Brake Upgrade

Getting new rotors and making only one trip to the parts store, or no trips if I use mail order, and being able to have a drivable car after one session, is worth the $30 or so more over having the rotors turned.

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Well looks like I'm going against the grain here.

OP is asking about brakes on his Mazda6....not a CX-5. The Mazda6 is a faster vehicle and its rear rotors are smaller in diameter than the CX-5's.

Unlike stock BMW brakes which are the bomb diggity, the Mazda6's 3rd gen brakes (pads made by TRW) didn't feel reassuring to me. I installed blank EBC premium rotors (made in Europe/UK) and their cheapest ceramic pads on my 6. I now experience less brake fading in constant stopping. OEM rotors at 30k miles had many grooves felt and with slight glazing on surface area. So far at 5k miles the EBC premiums have more of a mirror like finish, smooth surface, and no glazing. It's too early to tell long term but so far so good on this kit. I like that it is dipped (in black). Not sure if this helps provide a smooth surface for hot air to dissipate from vents vs internal rusted vent surfaces? In the end I'm very happy with the stopping power for the price. Its U.S. $99 shipped for front rotors/pads for your 2015 mazda6.

Where the Mazda6's rotors (front) have grooves and pads wore down to 3-4mm after 30k miles the 2013 CX-5 at 72k miles is still on OEM brakes and rotors are smooth.

I don't know if you deleted your message or what happened, but thank you for this informative response, this was exactly what I was looking for.

are the rotors in the 6 also made by TRW? I have 50k miles on my car, and the brakes all around look perfect, but I am not impressed with the rotors from the factory. when it's time for a brake change, I will look into EBC rotors, but I still need to decide what pads I will be going with. I am quite happy with the factory pads and overall pedal feel/stopping power for stock to be honest.
 
You'll never know unless you try, but it sounds like you don't need an upgrade based on what you're describing regarding the brakes on your car.

well honestly, I'm very glad to have a 2015 model then because the brakes on this car VS. the newer models are far better. My brakes are perfectly fine for stock, but I'm just looking for a slightly firmer pedal with a bit less pedal travel.

What do you guys mean by "modulating the brakes"?

like when you are driving and you are trying to stop linear and smoothly, you need to modulate the brakes and adjust the amount of stopping power required depending on whats going on in front of you. I find the Mazda to be very good with this, better then in the BMW because of that complex 8 speed ZF trans downshifting seamlessly as you brake and the regenerative braking which charges your better, which messes with the coasting of the car a little bit and makes modulating the pedal for a smooth stop more difficult.

you were saying earlier that pads don't affect how firm the brake pedal will be, I thought that a slightly better pads, something closer to german OEM stuff would give you a firmer pedal and more bite? also, CX-5um mentioned the new rotors he got that have a more shiny finish to them VS stock. is this what I should go for if I want that german braking feel?
 
well honestly, I'm very glad to have a 2015 model then because the brakes on this car VS. the newer models are far better. My brakes are perfectly fine for stock, but I'm just looking for a slightly firmer pedal with a bit less pedal travel.



like when you are driving and you are trying to stop linear and smoothly, you need to modulate the brakes and adjust the amount of stopping power required depending on whats going on in front of you. I find the Mazda to be very good with this, better then in the BMW because of that complex 8 speed ZF trans downshifting seamlessly as you brake and the regenerative braking which charges your better, which messes with the coasting of the car a little bit and makes modulating the pedal for a smooth stop more difficult.

you were saying earlier that pads don't affect how firm the brake pedal will be, I thought that a slightly better pads, something closer to german OEM stuff would give you a firmer pedal and more bite? also, CX-5um mentioned the new rotors he got that have a more shiny finish to them VS stock. is this what I should go for if I want that german braking feel?

Hmm, there’s a lot of conjecture here I’m afraid. To start with, the pedal feel has very little to do with the foundation brakes (front and rear calipers, discs and pads), it is all to do with the servo and how it is calibrated. You didn’t try exhausting the vacuum otherwise you would know what I mean.

As for modulating, I think I know what you mean but that isn’t the true definition as understood by brake engineers worldwide. Modulating is the pulsing of the brake line pressure in order to achieve continuous rotation of the wheel. In the old days it was practiced as “cadence braking” or anti lock braking by literally pressing and releasing the brakes. In a modern hydraulic system, it is done very quickly by the ABS pump - it modulates the pressure for you.

