Well I hope they stay independent. I really like Mazda because they are what they are. I don't want to see them be assimilated.
Mazda \ Toyota building a US plant
- Thread starter 7eregrine
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Well I hope they stay independent. I really like Mazda because they are what they are. I don't want to see them be assimilated.
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- 2021 CX-9 Sig
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- 2021 CX-5 GT
But not in the numbers Mazda needs.They are way too small to invest in producing those cars to not have them sell. The Miata is their loss leader. They don't need another...
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Mazda already has the 2.5 turbo motor from the CX9. They just need to juice it some more.
True that. A red Miata rf has been sitting on my dealers floor for months
NelsonLewis
Banned
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- 16.5 CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech BRMica
The Miata isn't a practical everyday driver like a 4 door STI and Type R type car. Kinda like the Honda S2000. Imagine that,not made anymore...
I'll never buy a Miata,along with just about everyone I know,but I'd buy a 4 door sports car with some power in a heartbeat (already have)...
Hell my own mom drives a V6 Accord,and that thing is a sleeper.
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I've wanted a Porsche Cayman 'forever' and am considering a used one as my weekend (mid-life crisis) car in ~8 years. But if Mazda were to build something relatively affordable, similar to a true coupe version of the Miata (or a non-rotary RX8 replacement) that would likely be far more reliable, cheaper to maintain etc...I'd definitely consider it.
Re: a performance model... I don't think the MazdaSpeed3 sold well enough to warrant a comeback. If I remember correctly, their production target was 5000/year and that was too much because they used to sit on the lots. Even in its worst years the MX-5 sold better. The MazdaSpeed6 was a flop and only lasted a couple years. The RX-8 sold strongly in its first couple years, but then sales tanked after that. Part of that was due a reputation for engine failures, but also the market changed.
The bigger problem right now is that sales of traditional cares i.e. compact sedans and family sedans have tanked in 2017. It seems unwise for a small volume manufacturer like Mazda to invest in a niche model in a declining segment. Nevertheless, I would be very tempted by a Mazda6 with a 2.5T and some sound deadening, especially if they offered the AWD model like in other markets.
The bigger problem right now is that sales of traditional cares i.e. compact sedans and family sedans have tanked in 2017. It seems unwise for a small volume manufacturer like Mazda to invest in a niche model in a declining segment. Nevertheless, I would be very tempted by a Mazda6 with a 2.5T and some sound deadening, especially if they offered the AWD model like in other markets.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
notice how volkswagen sells plenty of GTI's? I think its because of the more mature, toned down design. the old MS3 looked like a child's car. Mazda said themselves that the company is going down a different path and is parting ways with their old childish design. i think this will be the first step to achieving the sales figures they are looking for.
with that being said, they ARE going to make an AWD turbo 2.5 mazdaspeed 3 soon. it is going to be unveiled once they have finished making the skyactiv second gen. i dont think there are any plans for a mazdaspeed 6 though.
perhaps this market is declining because people are not finding the car they want? options are limited with basically a focus ST, GTI, and a subaru or whatever.
I agree that the previous MazdaSpeed3 was not a great looking car.
Car sales are in the tank because everybody is buying trucks and CUVs. Especially here in the US where gas prices have been down for the last 3 years. It doesn't make sense to me to chase after a niche of a declining segment. I think they would be better off making performance versions of their CUVs.
Car sales are in the tank because everybody is buying trucks and CUVs. Especially here in the US where gas prices have been down for the last 3 years. It doesn't make sense to me to chase after a niche of a declining segment. I think they would be better off making performance versions of their CUVs.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
That's doesn't make any sense because the typical person shopping for an SUV or cuv or whatever you want to call it is very likely not going to be looking for a performance version.. a little hot hatch or sedan customer is more likely to want a performance version because of that type of vehicle. This type of vehicle category may be declining, but they still did build a Miata which makes less sense then a mazdspeed 3 because it is not as practical.
I don't understand why you wouldn't buy a car from a declining market. If anything wouldn't it make more sense to support Mazda for building something that many of us have wanted for a long time? And buy one?
Just because the sedan market is declining, does NOT mean I'm going to buy a damn SUV or crossover. The Mazda 6 has awful sales figures in comparison to its competitors and it honestly feels good to support the brand by purchasing a car that you truly enjoy and feel passionate about. It's different from a crossover that just feels too high up and floaty to me.
Every purchase helps for a small car brand.
