Transmission Service 2.5L Engine

Even if all Mazda transmissions were built on the same assembly line with the same batch of parts and assembled by the same worker, then driven in the same conditions with the same fluid, there would be a distribution of how long the transmissions would last in service.

If Mazda has a 60K power train warranty, I guarantee you they design and test their transmission to have nominal life well beyond 60K. In order to have, say less than 1% of the transmissions fail within warranty, they likely need their average failure to be well beyond 100K.
 
so as far as they give a crap 'lifetime fluid' equates to anything north of 60k..to which I'm calling bulls*** on both.
My 2001.5 VW Passat GLX V6 has a 5-speed manual. But the TipTronic automatic transmission for that Passat is sealed without a dipstick or a drain plug. The manual says it's the "Lifetime AFT" and no maintenance is required. Strangely when some Passat owners took the pan down and refilled with fresh VW OEM ATF, they're shocked to see that so-called "Lifetime ATF" has a 2-year shelf life printed on the bottle!

Not to mention the owner's manual recommends 10,500-mile timing belt replacement interval which is in-line with everybody else at the time. Strangely some owners found a sticker in the engine bay that says 60,000-mile timing belt replacement interval which actually was the interval used in Europe.

These're all marketing schemes to me by VW competing with others in the US market.

My 2000 BWW 528i has GM made StepTronic 5-speed automatic transmission and it's also a sealed unit without any maintenance interval according the owner's manual. But I agree with GJ-Molestor that it seems like a marketing scheme just like recommended oil change interval at 15,000 miles as BMW offers free maintenance thoughout warranty period.

And my 1998 Honda CR-V specifies an ATF drain-and-fill interval at 75,000/40,000 miles for normal/severe conditions. Added with specific drain-and-fill ATF amount which helps DIYers greatly without any ifs and buts. :)
 
I don't get your bmw argument at all..completely different, stretching comped service visits (via hugely better oils) with comped loaners has an immediate and significant impact to costs while mfgs saying lifetime atf costs them more $ short and long term than it saves no question in my mind. So lets say the tranny on your 1xxk mile cx5 that you 'neglected' by never changing atf and completely s**** itself, (wtf?) Mazda quotes you 4k (complete guess)..1. Are you really going to eat that 4k crapcake from Mazda who you feel betrayed you with a dodgy service schedule or 2. Save yourself a g or 2 from aamco/local shop to get the pos going again until you can cut and run like hell over to Subaru or Toyota or even gasp...Honda!

Bmw has adjusted down the mileage interval to 1yr/10k on 2014 and newer btw..probably lead them cutting free maint to 3/36 also..
 
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Still have the Mazda AT fluid and will change one of these weekends. I tow some with mine. In my GX even Toyota with their lifetime fluid recommends changes changes at 60k miles if you tow at all. Only problems I have ever had are AT flushes and vehicles that never had a fluid swap. Maybe wasted money to some with a partial swap but it certainly shouldn't cause an AT failure either. :)
 
Still have the Mazda AT fluid and will change one of these weekends. I tow some with mine. In my GX even Toyota with their lifetime fluid recommends changes changes at 60k miles if you tow at all. Only problems I have ever had are AT flushes and vehicles that never had a fluid swap. Maybe wasted money to some with a partial swap but it certainly shouldn't cause an AT failure either. :)

No, it shouldn't, but...I learned the hard way.


Old mustang GT, changed the fluid, died soon. It was 15+ years old, no real shock here.
2002 Infiniti G20, 110k miles. Was doing great. Changed the fluid (dealership) and filters (no flush, drop and swap only). Several thousand miles later torque converter shot, clutch bands shot, would barely shift, tons of warning lights, total replacement necessary.
2010 Grand Jeep Cherokee, 68k miles. Doing great. Changed the fluid in the transmission, (again, dealer, drop and swap only), and it developed tq converter judder at 45mph or so. Never did feel right again.