These EBC pads made here in the UK have never been used by BMW or any other brake or vehicle manufacturer - they would not make it through the door so they can only play at aftermarket pads. What are ceramic pads? Well they certainly aren’t ceramic! Most modern brake pads have a high inclusion of steel fibre. This is the framework that holds all the pad together like a scaffolding if you like. What EBC mean is that the include some ceramic fibre in the mix. Sometimes they extrude it and sometimes they fire shot to smash it. It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference to performance but it can reinforce the pads at higher temperatures. No use whatsoever on a normal road unless you are slightly mad when you get behind the wheel. The ceramic you get in a pad from EBC will hardly be noticeable. These smooth discs you speak of. Does he mean before fitting or after bedding? Ideally, discs will be ground and not turned so in that respect, the smoother the better.

Does that answer your questions??
 
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Hmm, there’s a lot of conjecture here I’m afraid. To start with, the pedal feel has very little to do with the foundation brakes (front and rear calipers, discs and pads), it is all to do with the servo and how it is calibrated. You didn’t try exhausting the vacuum otherwise you would know what I mean.

As for modulating, I think I know what you mean but that isn’t the true definition as understood by brake engineers worldwide. Modulating is the pulsing of the brake line pressure in order to achieve continuous rotation of the wheel. In the old days it was practiced as “cadence braking” or anti lock braking by literally pressing and releasing the brakes. In a modern hydraulic system, it is done very quickly by the ABS pump - it modulates the pressure for you.

These EBC pads made here in the UK have never been used by BMW or any other brake or vehicle manufacturer - they would not make it through the door so they can only play at aftermarket pads. What are ceramic pads? Well they certainly aren’t ceramic! Most modern brake pads have a high inclusion of steel fibre. This is the framework that holds all the pad together like a scaffolding if you like. What EBC mean is that the include some ceramic fibre in the mix. Sometimes they extrude it and sometimes they fire shot to smash it. It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference to performance but it can reinforce the pads at higher temperatures. No use whatsoever on a normal road unless you are slightly mad when you get behind the wheel. The ceramic you get in a pad from EBC will hardly be noticeable. These smooth discs you speak of. Does he mean before fitting or after bedding? Ideally, discs will be ground and not turned so in that respect, the smoother the better.

Does that answer your questions??

your answers hint at an extremely knowledgeable individual and I appreciate the informative responses a lot. thank you.

Modulating the brake pedal is something I picked up from reading american car reviews like caranddriver, so I am not surprised at all that it is not the correct use of the term.

anyways, I've done some research, I have settled with either Centric or EBC rotors and will probably be going with TRW OEM pads again because they are low dust, or Textar because those have been proven on my BMW.

thanks again!
 
Hmm, theres a lot of conjecture here Im afraid. To start with, the pedal feel has very little to do with the foundation brakes (front and rear calipers, discs and pads), it is all to do with the servo and how it is calibrated. You didnt try exhausting the vacuum otherwise you would know what I mean.

As for modulating, I think I know what you mean but that isnt the true definition as understood by brake engineers worldwide. Modulating is the pulsing of the brake line pressure in order to achieve continuous rotation of the wheel. In the old days it was practiced as cadence braking or anti lock braking by literally pressing and releasing the brakes. In a modern hydraulic system, it is done very quickly by the ABS pump - it modulates the pressure for you.

These EBC pads made here in the UK have never been used by BMW or any other brake or vehicle manufacturer - they would not make it through the door so they can only play at aftermarket pads. What are ceramic pads? Well they certainly arent ceramic! Most modern brake pads have a high inclusion of steel fibre. This is the framework that holds all the pad together like a scaffolding if you like. What EBC mean is that the include some ceramic fibre in the mix. Sometimes they extrude it and sometimes they fire shot to smash it. It doesnt make a huge amount of difference to performance but it can reinforce the pads at higher temperatures. No use whatsoever on a normal road unless you are slightly mad when you get behind the wheel. The ceramic you get in a pad from EBC will hardly be noticeable. These smooth discs you speak of. Does he mean before fitting or after bedding? Ideally, discs will be ground and not turned so in that respect, the smoother the better.

Does that answer your questions??

your answers hint at an extremely knowledgeable individual and I appreciate the informative responses a lot. thank you.

Modulating the brake pedal is something I picked up from reading american car reviews like caranddriver, so I am not surprised at all that it is not the correct use of the term.

anyways, I've done some research, I have settled with either Centric or EBC rotors and will probably be going with TRW OEM pads again because they are low dust, or Textar because those have been proven on my BMW.

thanks again!
 
GJ, I fully accept that terminology varies considerably each side of the water. Its a learning curve for me a lot of the time!!!
 
anyways, I've done some research, I have settled with either Centric or EBC rotors and will probably be going with TRW OEM pads again because they are low dust, or Textar because those have been proven on my BMW.

thanks again!

As a fellow Mazda6 3rd gen owner...EBC Premium Rotors and their cheapest EBC ceramic pads for daily driving man. You can get front rotors/pads for $99 US dollars for your 2015 model at autoanything.com Not going to get into the whole OEM vs aftermarket debate but fact is I am extremely satisfied with the braking performance vs OEM.
 
