Why get AWD?

jthj · Jul 13, 2017

I think you're talking about torque vectoring. AWD in very high powered vehicles does help put down the power. Which is even more challenging while cornering. This is mostly marketing. Same with Subaru. Also Ford achieves it on FWD on the Focus ST by braking the inside rear wheel.

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jthj · Jul 13, 2017

And FWIW Mazda doesn't use torque vectoring.

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finch204 · Jul 13, 2017

Is it really not a valid scenario?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy3qyFeQOI

NelsonLewis · Jul 13, 2017

xtrailman said:
Not true the Bmw awd system actually aids cornering according to bmw.

Yep! And according to the test here at the BMW Performance Center, its true. There are a couple corners here where no way you can get aggressively on the gas in a FWD and not spin out,however, do the same in the exact same car with AWD, and it's a grab the OH ISH moment...

jthj · Jul 13, 2017

NelsonLewis said:
Yep! And according to the test here at the BMW Performance Center, its true. There are a couple corners here where no way you can get aggressively on the gas in a FWD and not spin out,however, do the same in the exact same car with AWD, and it's a grab the OH ISH moment...

Is it though. Or is it the torque vectoring voodoo? AWD on its own isn't going to help the cornering.

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NelsonLewis · Jul 13, 2017

jthj said:
I think you're talking about torque vectoring. AWD in very high powered vehicles does help put down the power. Which is even more challenging while cornering. This is mostly marketing. Same with Subaru. Also Ford achieves it on FWD on the Focus ST by braking the inside rear wheel.

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Have you ever slung that Focus ST into a corner hard and tried to accelerate? It's no different than any other FWD in that it fails miserable. The little added power can help to overcome some, but it's nothing to brag about...

xtrailman · Jul 13, 2017

When I bought my first awd car an Audi Quattro it opened my eyes to what was possible, with permanent AWD and a turbo petrol engine, that car would launch so quick from a standstill that I had to be careful not to run into other cars on islands.

With my fwd drive car with no TC the wheels could tramp if I tried to get a quick getaway.

jhu8 said:
What are you talking about?? I can't tell you how many times I see people flying up behind me at a red light because they're not paying attention. If this happens in rain, I am definitely safer to have AWD which(based on my testing) gets me moving absolutely right away versus FWD where I know I would start spinning upon slamming the gas pedal down. So yes, AWD is 100% a safety advantage.

NelsonLewis · Jul 13, 2017

jthj said:
Is it though. Or is it the torque vectoring voodoo? AWD on its own isn't going to help the cornering.

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Wanna come go for a ride? If you sincerely think AWD doesn't help with accelerating out of a corner hard, then we can go ahead and end the rest of this convo...

jthj · Jul 13, 2017

NelsonLewis said:
Have you ever slung that Focus ST into a corner hard and tried to accelerate? It's no different than any other FWD in that it fails miserable. The little added power can help to overcome some, but it's nothing to brag about...

Right AWD helps put power down in a highly powered car. I said that earlier. The vectoring is what enhances the cornering. I absolutely wish my ST had AWD to put that power down.

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finch204 · Jul 13, 2017

NelsonLewis said:
Yep! And according to the test here at the BMW Performance Center, its true. There are a couple corners here where no way you can get aggressively on the gas in a FWD and not spin out,however, do the same in the exact same car with AWD, and it's a grab the OH ISH moment...

It's because if I remember correctly, the BMW AWD system is rear wheel drive biased. This allows their drivers to throw out the tail and do some light powerslides/drifting. It will never happen in a FWD because it will just understeer, unless it is setup explicitly to oversteer like a Focus ST.

NelsonLewis said:
Have you ever slung that Focus ST into a corner hard and tried to accelerate? It's no different than any other FWD in that it fails miserable. The little added power can help to overcome some, but it's nothing to brag about...

It's because the Focus ST is lacking a front LSD. Front LSD does wonders for high powered FWD vehicles.