Now let's go to my 1995 Trans Am. 170k miles on it, driven hard, did 100% fine for me. Previous owner reported that at 120k miles, the tq converter "grenaded" and "sent shrapnel through the transmission", also, somehow, an axle was damaged...hmmm...my bet is neutral drop. Anyway, did well until I sold it at 170k.

Every vehicle my Dad's ever had with 200k+ miles on it...well, they were Fords, older fords, with the AODE transmissions, which were TERRIBLE, but he never changed the fluid. Just added trans-medic to them when they began slipping too bad. They were old cop cars that he used for work, and had the absolute crap beat out of them by the time he even got them (at 80-90k miles usually).

My roommate in college had a Nissan Frontier. Countless miles. Odo died. Trans was fine. OEM fluid. His girlfriend had a Lexus (older model) with like 300k miles on it. OEM fluid. Was fine. Engine began leaking oil though. His next girlfriend had a Camry or something in similar condition. OEM fluid was fine.

I dunno, I've just NEVER seen ANY good come of changing transmission fluid. I HAVE had, and seen plenty of vehicles to fine with the OEM fluid left the hell alone.
 
Not exactly stalwarts of reliability there but your point is taken. I disallowed a friend of mine to buy my 6MT 128 from me as he was driving distance for work and wasn't planning on running dedicated winter tires - living north of Danbury CT with no snow days really in an open diff rwd car that was too small for him anyway so I really felt like I was doing him a favor plus selling cars to friends is risky anyway. He mentioned he found a lightly used G37xS and we were both excited. I gave my blessing, everyone was happy until about 8 months in his transmission totally grenaded @35k- left him stranded- huge hassle, full replacement needed (covered thankfully) but I still felt bad and just have heard too many driveline issues w/Nissan over the years. Coworker had an old G20(aka Sentra in a suit) also which had some major things fail (can't recall exactly) but it wasn't good- had under 100k but I think he was out of warranty.
 
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No, it shouldn't, but...I learned the hard way.


Old mustang GT, changed the fluid, died soon. It was 15+ years old, no real shock here.
2002 Infiniti G20, 110k miles. Was doing great. Changed the fluid (dealership) and filters (no flush, drop and swap only). Several thousand miles later torque converter shot, clutch bands shot, would barely shift, tons of warning lights, total replacement necessary.
2010 Grand Jeep Cherokee, 68k miles. Doing great. Changed the fluid in the transmission, (again, dealer, drop and swap only), and it developed tq converter judder at 45mph or so. Never did feel right again.


Now let's go to my 1995 Trans Am. 170k miles on it, driven hard, did 100% fine for me. Previous owner reported that at 120k miles, the tq converter "grenaded" and "sent shrapnel through the transmission", also, somehow, an axle was damaged...hmmm...my bet is neutral drop. Anyway, did well until I sold it at 170k.

Every vehicle my Dad's ever had with 200k+ miles on it...well, they were Fords, older fords, with the AODE transmissions, which were TERRIBLE, but he never changed the fluid. Just added trans-medic to them when they began slipping too bad. They were old cop cars that he used for work, and had the absolute crap beat out of them by the time he even got them (at 80-90k miles usually).

My roommate in college had a Nissan Frontier. Countless miles. Odo died. Trans was fine. OEM fluid. His girlfriend had a Lexus (older model) with like 300k miles on it. OEM fluid. Was fine. Engine began leaking oil though. His next girlfriend had a Camry or something in similar condition. OEM fluid was fine.

I dunno, I've just NEVER seen ANY good come of changing transmission fluid. I HAVE had, and seen plenty of vehicles to fine with the OEM fluid left the hell alone.


Let me get this right your experiences in changing the transmission fluid included:

1. A 15-year old Mustang GT which is a performance car which by nature is hard on fluids and at 110k miles. Big mistake changing fluids at that point.

