "RWD in a Snowstorm..." and see what I mean while you watch a very light and low FRS zip around with AWD SUVs on mountain highways. Back in the day I watched a very crappy gen-1 Ford minivan blow past my AWD 4Runner in a blizzard outside of Calgary. How you ask? Snow tires. I learned my final AWD-debunking lesson that day. Now that minivan wouldn't have done well off-road where the 4Runner had been in the summer, but that's another application.
An AWD vehicle with identical tires and driver will indeed require a greater distance to stop than a FWD because of the impact of the weight. It may the difference of a few feet or even inches, but physics is a ruthless master and will not allow that extra mass to just disappear.
I wish all you AWD drivers well with your vehicles but take my advice and swap out those OEM tires and see how things change for you in the sloppy seasons.
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- 2008 Mazda CX-9 Touring FWD . 2014 CX-5 GT FWD
Yep, overconfidence is a killer when you're behind the wheel of a 2-ton missile.
I have no worries about people who invest in winter tires over AWD. They will be safer and wiser for the experience of stopping shorter and cornering safer in the slop.
I've yet to see someone with snow tires in a ditch but I confess I haven't looked that closely.
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- CX5
I may agree with you but ignorance (not knowing how to drive in a specific road type), over confident (you think you know everything) and AWD are INCOMPARABLE sets.
You can NEVER conclude or generalize that AWD is dangerous because it builds over confidence.
Yep, overconfidence is a killer when you're behind the wheel of a 2-ton missile.
I have no worries about people who invest in winter tires over AWD. They will be safer and wiser for the experience of stopping shorter and cornering safer in the slop.
I've yet to see someone with snow tires in a ditch but I confess I haven't looked that closely.
How many cars w/o winter tires (where the roads are snowy or icy) have you observed in a ditch?
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- 2008 Mazda CX-9 Touring FWD . 2014 CX-5 GT FWD
Huh? Set theory references? LOL
I never said AWD was dangerous so what in the world is your point?
Bridges need minding I guess.
Be well.
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- 2008 Mazda CX-9 Touring FWD . 2014 CX-5 GT FWD
Didn't know you were a mod now Tekbis.
This board is full of great discussions and information buried in threads where the OP had moved on.
Not trying to be a mod here or anything but just making suggestions based on the original post which was already decided on and concluded. I do recall there was a separate post on AWD vs FWD a few months ago...
Hey guys, seems there is a lot of discussion and confusion, let me put it this way so I can be clear on my points.
a) awd will always be easier to drive and correct in slippery situations as well as having lots of more traction in every situation. so said that , much safer.
b) overconfidence is a human fact, not a car fact .... if what has been said on this blog were true, Volvos would be the most accident prominent cars
c) mazdas awd system isn't as technological as a "vector" awd system, nope its not but its really good compared to the older ones and for example compared to the new Hondas pilot or any of that class .
d) the weight difference of the awd vs the fwd is irrelevant to stopping distances, as a matter of fact when compared one to the other, the awd stopped 7 feet shorter , accelerated faster and had a better handling capability ( tires are the only factor). http://www.motortrend.com/cars/mazda/cx-9/2016/2016-mazda-cx-9-touring-fwd-first-test-review/
e) as an experienced driver over different types of roads and specially mountain roads there is no way a fwd car , suv or whatever would be more efficient and safer than an awd, that is total nonsense .. specially with no experienced drivers that wont be able to deal with oversteering or understeering in 90% driving situations.
f) Thaumaturge, I accept ur challenge to beat me in a same hp car one rwd the other all wheel drive car, suv etc over a sinous mountain road, and id double the wage if its raining .. that's gonna be fun . let me get u 2 of my fav roads, Ayacucho - lima , Ticlio ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmYqoeKvcPE ) , just google and youll know why I have certain knowledge of the traction capabilities of each. ( a audi s3 eats m135s or 235s as dessert in any sinous mountain (roads mentioned above) wet road, its even hilarious the difference specially if ur no professional driver) .
g) in my country ( peru) we have a lot of surfing beaches, where you have to drive over sand for a while to reach them , no fwd suv would be able to , ok perhaps if you put 10.5 inch dessert duelers on it and still ud be in trouble. so as a fact, awd cars aren't just a marketing factor as said on this blog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUIGZTfjP1o
h) tires are the most important factor in questions of traction in every weather condition. that , is a fact but the tire adds performace in both cases equally, awd and fwd.
to every one, I certainly believe that if u live in a place with extreme weather conditions u and ur family will be much safer in an awd car than in a 2wd car.
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Not sure if your claims are scientifically backed up but I highly doubt it. From my experience and this is just experience having both vehicles with FWD and AWD as I've stated on my previous post the AWD definitely has an advantage over FWD and is not a "marketing". If logic is used, 4 wheels with some sort of power whether 50/50 split or 80/20 front and back is better than 2 wheels even at 100%. I've been driving in snowbelt areas for years on an AWD vehicle as well as FWD vehicles and I can definitely tell the difference in driving and handling - not marketing gimmick. Oh and by the way, I use winter tires during winter season on both FWD & AWD vehicles...
