US Diesel's big splash introduction

Ford only offers a high performance engine? Lol

So VWs close to 300hp and Hondas 300+hp 4 bangers don't count?

Remember what class of vehicles the CX-5 competes in

If philsey is trying to compare a compact SUV to a performance or luxury car to make a point, it's probably not a good one
 
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I think what he means is Ford offers a high performance engine option for the model lineup. For instance, the Ford Escape, Edge and Fusion are available with base engines, or a high powered ecoboost engine. VW doesn't offer that, you have to get a totally different car, like you have to upgrade to a GTI or Golf R, but you cannot have a regular Golf with the high power engine. Same thing with the Honda Civic, you cannot get a regular Civic with the upcoming Civic Type-R engine. The Honda Accord is an exception here as you can get it with the V6.

Mazda also has this problem here in the States. They have a 2.5T engine, but you have to upgrade to the CX-9 to get it. It is not available for the Mazda3, Mazda6 or CX-5. The diesel engine option is probably their first ever "engine option" for an existing SkyActiv model.

Yea, I get it, I was just saying...

At least they're being smart and staying away from the diesel. ;)

The Fords are garbage to me. As much as I love a TC engine, it wasn't even an option for me. They are WAY overpriced too...
 
So?

Seriously, what's with the scary quotes? A bunch of people on this forum have posted that same line of "it's still a diesel" or something similar, as if it's supposed to mean something. Since 2010 or so, I've driven 7 or 8 different passenger cars with small diesels and they're great. All else being equal, for a daily driver I'd take a diesel over a gasoline engine.



By that logic, nobody should buy a new CR-V because not only is the 1.5T new to the US, it's new period.


It being a diesel does means something. It might offer better torque and fuel economy, but in the perception of many people in this country diesel is dirty, loud, and associated with the VW-scandal. Not to mention the fact that Mazda has zero presence in this country, and the fact that hardly any Japanese companies produce diesels for this market, it's doomed to fail. In this category, there is little incentive to buy a diesel over Hybrid when there are many other hybrid available.

We can debate all the technical details of gas vs details all we want, but in the end Mazda's job is to sell cars and selling a diesel option over a hybrid isn't going to work out well for them. The sales numbers show people buy these CUV/SUVs due to brand perception and practicality. Look at the new CX-9 for example. Great car, best in class IMO but yet it sits in 15th place in vehicles sold vs it's competitors. Why is that? Probably because it's a 'Mazda' and not a Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Ford...I don't see how offering a diesel is going to help practicality or their brand.

And the 1.5T engine is not new, it is used in the Civic/CRV and likely the upcoming Accord. But most importantly it's not a diesel. Think of it this way, if Honda offered a diesel in their CRV, who would buy it? Why would they buy it? There is no point. If potential CRV buyers wanted more power/torque, they would look at another vehicle and if they wanted better fuel economy, they would by a hybrid or wait for a CRV Hybrid(it's coming). Most Honda buyers wouldn't even think of buying a diesel.
 
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Oh Mango so concerned with the viability of Mazda and their strategy..are you a large shareholder? The cx9 is best in class as a drivers suv same as the cx5 but it misses on why most ppl buy larger 3 row cuvs in the first place..lots of space. Mazda doesn't have the production capacity or dealer network to sell anywhere close to Honda so please stop beating that horse. Obviously they want to grow and thriveas a business but I honestly believe they don't care to pump out as much cheap soulless garbage that everyone buys and most companies do nowadays...rogue anyone? Whatever you may ultimately be right that it may be too late (thanks cheater ass vw)and gas prices too low for a Mazda diesel to succeed at this point..but you know what that's what i love about them as a brand...they go their own way and seem to make sure all their cars are good to drive first.
 
A somewhat related question, is diesel fuel renewable? Can we use the existing corn agriculture here in North America to produce diesel in the future? I know it is being used to make ethanol fuel, but I don't know about diesel. If diesel fuel is renewable, then that is a plus. Gasoline prices won't stay this low and in the future we will run out of oil in the middle east. Okay it probably won't run out in the next 5 years, but just looking ahead. The future for cars is going to be electric and possibly some alternative fuels.
 
Oh Mango so concerned with the viability of Mazda and their strategy..are you a large shareholder? The cx9 is best in class as a drivers suv same as the cx5 but it misses on why most ppl buy larger 3 row cuvs in the first place..lots of space. Mazda doesn't have the production capacity or dealer network to sell anywhere close to Honda so please stop beating that horse. Obviously they want to grow and thriveas a business but I honestly believe they don't care to pump out as much cheap soulless garbage that everyone buys and most companies do nowadays...rogue anyone? Whatever you may ultimately be right that it may be too late (thanks cheater ass vw)and gas prices too low for a Mazda diesel to succeed at this point..but you know what that's what i love about them as a brand...they go their own way and seem to make sure all their cars are good to drive first.


