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Thread: really unsure..

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazdadude View Post
    This comment if I am reading correctly, is what makes me think it could be a:
    failed rear motor mount pulling on wiring harness
    ignition switch defective,
    alternator connection,
    battery cable connections including engine ground,
    defective battery, Your bump starting it during driving could have produced enough motion on the motor in the engine bay to move the engine ground, alternator wiring, or a chaffed or shorting wire.
    Agreed completely with everything noted. But have to start with the basics, kill the car and see what the voltage does at the battery. easy to condemn battery, alternator or batt ground if voltage drops significantly when the car dies. if batt voltage remains constant then then you start looking elsewhere... loose ground, ignition switch, etc are all reasonable culprits.

  2. #17
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mazdadude View Post
    The EGR's are def a prob on these, but why would the EGR kill everything electrical?
    Oh right.. Duh...

    We need to know if his dash and everything went black or if it just stalled...


    I though he meant he wasn't using any power when it stalled
    Last edited by pcb; 05-10-2017 at 02:15 PM.

  3. #18
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    This is a link for "The Big Three"....

    It has pictures showing the grounding points for upgrading your ground wires.

    https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...ng-Kit-for-MSP

  4. #19
    long time mazda owner d0sitmatr's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcb View Post
    Oh right.. Duh...

    We need to know if his dash and everything went black or if it just stalled...


    I though he meant he wasn't using any power when it stalled
    the only sure thing I know that went down was the radio, it completely shut off, but I think the dash lights did come on like they do when you turn the key to "on", but dont crank the engine. so I guess not all electrical went down, just the most noticeable
    I think Im more inclined to believe its something at the battery, possibly the EGR. chances are I wont be able to look at it until this wknd. but I plan on trying to replicate what happened and read voltages. with luck, this will give me some idea of what is going on. if that tests all good, then Ill clean EGR

  5. #20
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by d0sitmatr View Post
    .... if that tests all good, then Ill clean EGR
    I'm recanting my thoughts on the EGR...
    After rereading the thread more carefully it makes no sense that the EGR would kill all power. (which is the part that didn't register with me at first...)

    The sucky part is that now you want to reproduce the failure to get some data during the fail.... That can be difficult and dangerous to do.

    Or,.. If you go through all your grounds and harnesses you may actually fix something and not realize it... Then it may take a couple of months to comfortably say it's fixed because the failure was such a rare event.

    Pay close attention to any wires/ground points/connectors that got hosed down during your coolant leak...

    Another thought, to help troubleshoot your ignition switch, is with the key in, wiggle it around and rotate it a bit to see if anything electrical flickers or shuts off.
    (although I find it hard to see how a bad ignition switch would be "acceleration related")
    Last edited by pcb; 05-11-2017 at 09:35 AM.

  6. #21
    long time mazda owner d0sitmatr's Avatar

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    sorry its been so long for a reply, been super busy, but then I think of replying in the middle of the day, by the time I get home I forget :/
    anyways, I havent done anything with the car because as pcb mentioned, I dont think the egr could be the cause, so Ive been doing some things trying to narrow it down. not sure if this is connected, but after reading pcb's comment it might make sense.
    I havent noticed anything untoward while the key is in the ignition such as flickering, but something that has been going on for literally a couple years comes to mind, sometimes when I try cranking the engine, it wont do anything, maybe a little click, usually I need to release then press the clutch in while the key is still turned in the start position for it to crank, but something I need to cycle the key as well as the clutch before it starts, this can happen in any condition, cold start, hot start, wet start... etc
    this first happened 3+ years ago, and eventually I had the starter replaced, since one time it just wouldnt crank at all (and of course, I was OOT at the time) thankfully it would bump start so I was able to get home. after replacing the starter, it went away for about 6-7 mos, then started happening again, and has been happening since, and is starting to become more frequent.
    is it possible the clutch safety could be the cause of all these issues ?
    my thinking is when Im really pulling, I also slam the clutch harder than I normally would.
    or maybe the loose wire at the ignition ?
    I actually can take it back to that particular mechanic as it is a shop in good standing, just slightly lacking in competence with certain mechanics....
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  7. #22
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by d0sitmatr View Post
    is it possible the clutch safety could be the cause of all these issues ?...
    I would think that's possible... But there is a code for that issue... Perhaps it isn't happening enough to throw the code.

    When then clutch is pushed the car knows to go to idle and can stall if the switch isn't working... But,... You still shouldn't have your dash go black when it stalls...

    The ECU needs to know the clutch is pushed to allow a start so if pumping your clutch makes it happen then you could have a bad switch as well as perhaps some other issue... It's a relatively cheap part,... Maybe just put a new one in.

    A bad ignition switch could also do that... AND,.. It could make the dash go black with a really bad connection... But... Letting the clutch out shouldn't really allow the car to start up again with all electrics working again ??

    Either the clutch or brake pedal (or both,.. I forget) has two switches or combined switches... There is a separate switch for the cruise control module.

  8. #23
    long time mazda owner d0sitmatr's Avatar

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    there isnt a check engine light on, nor does one come up at the time of this happening. but I can run a scan for any latent codes so Ill do that today, and if there is something Ill post it up. the sad thing is there is not an actual Mazda specialist within 100 miles of where I live. plenty of mechanics, most of who, honestly, Im not sure how they got a cert, and as well, many who are just plain dishonest.

    just keeping my fingers crossed I can come across another who actually knows his stuff and is honest... I know, might as well ask for world peace
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  9. #24
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    This is the specific code I was thinking of but there is a bunch of conditions that have to be met for it to register.