Admittedly I don't know much about brake technology but I wanted to ask about a few things. First off is braided lines. Do they make them for the CX-5 and wouldn't that help with pedal feel since there is less loss of pressure in the lines vs the stock rubber ones?

Second, Looking at the centric brakes website they talk quite a bit about there E-coating on their rotors and how they stand up better to corrosion. That's a big plus for because I hate the look of rusty rotor hats. I actually need to do something about the rotor hats on my car as they are starting to show signs of rusting. Do you think painting them is alright to do or is that going to throw the balance off too much?

And 3rd, I attend quite a few vintage Triumph races with my uncle and cousin and everyone of the drivers swear by Frozen rotors. They all claim that last 3 times longer and resist warping much better then the standard rotors. I guess they deep freeze them for like 60+ hours or something and that's suppose to change the metal somehow. Anyone have thoughts on that?
 
As a fellow Mazda6 3rd gen owner...EBC Premium Rotors and their cheapest EBC ceramic pads for daily driving man. You can get front rotors/pads for $99 US dollars for your 2015 model at autoanything.com Not going to get into the whole OEM vs aftermarket debate but fact is I am extremely satisfied with the braking performance vs OEM.

Thank you. I will look into EBC when its time for me to change my brakes. I think I wont be going with ceramic though however.

Admittedly I don't know much about brake technology but I wanted to ask about a few things. First off is braided lines. Do they make them for the CX-5 and wouldn't that help with pedal feel since there is less loss of pressure in the lines vs the stock rubber ones?

Second, Looking at the centric brakes website they talk quite a bit about there E-coating on their rotors and how they stand up better to corrosion. That's a big plus for because I hate the look of rusty rotor hats. I actually need to do something about the rotor hats on my car as they are starting to show signs of rusting. Do you think painting them is alright to do or is that going to throw the balance off too much?

And 3rd, I attend quite a few vintage Triumph races with my uncle and cousin and everyone of the drivers swear by Frozen rotors. They all claim that last 3 times longer and resist warping much better then the standard rotors. I guess they deep freeze them for like 60+ hours or something and that's suppose to change the metal somehow. Anyone have thoughts on that?

The brake lines I mentioned earlier on in this forum. I strongly recommend you go through all the pages and have a read if youre interested, Anchorman made some excellent and informative posts describing our brakes and comparing them to BMW OEM stuff, which Is the s***.

Braided/ SS brake lines are a complete waste of money because rubber brake lines already have metal on the inside, so changing them out would make little to no difference with braking performance.

I suppose you can paint the inner hub of your rotor, but honestly I wouldnt try that. I think Id spray the rusty part with wd40 and give it a good scrub with a wire brush instead.

Centric is good stuff, definitely a good upgrade over stock. Based on my findings and experimentation, I found the stock pads on my Mazda 6 to be quite good and long lasting with low dust, but I am not impressed with the rotors. They warp quite easily and are not the best quality.

Ive never heard of frozen rotors or anything like that, but if you got a few people speaking highly about it then Im sure its no gimmick.

My suggestion for track use? Make sure that your front brakes have sufficient cooling. I would make some sort of duct in the front bumper right in front of the tires/brakes, that would be very helpful.

If you have higher mileage on your car and want to refresh your brakes, take everything apart, Lube the caliper sliding pins, clean everything with some brake cleaner and a wire brush, bleed the brakes all around and replace fluid, upgrade the rotors (and pads) if needed and youre good to go.

I dont know if these fit on a Mazda, but I recommend Zimmerman rotors. For the pads, take a look at Textar, TRW or EBC. Textar is an OEM supplier for my BMW and the pads are simply excellent for performance driving.

Cheers
 
The brake lines I mentioned earlier on in this forum. I strongly recommend you go through all the pages and have a read if you’re interested, Anchorman made some excellent and informative posts describing our brakes and comparing them to BMW OEM stuff, which Is the s***.

imho aftermarket steel braided lines have an achilles heel which is they may not fit as snug as OEM ones. BMW owners who race their cars could attest to them coming loose under hard conditions. So if installing ensure a reputable mechanic does it right. Otherwise stick to OEM brake lines. Besides, newer brake lines are not like ones from 20 years ago which are more rubbery and spongey.
 
Correction to my post. I knew I wasn't going crazy went I felt the car braked more aggressive than stock. At least one source I read indicates the Mazda3/6/CX-5 pads are TRW made in Japan "Ceramic pads". The pads I replaced them with are EBC Ultimax brake pads which I originally thought were ceramics but are indeed semi-metallic! Semi-metallic pads provide more bite than ceramics.