Iv'e read several posts here from people stating their local deals have plenty of CX-5s that have been sitting on lots, so lets not pretend like Mazda's problem is they can't produce enough vehicles. How exactly does their lack of dealer network/production capacity have anything to do with the fact that their retention rate among existing Mazda owners in at the bottom of the list? It has nothing to do with dealer network/production capacity, and everything to do with brand perception, pricing, and practicality of their vehicles. They are not Honda/Toyota, they can't beat Nissan/Ford/GM on pricing(even though MSRP is similar, these brands offer substantial discounts off MSRP), and they don't offer any practicality type features like class leading cargo space, fuel economy, power, etc...which is why people avoid them. They're nice looking vehicles, they drive well but when it comes time to write that check people will go with the proven brands. And lets not pretend like Mazda wouldn't want to have Honda/Toyota type success. They want to sell as many cars as possible just like everyone else.

If the problem is what you say it is, why not increase dealer network/production capacity? Doesn't every company do this when their products are selling well? They're not selling well, which is why they don't have the money to increase dealer/production capacity/develop new engines, etc...in fact they haven't had 2% market share in over 20 years in this country, but yet the problem is a 'dealer network' or 'production capacity'. Uhh no, there cars just don't sell that well.
 
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It being a diesel does means something. It might offer better torque and fuel economy, but in the perception of many people in this country diesel is dirty, loud, and associated with the VW-scandal. Not to mention the fact that Mazda has zero presence in this country, and the fact that hardly any Japanese companies produce diesels for this market, it's doomed to fail. In this category, there is little incentive to buy a diesel over Hybrid when there are many other hybrid available.

We can debate all the technical details of gas vs details all we want, but in the end Mazda's job is to sell cars and selling a diesel option over a hybrid isn't going to work out well for them. The sales numbers show people buy these CUV/SUVs due to brand perception and practicality. Look at the new CX-9 for example. Great car, best in class IMO but yet it sits in 15th place in vehicles sold vs it's competitors. Why is that? Probably because it's a 'Mazda' and not a Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Ford...I don't see how offering a diesel is going to help practicality or their brand.

And the 1.5T engine is not new, it is used in the Civic/CRV and likely the upcoming Accord. But most importantly it's not a diesel. Think of it this way, if Honda offered a diesel in their CRV, who would buy it? Why would they buy it? There is no point. If potential CRV buyers wanted more power/torque, they would look at another vehicle and if they wanted better fuel economy, they would by a hybrid or wait for a CRV Hybrid(it's coming). Most Honda buyers wouldn't even think of buying a diesel.

Agree

Iv'e read several posts here from people stating their local deals have plenty of CX-5s that have been sitting on lots, so lets not pretend like Mazda's problem is they can't produce enough vehicles. How exactly does their lack of dealer network/production capacity have anything to do with the fact that their retention rate among existing Mazda owners in at the bottom of the list? It has nothing to do with dealer network/production capacity, and everything to do with brand perception, pricing, and practicality of their vehicles. They are not Honda/Toyota, they can't beat Nissan/Ford/GM on pricing(even though MSRP is similar, these brands offer substantial discounts off MSRP), and they don't offer any practicality type features like class leading cargo space, fuel economy, power, etc...which is why people avoid them. They're nice looking vehicles, they drive well but when it comes time to write that check people will go with the proven brands. And lets not pretend like Mazda wouldn't want to have Honda/Toyota type success. They want to sell as many cars as possible just like everyone else.

If the problem is what you say it is, why not increase dealer network/production capacity? Doesn't every company do this when their products are selling well? They're not selling well, which is why they don't have the money to increase dealer/production capacity/develop new engines, etc...in fact they haven't had 2% market share in over 20 years in this country, but yet the problem is a 'dealer network' or 'production capacity'. Uhh no, there cars just don't sell that well.

Agree
 
Mazda convinced their fellow citizens... only time will tell here.

"Before Mazda introduced the first Skyactiv-D engines in Europe in 2011 and in Japan the next year, diesel penetration was just 1 percent of the Japanese market, where buyers are more enthralled with hybrids. But Japanese consumers gradually warmed to the technology.

Diesels now represent 8 percent of the Japanese market, and Mazda claims about half that volume, Kogai said. Mazda now offers diesel versions of its Mazda2 subcompact, Mazda3 compact, Mazda6 midsize sedan and CX3 compact crossover, in addition to the CX5. Diesels account for about 36 percent of Mazda's total volume in Japan."

http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/mazdas-small-diesel-finally-coming-north-america-despite-delays
 
Mazda convinced their fellow citizens... only time will tell here.