The Gen2 Mazdaspeed3 has a polarizing design. You either love it or hate it. The Nagare design language Mazda was using at that time, just didn't look as refined and classy as the Kodo design language they are using now. The Gen1 Mazdaspeed3 though was a pretty good looking sleeper.
Coming from or currently driving a Speed3, I would definitely consider buying a Miata. The Speed3 is too fast for the speed limits on most roads anyway. It is a blast on the highways though with its passing power (though it is very easy to end up overspeeding), but in city driving, you cannot wind out 2nd or 3rd gear and still be within the speed limits. With the Miata, you can have fun and drive 8/10 all the time and still be within the speed limit. Do that in the Speed3 and you risk losing your license.
Anyway, I hope this joint venture with Toyota will allow Mazda to put out some performance models. A signature trim CX-5 with the 2.5T would be awesome, as well as signature trim Mazda3s and Mazda6s with AWD and the 2.5T.
Coming from or currently driving a Speed3, I would definitely consider buying a Miata. The Speed3 is too fast for the speed limits on most roads anyway. It is a blast on the highways though with its passing power (though it is very easy to end up overspeeding), but in city driving, you cannot wind out 2nd or 3rd gear and still be within the speed limits. With the Miata, you can have fun and drive 8/10 all the time and still be within the speed limit. Do that in the Speed3 and you risk losing your license.
Anyway, I hope this joint venture with Toyota will allow Mazda to put out some performance models. A signature trim CX-5 with the 2.5T would be awesome, as well as signature trim Mazda3s and Mazda6s with AWD and the 2.5T.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
100% agree, and my thoughts exactly. Mazda is moving the brand image toward a more mature level and is upping luxury, but it's not hurting the driver involvement of the car. Things look good for Mazdaspeed in the future (I hope)
I doubt they will put the 2.5T into Mazda 3 (only the speed version will have it) but I don't think there will be a mazdaspeed6, so I really hope they put the 2.5T the Mazda 6. I did read somewhere that Mazda will infact be expanding the lineup with 2.5T, so fingers crossed...
And you are right about the acceleration in the Mazdaspeed 3. You are hard pressed to find many roads at all where you can wind out the engine without getting in trouble. So to me, what should be most important in a car is a car with accessible limits in the Miata like you said, or a car that gets up to speed effortlessly which is also great fun. Mazda, like BMW is well known for building very linear engines that make strong power from low RPM which is not only good for efficiency but it helps keep things exciting in a world full of speed limits and cops.
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At the moment, the "Mazdaspeed" brand/trim level is dead. They even dropped the logo/name from their race cars. They even renamed Mazdaspeed Motorsports to Mazda Motorsports. The new North American CEO was quoted saying something like, the new Mazdas don't need a Mazdaspeed model because they all should drive like a performance oriented car anyway. So, the Mazdaspeed models/trims will probably never come back. But the new Signature trims that Mazda is pushing out, could be the ones they use to drop the 2.5T engine into.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
Shame... but there were rumours of a Mazdaspeed 3 though? I mean... I guess no point in keeping my hopes up. What Mazda said more or less makes sense. They are basically saying that they are a small brand and can't afford to be investing in little performance markets like this, so all their cars should be performance driven instead. I did hear about the 2.5T being dropped into other models, so I have hopes for that.
Most of all, I just really wish they could use their 2.5L to build a 3.7L inline 6 and build RWD sports cars/sedans with it.. would be a truly amazing car.
Honestly, I think they should go to the European naming scheme with atenza and Axela.
OK, not everybody wants CUV. But an increasing number of people do.
And plenty of CUV buyers want a performance version. Luxury/performance CUVs have been selling great. And look how often people on this forum bring up a turbo option for the CX-5, like some of its competitors have. If adding a performance trim to the CX-5 could boost CX-5 sales by just 5%, that would be more sales than they ever got out of the MazdaSpeed3.
The Miata also sold considerably better than the MazdaSpeed3. It's kind of in a class of its own though.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
The Mazdaspeed 3 could easily have outsold the Miata if it ditched those childish boy racer looks. Put it more in line with the mature looking GTI.
I don't think the loyalists will be too pleased if Mazda shifting its focus toward cx-5 performance versions. You need to look at this from a marketing perspective... notice how the performance CUV's are in a different league all together in terms of price, like the Porsche Macan, whatever Mercedes makes, etc. The type of owner that is looking at mainstream CUV's like Toyota Nissan Honda and Mazda doesnt need, and is never going to buy a performance CUV, which is why the performance models should be best left to the sedans and hot hatches which are much more likely to attract buyers seeking performance (as long as Mazda can refine the design of its MS3 this time around)