2. Infiniti G20. Although I could not find the data I'm pretty sure that Infiniti had a manufacturer fluid change interval for that model. You likely passed it. Considering the dealership offers to fluid change service, you could have changed the fluid at say 50k miles so if anything bad happens you're still under warranty. 110k miles is at high risk especially if you're driven it hard. -Here's a discussion post of 2006 model Infiniti owners whom have changed or about to change their fluids. http://forums.nicoclub.com/transmission-fluid-change-good-or-bad-idea-t545840.html

3. Your Dad's old cop cars with 200+k miles on them. Are you saying while those Police cars were in service doing high speed chases, running all day, and chasing bad guys NEVER had manufacturer recommended fluid interval changes done by their cities? Yikes!!

4. Your examples of friends with 300k mile cars with OEM fluid being "fine". What did the oil analysis say? I'm 100% sure the lubricant properties of the "fine" fluid had long since died and its the actual metallic shavings keeping those cars going. Recall that Moly (a metal) provides a lubricating property. 300k miles and not changing the fluid AND it runs fine with no slippage and is smooth? I guess it good to be lucky or BS or both LOL?


You just defined the 2 principle rules that we've been saying all along. That any reputable transmission shop will tell you (not hearsay or myths). 1. Change your transmission fluids as recommended by the manufacturer OR well before 100k miles. 2. If after 100k miles the risks start to outweigh the benefits. You're better off leaving it and if it starts to not be smooth you just have to live with it. For certain transmissions such as BMW transmission good luck finding a shop or even dealer to take your money on changing fluids after 100k miles. They'll refuse because they know the transmission will fail. Don't take my word for it or hearsay. Call a reputable transmission shop who see's transmissions all day every day. Call the BMW dealership. They'll tell you they won't be held responsible.
 
No, it shouldn't, but...I learned the hard way.


Old mustang GT, changed the fluid, died soon. It was 15+ years old, no real shock here.
2002 Infiniti G20, 110k miles. Was doing great. Changed the fluid (dealership) and filters (no flush, drop and swap only). Several thousand miles later torque converter shot, clutch bands shot, would barely shift, tons of warning lights, total replacement necessary.
2010 Grand Jeep Cherokee, 68k miles. Doing great. Changed the fluid in the transmission, (again, dealer, drop and swap only), and it developed tq converter judder at 45mph or so. Never did feel right again.


Now let's go to my 1995 Trans Am. 170k miles on it, driven hard, did 100% fine for me. Previous owner reported that at 120k miles, the tq converter "grenaded" and "sent shrapnel through the transmission", also, somehow, an axle was damaged...hmmm...my bet is neutral drop. Anyway, did well until I sold it at 170k.

Every vehicle my Dad's ever had with 200k+ miles on it...well, they were Fords, older fords, with the AODE transmissions, which were TERRIBLE, but he never changed the fluid. Just added trans-medic to them when they began slipping too bad. They were old cop cars that he used for work, and had the absolute crap beat out of them by the time he even got them (at 80-90k miles usually).

My roommate in college had a Nissan Frontier. Countless miles. Odo died. Trans was fine. OEM fluid. His girlfriend had a Lexus (older model) with like 300k miles on it. OEM fluid. Was fine. Engine began leaking oil though. His next girlfriend had a Camry or something in similar condition. OEM fluid was fine.

I dunno, I've just NEVER seen ANY good come of changing transmission fluid. I HAVE had, and seen plenty of vehicles to fine with the OEM fluid left the hell alone.

The Infiniti exploded several thousand miles later. Most likely had nothing to do with the fluid service.

I changed the fluid and filter in my BMW at 67k and the transmission is still running great several thousand miles later... much better then before.
 
One could always sniff out a few CPOs with ~60k miles and see if the Mazda dealer changed the transmission fluid. Could give some insight. Just a thought.
 