The noticeable braking characteristics I experienced weren't in my head after all but rather consistent when switching from ceramic pads to semi-metallic pads.

Those wanting a more aggressive braking experience via semi-metallics can get the EBC Ultimax I installed which is a low dust semi-metallic pad. In addition there is the EBC Green Stuff, Power Stop Street Performance pads,TruXP Performance pads.

Those wanting ceramics can get: TRW premiums (OEM), Posi Quiet Ceramics, EBC Red Stuff, TruXP Higher Performance Ceramics.


Did you say that our OEM pads are ceramic? I like them, they are good pads. I think its just the rotors which are lacking, so Ill be upgrading those in the future with ether EBC or Centric.
 
Did you say that our OEM pads are ceramic? I like them, they are good pads. I think it’s just the rotors which are lacking, so I’ll be upgrading those in the future with ether EBC or Centric.

Ahh....correction again. TRW does provide an aftermarket ceramic pad but researching the OEM pad per MedMazda our sponser here...it is semi metallic.

That tells me the OEM pads are actually pretty good as other folks here already suggested. That said our CX-5's rotors seem to hold up better than our Mazda6's rotors for the fronts anyways. Perhaps me changing the Mazda6 rotors which had physical grooves to new smooth rotors is what REALLY helped my braking experience.
 
Ahh....correction again. TRW does provide an aftermarket ceramic pad but researching the OEM pad per MedMazda our sponser here...it is semi metallic.

That tells me the OEM pads are actually pretty good as other folks here already suggested. That said our CX-5's rotors seem to hold up better than our Mazda6's rotors for the fronts anyways. Perhaps me changing the Mazda6 rotors which had physical grooves to new smooth rotors is what REALLY helped my braking experience.

thank you for this information regarding the TRW pads.

having had experience with the brakes that were originally on my BMW, I am tempting to go with zimmermann rotors and textar pads whenever I need new brakes.

textars dust quite a lot, but it is more then enough performance you will ever need for the street. zimmermann rotors are cheap for the performance, and the strength/resistance to warping they have is absolutely insane. good OEM stuff - this is a very effective setup.

https://www.autopartsway.ca/partlis.../allb/brake/drums-and-rotors/disc-brake-rotor

http://textar.brakebook.com/bb/textar/en_US/PKW/72/10884/105928/applicationSearch.xhtml

and here is some stuff from textar. they mentioned akebono for the rear axle or something... akebono makes very good ceramic pads, but stopping power is not as strong as textar (OEM BMW pad)
 
Unobtainium, I seriously recommend you stop doing 70-0 stops. That’s exactly what caused your brakes to warp. This is destructive to your brakes because when you stop, you are searing the hot pad against the rotor and warping them! Do not do this!

....and yet we have a brake engineer in this thread posting that some pads require your rotors be just shy of glowing red before they actually work optimally. You see any issue with the logic of a 70 to 0 stop overheating and warping a rotor yet?

Here’s a cautionary tale. Before we start, I spent 17 years testing and developing friction material for Ferodo. .... You’re going to get people telling you to buy greenstuff and red stuff and all sorts of stuff but my mate has just rebuilt his BMW 325 and fitted competition calipers and pads and now he can’t stop it. You have to look at the formulation and intended use and if you use competition pads they won’t start to work well unless you really push the temperature up toward 400C (the discs will glow cherry red at about 550C).
 
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They stop the disc from warping by having only one of the two plates that are either side of the disc attached to the hub. In some discs, the cooling grooves are angled to balance the heat dissipation. In other words, the thickness of each cheek of the disc, varies from the inner to the outer radius. Disc warping is very rare now. DTV - disc thickness variation, which causes judder, is very common.
 
They stop the disc from warping by having only one of the two plates that are either side of the disc attached to the hub. In some discs, the cooling grooves are angled to balance the heat dissipation. In other words, the thickness of each cheek of the disc, varies from the inner to the outer radius. Disc warping is very rare now. DTV - disc thickness variation, which causes judder, is very common.

So how do you propose that this happens, and then goes away 5 minutes later? So odd...
 
My OEM rotors on my CX5 have warped twice in 60,000 miles. My brother has a 2015 with 28,000 miles and his just went. My son had the same issue on his 2015 Mazda 3 and ditched the OEM and bought aftermarket, which in 30,000 seems to have cured this issue. I forgot to ask him what he bought, but will post when I find out. Mazda OEM rotors and pads seem to employ weight saving skyactive technology by making them a lot thinner compared to my OEM BMW brakes which not only have never warped, but lasted 3 times longer. Makes sense that thicker pads should last longer, but my question is do thinner rotors warp easier? Have those of you that switched to aftermarket eliminated your warping issues?
 
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