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- CX5
I'm no expert but perhaps country temperature, pollution and humidity may also have something to do.
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Your first oil change!
- Thread starter onlyricko
- Start date
This is an interesting topic, and one that could be argued till the end of time I guess. I recently initiated another conversation with the well known engine builder I know about the subject, and here is a pointed summery of our conversation. (from memory so I could have some of it a little wrong)
1) Modern oils are extremely difficult to break down under non-racing environments (typical road driving). Basically says, even some of the cheapest oils are very resilient. The oil hasn't been a problem in 20+ years.
2) Modern oil filters are better is some ways, and not others. Good (less media tear potential and more reliable bypass valves). Bad (overall less filtering volume). He still believes the "weak link" is indeed the filter.
3) Modern engines tend to have slightly tighter clearances in some area's (Cam,Crank,Piston-Bore), but use better material, process and support structure. So while smaller particulate can have an adverse effect on some sections of an engine, the material and processes help mitigate harm so it's not noticed.
4) It doesn't matter how well an engine and it's respective parts are designed, manufactured, cleaned, and assembled (race or road), they ALL will throw off metal and other particulate during and after the break-in process. If everything goes well, the filter will remove the larger more destructive material before it ever has a chance to cause noticeable damage.
5) Always, without exception follow at least the minimum manufacture requirements for warranty procurement, but increase intervals for better long term life.
This is the reason why he highly recommends changing the oil and filter on new engines at 1k and then 3K. After which he recommends 3-5K, but not because of oil break down, but because of filter volume and media tear. He again stated as the media in the filter loads up, the bypass will open at lower engine RPM's (less filtering)
He did make it a point to note the difference between noticeable and unnoticeable damage. Something like unnoticeable damage = premature wear that you may or may not ever notice. While noticeable damage could result in loss of performance, function or catastrophic failure. Most manufacturers are only interested in what he calls noticeable damages.
If I understood everything he was saying, and I'm sure I didn't (cabpatch). I took this main point away from the conversation. It's important to find a balance between waste and acceptable damage/wear, because the cleaner the oil the better protected my engine is against internal wear/damage.
For me, I'm going to stick with his advice, which I've been following for quite a long time, and have never had any internal engine failure.
1) Modern oils are extremely difficult to break down under non-racing environments (typical road driving). Basically says, even some of the cheapest oils are very resilient. The oil hasn't been a problem in 20+ years.
2) Modern oil filters are better is some ways, and not others. Good (less media tear potential and more reliable bypass valves). Bad (overall less filtering volume). He still believes the "weak link" is indeed the filter.
3) Modern engines tend to have slightly tighter clearances in some area's (Cam,Crank,Piston-Bore), but use better material, process and support structure. So while smaller particulate can have an adverse effect on some sections of an engine, the material and processes help mitigate harm so it's not noticed.
4) It doesn't matter how well an engine and it's respective parts are designed, manufactured, cleaned, and assembled (race or road), they ALL will throw off metal and other particulate during and after the break-in process. If everything goes well, the filter will remove the larger more destructive material before it ever has a chance to cause noticeable damage.
5) Always, without exception follow at least the minimum manufacture requirements for warranty procurement, but increase intervals for better long term life.
This is the reason why he highly recommends changing the oil and filter on new engines at 1k and then 3K. After which he recommends 3-5K, but not because of oil break down, but because of filter volume and media tear. He again stated as the media in the filter loads up, the bypass will open at lower engine RPM's (less filtering)
He did make it a point to note the difference between noticeable and unnoticeable damage. Something like unnoticeable damage = premature wear that you may or may not ever notice. While noticeable damage could result in loss of performance, function or catastrophic failure. Most manufacturers are only interested in what he calls noticeable damages.
If I understood everything he was saying, and I'm sure I didn't (cabpatch). I took this main point away from the conversation. It's important to find a balance between waste and acceptable damage/wear, because the cleaner the oil the better protected my engine is against internal wear/damage.
For me, I'm going to stick with his advice, which I've been following for quite a long time, and have never had any internal engine failure.
Probably the most sensible post I've seen yet on this subject.