Not exactly stalwarts of reliability there but your point is taken. I disallowed a friend of mine to buy my 6MT 128 from me as he was driving distance for work and wasn't planning on running dedicated winter tires - living north of Danbury CT with no snow days really in an open diff rwd car that was too small for him anyway so I really felt like I was doing him a favor plus selling cars to friends is risky anyway. He mentioned he found a lightly used G37xS and we were both excited. I gave my blessing, everyone was happy until about 8 months in his transmission totally grenaded @35k- left him stranded- huge hassle, full replacement needed (covered thankfully) but I still felt bad and just have heard too many driveline issues w/Nissan over the years. Coworker had an old G20(aka Sentra in a suit) also which had some major things fail (can't recall exactly) but it wasn't good- had under 100k but I think he was out of warranty.

The Sentra in a Suit was actually a fun little car. It was simple enough I could turn wrenches myself, but it had a 6 disk CD changer, sunroof, and EVERY DAMN THING worked !!!! I was impressed for a 10 year old car. It was kindof a fun little tinker-toy, and got 31mpg doing 80 on road-trips, and 24-26 during my daily commute, driving it like a bat out of hell.

The main issue:

Motor mounts. THEY SUCK! THEY BREAK! OFTEN!
 
The Infiniti exploded several thousand miles later. Most likely had nothing to do with the fluid service.

I changed the fluid and filter in my BMW at 67k and the transmission is still running great several thousand miles later... much better then before.

The Infiniti didn't explode. It began slipping BADLY, and the error codes were clutch failures, engine/driveline speed missmatch (or whatever it said, same thing), etc.

I have a hard time not blaming that on the only thing done that affected that system in the last 110k miles when it happened right afterward.
 
Let me get this right your experiences in changing the transmission fluid included:

1. A 15-year old Mustang GT which is a performance car which by nature is hard on fluids and at 110k miles. Big mistake changing fluids at that point.
The GT sat in a yard for years, it kindof doesn't even count, honestly.

2. Infiniti G20. Although I could not find the data I'm pretty sure that Infiniti had a manufacturer fluid change interval for that model. You likely passed it. Considering the dealership offers to fluid change service, you could have changed the fluid at say 50k miles so if anything bad happens you're still under warranty. 110k miles is at high risk especially if you're driven it hard. -Here's a discussion post of 2006 model Infiniti owners whom have changed or about to change their fluids. http://forums.nicoclub.com/transmission-fluid-change-good-or-bad-idea-t545840.html I bought it at 110k, and they ASSURED ME that changing the fluid WOULD BE JUST FINE "It's not like a domestic that you had bad luck with before", they said...

3. Your Dad's old cop cars with 200+k miles on them. Are you saying while those Police cars were in service doing high speed chases, running all day, and chasing bad guys NEVER had manufacturer recommended fluid interval changes done by their cities? Yikes!!
This is correct, except they were sold at 80K miles to people like my Dad, who continued to flog them doing other jobs.

4. Your examples of friends with 300k mile cars with OEM fluid being "fine". What did the oil analysis say? I'm 100% sure the lubricant properties of the "fine" fluid had long since died and its the actual metallic shavings keeping those cars going. Recall that Moly (a metal) provides a lubricating property. 300k miles and not changing the fluid AND it runs fine with no slippage and is smooth? I guess it good to be lucky or BS or both LOL? The oil analysis said nothing ,because they didn't dick with them, and they kept running just fine. Yes, all of their cars ran fine transmission-wise. Now, they had other issues, suspension, engine leaks, etc. But the transmission weren't one of 'em.


You just defined the 2 principle rules that we've been saying all along. That any reputable transmission shop will tell you (not hearsay or myths). 1. Change your transmission fluids as recommended by the manufacturer OR well before 100k miles. 2. If after 100k miles the risks start to outweigh the benefits. You're better off leaving it and if it starts to not be smooth you just have to live with it. For certain transmissions such as BMW transmission good luck finding a shop or even dealer to take your money on changing fluids after 100k miles. They'll refuse because they know the transmission will fail. Don't take my word for it or hearsay. Call a reputable transmission shop who see's transmissions all day every day. Call the BMW dealership. They'll tell you they won't be held responsible.