    Your switch may not be failing enough to register.




    But,... With that being said, there is no code for a failing ignition switch,... And as far as I figure, All of your problems could be caused by a bad ignition switch.... A rare bad connection inside the switch that is equivalent to turning the car off and removing the key.

    I don't want to see you throw money at your car but the whole pumping the clutch to get the car to start can suggest both switches... And it sounds like you can replace them yourself.

    They aren't too expensive and could fix your problem.







    For a mechanic to fix the problem he would need to see it fail for him and that sounds really hard to do.

    Don't forget your grounds though ... They shouldn't be too hard to check... Disconnect them, clean them and put them back on.

  10. #25
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by d0sitmatr View Post
    ...plenty of mechanics, most of who, honestly, Im not sure how they got a cert, and as well, many who are just plain dishonest.
    The more car knowledge you show any mechanic, the less inclined they will be to rip you off.
    If they know that you know your stuff, they will hesitate.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcb View Post
    The more car knowledge you show any mechanic, the less inclined they will be to rip you off.
    If they know that you know your stuff, they will hesitate.
    Agreed completely. Trick is to find one that you can trust that does good work, and is reputable.

    Certs mean nothing. i have known "master techs" that i wouldn't let touch my bicycle. Most dealerships and shops push ASE certification hard because it allows them to put the big blue badge in the window. To the general consumer this means something because it's recognizable. However, much like anything else... College degrees, ASE Certifications, Doctor degree, hair cuttery graduate of honors... all they mean is someone can pass a test. being able to pass a test and actually APPLY knowledge or principals learned are 2 completely different things. And personally, i wouldn't hesitate to take my business to someone with a good reputation that's not stepped foot inside a classroom since 7th grade and has been working on cars for 40 years out of an old garage working out of a rusty old craftsman toolbox over a kid with a master's degree, every ASE certification possible, and $40k in tools in a big shiny snap-on tool box.

    not saying every old codger in a greasy old shop is reputable and does good work, but just an example I've worked with kids that have the biggest shiniest toolbox and all the best name brand tools that break more cars than they fix. half those tools they have never even used.

  12. #27
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by pb4ugotobed View Post
    ... i have known "master techs" that i wouldn't let touch my bicycle...
    My old neighbor decided to make a few bucks fixing a flat tire on another neighbors bicycle...
    I guess he ran into a few problems because the next day, the entire bike was in the garbage... It was a new bike..
    I'm sure it was a defect in materials or workmanship,...

    Too funny...

    On a more related note,...
    My uncle told me a story about his neighbor who had an antique Ford that he completely rebuilt.

    He went for a drive in the spring and after about an hour it just died on the side of the road..
    He had it towed to a local Ford dealer where the technicians tried everything... They poked and prodded, hooked up their fancy computers but couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong.

    They ended up calling in the "master mechanic" dude from Ford's head office... After about five minutes he noticed that they forgot to connect the ground strap from the engine to the chassis when they reinstalled the engine..
    The engine was sort of grounded through metal to metal contact but didn't stay connected.

    Check all your grounding points for good contact...

  13. #28
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mazdadude View Post
    This comment if I am reading correctly, is what makes me think it could be a:
    failed rear motor mount pulling on wiring harness
    ignition switch defective,
    alternator connection,
    battery cable connections including engine ground,
    defective battery, Your bump starting it during driving could have produced enough motion on the motor in the engine bay to move the engine ground, alternator wiring, or a chaffed or shorting wire.
    Hard acceleration can push an pull on your ignition switch causing an intermittent failure... Especially if you have a lot of keys and stuff hanging off your ignition key.

  14. #29
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    protege5

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcb View Post

    He had it towed to a local Ford dealer where the technicians tried everything... They poked and prodded, hooked up their fancy computers but couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong.

    They ended up calling in the "master mechanic" dude from Ford's head office... After about five minutes he noticed that they forgot to connect the ground strap from the engine to the chassis when they reinstalled the engine..
    The engine was sort of grounded through metal to metal contact but didn't stay connected.
    lol thats the problem with "techs" today. if they can't plug in a computer, get a code that tells them what's wrong they scratch their head because they're clueless. dealers really just don't train on basic principals anymore of how things work. i'd bet if you walk into any dealership and ask the techs a basic question like how an internal combustion engine works, or what is the difference between a 2 stroke and 4 stroke motor 90% of them would have absolutely no idea.

    funny about the ground strap though. the toyota/lexus cars, v6 in particular, have a ground wire that connects to the back of the passenger side valve cover. i've lost count of how many of these cars i've seen with all sorts of codes and techs scratching their heads because someone just replaced the valve cover gaskets and didn't hook that ground back up. and in the old 4runners/pickup trucks with the 3.0 (early 90's) this grounded all of the injectors. wild problems when they left that one loose.

  15. #30
    long time mazda owner d0sitmatr's Avatar

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    well, nothing showed up with a scan, but I was using a scangauge to check codes and I know from experience that some wont come up, but those are the same codes that wont show up on a generic scanner like they use at auto parts stores, so it looks like Ill have to go by a shop to get a full code scan :/

    someone mentioned a rev limiter, I said I dont think my car has one, but I dont actually know if it does and I havent been able to find anything either way, so I guess another question would be, does this car have one and if so, could it be failing if so ?

    I am truly thankful for the suggestions, and Im trying to weed things out as I can, so bear with me while I try my hardest to narrow things down as I really dont have a ton of money to throw into the car at this time
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