When I take possession of my new car next month, despite what I'm reading here,
and definitely despite what the Honda Odyssey owners manual says, I'll be doing the first oil change very early in it's life.
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- CX5
Mazda didn't change the oil and filter in my first 1,000 check up.
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- 2022 2.5GT
Well I’m not going to follow that advice because it goes with engines from the 1970s. Modern engines and oil don’t generate nearly enough debris to clog a filter in even double the European mileage. The risk comes from water and chemicals which are the by product of combustion and condensation. 12500 miles or one year is more than enough providing the diesel doesn’t dilute the oil.
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It's probably something you would have to ask for.
These days, I doubt Mazda or any other car brand would change the oil at the 1,000 mark unless asked.
I understand what you're saying.
We've come a long way in the last 30 years with oils and engines, no doubt.
I guess I'm a bit old school when it comes to oil changes though.
I have a hard time letting my cars go for a year, or for more than about 5-6K miles, without an oil change.
It's a hard habit to break/change.
I've never owned a diesel either, so I can't comment on those.
Looking forward to going home soon and picking up my new 6. I'll ask at the dealership what they think about service intervals.
Cheers for now.
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- CX5
I did. They said there's no need.
NelsonLewis
Banned
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- 16.5 CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech BRMica
They're totally correct. Glad they didn't try to get you to waste money...
After my third 20K Oil change - I will turn on the variable change option to see how it behaves. A dealer in DFW specifically said do not turn it on as it recommends a change after 12K and he has seen engines blow up which sounds bulls***.
Ideal for a vehicle of this type would be 8-12K miles for 2.5L engines. That would save money and avoid unnecessary oil changes. Most cars now have a lifetime of 150-250K miles due to accidents / insurance totaling cars left and right / obsolesce because of new technology . At some point - a 1500 dollar repair will total an old beater so being inch perfect with your oil strategy matters not, only not being stupid matters.
If you can afford it, for the sake of safety and modern gadgets driving something beyond 150K miles is a no no in my book unless its some sort of an iconic car which CX5 is STRICTLY NOT.
Drive it change oil every 6K miles, if you are OCD about 3K miles change up - your money and you can toss it in the pit whenever you want.
Ideal for a vehicle of this type would be 8-12K miles for 2.5L engines. That would save money and avoid unnecessary oil changes. Most cars now have a lifetime of 150-250K miles due to accidents / insurance totaling cars left and right / obsolesce because of new technology . At some point - a 1500 dollar repair will total an old beater so being inch perfect with your oil strategy matters not, only not being stupid matters.
If you can afford it, for the sake of safety and modern gadgets driving something beyond 150K miles is a no no in my book unless its some sort of an iconic car which CX5 is STRICTLY NOT.
Drive it change oil every 6K miles, if you are OCD about 3K miles change up - your money and you can toss it in the pit whenever you want.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
what this dealer said is not necessarily bad advice...
3k is too often. 8k onwards starts to become too long. just follow Mazdas recommendation of 5k or 7.5k (city driving or highway respectively) and you're good to go. this topic is seriously starting to get blown out of proportion. it is engine oil.
The moly oil is easily good for 7500 miles and probably more but a uoa would be the definitive way to find out for sure. The bigger issue is fuel dilution. How you drive your car is the big thing here. For those who short trip mostly in the city, fuel dilution is a problem. I recommend taking your Mazda out for a nice highway ride once a week. These SkyActiv engines like to run, not just go to stores and shops etc.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
The most sensible post on this subject yet it's based on a "well known" engine builder's opinion against car manufacture's recommendations designed by many engineers and the reports from many used oil analysis (UOA)?
Here is BlackStone Oil Report (UOA) on a member's factory-filled oil used for the first 5K miles in his 2016 CX-5 Sport:
My sample just got in.
About my location and driving habits:
- I don't really experience temperatures below freezing (typical So Cal weather)
- I always allow my CX-5 to warm up till the RPM settles (I timed it once and it was about 22 seconds)
- About 60/40 Hwy/City. Hardly any short trips. I work in construction and bounce between jobs alot so sometimes the commute is all open highway, sometimes its all highway but with 30 miles of stop and go traffic all the way home.