"Before Mazda introduced the first Skyactiv-D engines in Europe in 2011 and in Japan the next year, diesel penetration was just 1 percent of the Japanese market, where buyers are more enthralled with hybrids. But Japanese consumers gradually warmed to the technology.

Diesels now represent 8 percent of the Japanese market, and Mazda claims about half that volume, Kogai said. Mazda now offers diesel versions of its Mazda2 subcompact, Mazda3 compact, Mazda6 midsize sedan and CX3 compact crossover, in addition to the CX5. Diesels account for about 36 percent of Mazda's total volume in Japan."

http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/mazdas-small-diesel-finally-coming-north-america-despite-delays

I sure hope they can convince their fellow citizens. Lol

Unfortunately, a lot of Americans still see it as Jap Crap...
 
A somewhat related question, is diesel fuel renewable? Can we use the existing corn agriculture here in North America to produce diesel in the future? I know it is being used to make ethanol fuel, but I don't know about diesel. If diesel fuel is renewable, then that is a plus. Gasoline prices won't stay this low and in the future we will run out of oil in the middle east. Okay it probably won't run out in the next 5 years, but just looking ahead. The future for cars is going to be electric and possibly some alternative fuels.

Corn ethanol is a boondoggle. It makes neither environmental nor economical sense.
 
Corn ethanol is a boondoggle. It makes neither environmental nor economical sense.

It's so stupid, the whole corn subsidy thing. (I hope nobody in this thread is from that area!)

And ethanol in our gasoline. I hate it! Cheaper? Yeah, but less efficient. I try to find gas that doesn't have ethanol in it.
 
It's so stupid, the whole corn subsidy thing. (I hope nobody in this thread is from that area!)

And ethanol in our gasoline. I hate it! Cheaper? Yeah, but less efficient. I try to find gas that doesn't have ethanol in it.

+1. Except I don't care if they see it. Truth can hurt sometimes.
 
Well I drove 45 minutes from my house one way to service my car today..so that's a big part of the issue- people buy a) what they or their car guy family member or friend knows and b) what is convenient and distance to dealer and experience at said dealer matters and I'll add c) perception of getting a 'good deal' ie a deep msrp discount. For me b is what held me back but in the end I 100% made the right call and I'll 100% buy another Mazda...after my BRZ gets added- and that's so happening after x1 lease, drove the '17 w/performance pkg the other day through some sweet switchbacks by the BMB..just awesome oh sorry Mazda..

Mazda is a small portfolio niche brand here always has been and the Ford partnership certainly didn't help their products or image imo but let me ask you this Mango, is Mazda a better brand than they were 7 or 8 years ago? The number of sales a company makes doesn't impact my decision at all and most people are car stupid and/or simply don't care enough to bother that's not a dis to you or your CR-V which is not a bad vehicle at all I know I used to own one..People tend to go for above points a,b,c in varying order. For example...I think I know 1 person that's owned a Mazda in the past..now 3 as I convinced my brother and more recently a co-worker to give them a go. He's drives a s*** ton 40-50k/year, they're both very happy with their 6 and CX-5 respectively.
I still can't figure why a CRV man hangs out here as much you do..Mazda envy:)
 
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I always assumed that Mazda is bringing the Diesel CX-5 to the US market to "compete" with high mileage CUVs like the RAV4 Hybrid & Rogue Hybrid because that is what they could offer now with minimal investment. It also buys them a little time until the next generation of engine and drive train options are available, or whatever they have planned. The hard question for me is how committed is Mazda in maintaining a diesel option for the US market in the long term. I would hate to get attached to a diesel CX-5 only for Mazda to give up on them after a model year or two.


Yup, capitalizing on existing tech they already paid to develop for elsewhere in the world while boosting their CAFE scores and also giving a performance option to customers in N.A. Time to develop next gen motors and EV tech too.

Win, win, win.
 
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Corn Ethanol

Corn ethanol is a boondoggle. It makes neither environmental nor economical sense.
It's so stupid, the whole corn subsidy thing. (I hope nobody in this thread is from that area!)
And ethanol in our gasoline. I hate it! Cheaper? Yeah, but less efficient. I try to find gas that doesn't have ethanol in it.
Exactly! It may make some sense making ethanol with sugar cane in Brazil, but not with corn and subsidy! It's not cheaper considering subsidizing corn production from our tax money and driving up the food prices. 10% ethanol in our gasoline really doesn't make either environmental or economical sense!
 
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