The Jeep was done per mfr schedule. Still had issues. THAT is what sealed the deal for me. NO mas!
 
No Mazda dealers or transmission shops can flush a SkyActiv-Drive automatic transmission with thier ATF flushing machine as there's no ATF lines to hook up.

I really would like to know how did your Mazda dealer "uses a suction device to get to the fluid in torque converter"! If your dealer really applied some magic and sucked all ATF out of the torque converter, the cost of 8.2 quarts Mazda ATF FZ ($14.89 / quart list) for refill along is close to $130! (boom04)

The only way you get those ATF out of a torque converter I've seen is drilling a hole on it and plug it from a transmission shop. Do you really want to do that though? :)

yrwei52:
My number was based on transmission fluid change on a 2008 CX9.
Here you go....

97412 CPM 68.43 68.43
1 M194 ATF Flush Kit 36.25 36.25 36.25
10 MATF MULTI ATF 4.42 4.42 44.20
COUPON
CLDD -9.68 -9.68
COUPON
CPDD -5.20 -5.20
PARTS: 80.45 LABOR: 68.43 OTHER: -14.88 TOTAL LINE D: 134.00

10 gallons shown in receipt.
Not sure what kind of ATF you referred to....
 
And, about using a suction device.....
The service adviser told me that.
Seeing the 10 gallons of ATF used, I had no reason to doubt him.
 
And, my two cents.
Any thread on ATF change usually is very long.

It is very subjective and it is your money.
Do whatever you feel like.
"I have a friend whose .... " pointless argument, really.
One case does not make a rule.

I had two friends with BMWs (2005 and 2012) whose AT failed at 60K to 80K miles.
Regular drivers. AT replaced at $5000 @ dealer.
BMW refused to chip in even one dime. Yes, lifetime fluid.
Not a rule, either. Just citing more cases close to me.

So, your call.
If you sell your vehicle before 60K, what do you care?
You shouldn't.
 
No Mazda dealers or transmission shops can flush a SkyActiv-Drive automatic transmission with thier ATF flushing machine as there's no ATF lines to hook up.

I really would like to know how did your Mazda dealer "uses a suction device to get to the fluid in torque converter"! If your dealer really applied some magic and sucked all ATF out of the torque converter, the cost of 8.2 quarts Mazda ATF FZ ($14.89 / quart list) for refill along is close to $130! (boom04)

The only way you get those ATF out of a torque converter I've seen is drilling a hole on it and plug it from a transmission shop. Do you really want to do that though? :)
yrwei52:
My number was based on transmission fluid change on a 2008 CX9.
Here you go....

97412 CPM 68.43 68.43
1 M194 ATF Flush Kit 36.25 36.25 36.25
10 MATF MULTI ATF 4.42 4.42 44.20
COUPON
CLDD -9.68 -9.68
COUPON
CPDD -5.20 -5.20
PARTS: 80.45 LABOR: 68.43 OTHER: -14.88 TOTAL LINE D: 134.00

10 gallons shown in receipt.
Not sure what kind of ATF you referred to....
Your 1st-gen 2008 CX-9 has totally different transmission design than SkyActiv-Drive automatic transmission used in our CX-5, and the 2nd-gen CX-9. 1st-gen CX-9 has an ATF cooler inside of radiator with 2 ATF lines coming out to the ATF cooler and going back into the transmission. Your dealer used an ATF flush kit to hook up an ATF line to intercept and replace the ATF with an ATF flush machine. But SkyActiv-Drive AT circulates engine coolant into the transmission cooling down the ATF, hence the flush machine has nothing to hook up doing the ATF flush like traditional AT's.

Of course it's not 10 gallons but 10 quarts of ATF used for the ATF flush job to your 2008 CX-9. ;)

And SkyActiv-Drive transmission uses different ATF - Mazda Genuine ATF FZ which is more expensive than regular ATF.
 
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