- Driving style: on a scale of 1-10 (10 being really aggressive) I rate myself a 6.
- Lastly, only 4 tanks since ownership was filled with 91 octane gas, the rest with 87.
My first sample:
So it looks like the factory fill is probably Mazda Oil with Moly. TBN shows that I could have stretched it out a lot longer. So for those with brand new CX-5's, stretching out the OCI to 7.5K miles should be no problem. I am going to shoot for 8K mi OCI and will report back.
Here is another factory-filled oil UOA from a 2015 Mazda 3i Sport posted on the Bob Is the Oil Guy which indicates the same thing - molybdenum content is very high at 608 and the factory-fill is probably Mazda Oil with moly.
These 2 samples of UOA prove there's no issue to use factory-filled oil in our CX-5 well beyond 5K miles. Here is another UOA with 5,370 miles on Mazda moly oil from a 2015 CX-5 GT AWD with 20,873 miles. It also showes the oil can go 7,500 mile suggested by BlackStone Laboratories.atxmazdahonda said:
BTW, it's not just the Honda Odyssey owner's manual saying "Do not change the oil until the recommended time or mileage interval shown in the maintenance schedule" during the break-in period, but this applies to all Honda models until "Maintenance Minder" came out which will automatically calculate the right time for the first oil change. Even for 2017 Honda's, it still has an oil change service without oil filter replacement when code "A" is displayed on "Maintenance Minder" indicator. And we all know how tiny the Honda OEM oil filter is, right?A dedicated thread was mentioned for oil analysis tests so I will start this thread off with mine. I realize there are numerous other threads with oil reports. Hopefully this one will be easier to find.
Just came in about 10 minutes ago.
Looks overall good to me
What are thoughts on the higher viscosity?
I did change on cold motor and at around 1/3 of a drain I took sample
I sure wish the pre-'16s allowed for the extended drain intervals.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
For 2016 CX-5 the Flexible OCI has upper limits at 12 months and 10,000 miles. The wrench indicator and Oil change due message will be displayed if either of these limits reached. For 2017 CX-5 the limits have been lowered to 12 months and 7,500 miles. Of course you need to use Mazda recommended oil for more accurate calculation.
From my experience usually my Mazda moly oil has 30~40% oil life left for 5,000 miles driven in mostly city traffic. And my DFW dealer has no issues to turn on Flexible OCI.
12,000 miles Flexible OCI? Itll never happen ⋯
Bah! I'm at 5000 miles on flex oil with the moly and I'm at 80%.For 2016 CX-5 the Flexible OCI has upper limits at 12 months and 10,000 miles. The wrench indicator and “Oil change due” message will be displayed if either of these limits reached. For 2017 CX-5 the limits have been lowered to 12 months and 7,500 miles. Of course you need to use Mazda recommended oil for more accurate calculation.
From my experience usually my Mazda moly oil has 30~40% oil life left for 5,000 miles driven in mostly city traffic. And my DFW dealer has no issues to turn on Flexible OCI.
12,000 miles Flexible OCI? It’ll never happen ⋯
Wow, people really get their panties in a wad over this subject. Why in the world would anyone care if someone else' 'wasted' their money on what some would consider premature oil changes? Strange bunch here..
Anyway... Riddle me this.. Does Mazda have ANY maintenance schedule for SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY automatic transmissions in the owners manual? I will assume the SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY automatic transmission doesn't need any form of maintenance because the manufacturer said so right?
Anyway... Riddle me this.. Does Mazda have ANY maintenance schedule for SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY automatic transmissions in the owners manual? I will assume the SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY automatic transmission doesn't need any form of maintenance because the manufacturer said so right?
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GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
Yes. Skyactiv ATF fluid has magical anti-wear properties never before seen in transmission fluid, negating the need for normal transmsision servicing. You just gotta replace the whole transmission at Mazda for $5000 every 60k miles instead.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
67K miles on mine, and it's doing just fine. Unlike some members here who changed their fluid and their transmissions later died and all...
Seems you only want to throw out the "Mazda knows what they are doing..." when you agree with it, rofl!
NelsonLewis
Banned
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- 16.5 CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech BRMica
True dat!