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I'm split on the idea of AWD helping the car corner better/faster. If torque vectoring is considered an AWD feature, then I guess yeah it helps it corner better/faster. If not, then no it doesn't really help cornering that much. It allows you to get on the power earlier when exiting the corner though for sure.

jthj · Jul 13, 2017

NelsonLewis said:
Wanna come go for a ride? If you sincerely think AWD doesn't help with accelerating out of a corner hard, then we can go ahead and end the rest of this convo...

It helps with accelerating out yes. The first bit in the cornering...... AWD can't give your tires more lateral grip. Torque vectoring though will rotate the car more. We're getting into nuances. My point is there is a lot more going on with what BMW and Porsche are doing (or Ford in the RS) that makes them handle like that than simply AWD.

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NelsonLewis · Jul 13, 2017

jthj said:
And FWIW Mazda doesn't use torque vectoring.

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You sure about that? Don't they call it GVC?

NelsonLewis · Jul 13, 2017

jthj said:
It helps with accelerating out yes. The first bit in the cornering...... AWD can't give your tires more lateral grip. Torque vectoring though will rotate the car more. We're getting into nuances. My point is there is a lot more going on with what BMW and Porsche are doing (or Ford in the RS) that makes them handle like that than simply AWD.

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Duh. I don't know what else to say...

jthj · Jul 13, 2017

NelsonLewis said:
You sure about that? Don't they call it GVC?

Watch the Motoman engineering deep dive on the CX-5 with David Coleman from Mazda. He specifically says GVC isn't torque vectoring. He explains what it does and what torque vectoring does.

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NelsonLewis · Jul 13, 2017

jthj said:
Watch the Motoman engineering deep dive on the CX-5 with David Coleman from Mazda. He specifically says GVC isn't torque vectoring. He explains what it does and what torque vectoring does.

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Another duh moment. Sorry. I tune drivetrains,suspensions, and tires to put power to the ground. I think I've read enough and put in enough man hours to understand Dave Coleman, although honestly, I couldn't careless what he says...

jthj · Jul 13, 2017

Ok so torque vectoring is actually trying to spin the outside and inside wheels at different rates rotating the car. GVC Reduces the torque output of the engine causing the front tires to load.

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NelsonLewis · Jul 13, 2017

jthj said:
Ok so torque vectoring is actually trying to spin the outside and inside wheels at different rates rotating the car. GVC Reduces the torque output of the engine causing the front tires to load.

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By 22 lbs. imagine that!

jthj · Jul 13, 2017

NelsonLewis said:
By 22 lbs. imagine that!

It's subtle for sure!

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jhu8 · Jul 13, 2017

Unobtanium said:
If you've seen my previous posts, that's where I've been leaning for quite some time (years, to be honest). Will see if I end up buying this house or not. I personally was not ready to buy, but you know, when you see something that REALLY tugs at your heart-strings...well...so I am working on getting pre-qualified for an RDA loan ($0 down, pretty sweet deal if you look into them, honestly).

Time will tell, but the financing agent, given my info, seemed quite up-beat.

Oh I know. Honestly if I had that kind of money, I'd probably get one. Things are bad ass.

I am looking to move in a couple years once I finish my masters and would love to move out in the country(guessing that's the rural part of the RDA). Problem is, I work at a hospital in the city and need relatively quick highway access. And I'll owe back time to the hospital for paying for my masters so I know I'll be there for a little.

jhu8 · Jul 13, 2017

xtrailman said:
When I bought my first awd car an Audi Quattro it opened my eyes to what was possible, with permanent AWD and a turbo petrol engine, that car would launch so quick from a standstill that I had to be careful not to run into other cars on islands.

With my fwd drive car with no TC the wheels could tramp if I tried to get a quick getaway.

Yeah I love it. In fact, not sure how can I own a non AWD car now lol

Why get AWD?

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