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deepfriedsushi
Member
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- 95 Miata, 14 CX5 Touring FWD, 18 CX9 GT FWD
Going back to the OP's original concern, I am questioning the same thing. As someone who lives in sunny San Diego and not test driven a FWD cx9 yet, how is it's drivability in dry/wet conditions?
I know FWD is all I would really need in this type of climate, but with 310lbft at low RPMs, I would imagine it's easy to trigger traction control or wheel spin with aggressive throttle application. Is it easily triggered when the car is loaded? On a hill? Thoughts?
For reference, I've driven many miles in a 2014 FWD MDX and a 2016 FWD V6 Sorrento and had no issues with traction. However, they don't have 310lbft of torque at 2000rpm. I've test driven an AWD CX9 and traction was not an issue, as expected.
Hey Deepfried..
I have owned as you fwd and all wheel drives v6 suvs, non of which u will ever notice is they are awd or fwd in normal city conditions torque is delivered slowly at the rev range, while on the CX9 you have the torque delivery of the 310lbft instantly . . , I have the all wheel drive CX9 and just to say that in my country there is no FWD option.
Said this, you are also right that you will be "wheel spinning" all the time and the traction control will be working all the time. It is really something the amount of instant torque you have in this suv, not only the number, but how quickly it is delivered to the road, usually in turbo engines there is a wait ( lag) time for power to come , in this case its really fast.
I would always recommend he awd, it really works amazing while driving on twisted roads and low traction ones.
G
Guest2017
Wheel spin on an uneven incline that cuts across the longitudinal axis of a vehicle has little if anything at all to do with direct perpendicular traction at a 90-dgree angle on a surface covered in snow. They are two entirely different types of traction behavior.
The Owners Manual tells the owner of the CX-9 to not operate the vehicle off-road. That same manual tells the new owner of the CX-9 that the CX-9 was not designed to be an off-road vehicle. Driving in the snow may or may not be an off-road proposition and Mazda has actual video of the CX-9 being driven in the snow - but only for the purpose of demonstrating its AWD capabilities. Somehow, people have managed to link AWD with Off-Road when the two may or may not be linked as a strict matter of engineering design intent.
Now, when it comes to the CX-9's AWD road handling capabilities, I'll put my CX-9 with my driving skill and experience up against any other SUV in its Category and Price Range. I'll take that bet any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
The AWD Road Handling capability of this vehicle is nothing short of amazing. Trust me - I know what I'm talking about here. I routinely push the CX-9 well beyond where most of its owners dare to take it. I do it because its fun and the engineers at Mazda made it possible.Now, if we are talking Off-Road Handling Capabilities, then I prefer the Toyota 4Runner Pro, to be quite honest. I would prefer the FJ Cruiser, but Toyota, in its infinite 'wisdom' decided to kill that vehicle - which I think was a mistake. They should have made it better and then reintroduced it to a new breed of brand new off-road drivers such as myself. Having said that and knowing about the clear stipulations given by Mazda regarding off-road driving in the CX-9, I've seen it driven off-road and through some modest dry trenches using nothing more than a set of summer tires.
If Fire Trails are your idea of "Off-Roading" then the CX-9 is far more than capable of handling that day trip in a level of style of comfort that most others in its price range and category cannot match. But, if you are considering something other than mere Fire Trails, I would suggest actually reading the Manual and warn against it.
Again, AWD being made synonymous with Off-Road Capability is not necessarily correct. An Off-Road vehicle designed for that purpose must have an AWD system, else it won't be much of an Off-Road machine at all. However, an AWD system can be made part of a vehicle not designed for Off-Road operations. This seems quite clear.
What happens when those "paved mountain roads" start getting hit with sheets of rain, snow flurries, then outright snow? What happens when both rain and snow fall at the same time creating slush on those same paved mountain roads? Who would feel more comfortable behind the wheel of a vehicle with only FWD in that scenario? I accidentally got caught in my Corvette (RWD) up in the Sierras when Wet Snow began falling. It was terrifying to feel the back-end constantly sliding out from underneath the vehicle. Super cooled wet snow hitting the ground and turning into ice for a brief moment was the Corvettes nightmare and mine too. I checked the weather before the trip, but even the best weather planning can go wrong sometimes. A good AWD system would handle those scenarios with far better dexterity.
Ok, you're on. If you live out where I do, I've got canyons galore to test that theory. Be warned however, these are real canyons with real cliffs and real winding roads that really bite if you get it wrong.
Ok, this is getting a little out of hand. Blowing by other AWD vehicles in an RWD FRS during a slow blizzard and merely stating it as a "fact," I think misses the point entirely. The question is Margin of Safety relative to the technology you bring to the road. A CX-9 with its AWD and appropriate tires for the conditions, will far outperform any RWD FRS with its appropriate tires for the conditions. There is no comparison between AWD and RWD, given both vehicles maintain a proper set of tires for the conditions AND with drivers that know how to drive in said conditions. You can take any novice driver, or someone who has little to no experience driving in the snow, put them in an AWD vehicle with snow tires and they can still roll their vehicle by driving beyond the limits of traction. If you keep the vehicle within its limitations, no RWD FRS will ever outperform an AWD CX-9 in the snow.
G
Guest2017
I think you have a good point. We need a thread to discuss The Overconfident Untrained AWD Driver vs The Overconfident Self-Taught RWD Driver.
