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Thread: Engine Harness and Starter Issues

  1. #31
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    If your TR switch is aligned and you still can't get the starter engaged, you can run a replacement wire from the H terminal of the connector that plugs into the TR switch right to the connector on the starter.

    Edit... It might be the B terminal... It depends which terminal goes B+ when in start position.
    Last edited by pcb; 05-05-2017 at 01:37 AM.

  2. #32
    Registered Member naguilar's Avatar

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    Would that bypass the TR sensor? Wiring diagrams are fairly new to me. But I do have a family member who knows electronics fairly well.


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  3. #33
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    No,... I'm thinking you've got a broken wire/bad connection going to the starter.... The wire would just replace it if you can't find the bad area of the original wire.

    The other wires from the TR switch go to the ECU and don't go near the burned area of your car... And your car was working fine before it blowed up so it's hard to see the TR switch going out of alignment just sitting there.

    You probably still want to check your TR switch, the ECU still needs to know what gear it's in.

    OR.... You could just wire in a switch or button through the fuse box and just hit that to start the car... Not the best approach and you'd have to be careful not to hit the button when your going down the road... But it would work...

  4. #34
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Maybe try holding the key to start position and going through all the gears to see if the TR switch ever lines up and sends power to the starter.
    Be careful of course... It could startup in gear again.

    The power (B+) goes from the key in start position into the TR switch on either the H or B terminal then out the other,then to your starter.

  5. #35
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    OK... So I've been thinking of a way to systematically diagnose your wiring...

    With the help of your mechanic or family member,... With everything connected, including the battery and your wheels in the air on jack stands.,... check for +12 V at both the H and B terminals of your TR switch while your key is held at start position.

    You can probe the back of the connector while it is plugged in. (remember, the terminal order will be mirror image from the back of the connector, check your color codes on the wires coming from it)

    Be careful of course, the starter may just decide to kick in...

    If you are getting +12 V at both terminals, it proves that power is getting to the TR switch.... And it would also be getting to the PCM (ECU) and cruise control because it feeds both of them on it's way to the TR switch.
    (according to the wiring diagrams)

    You probably are getting +12 V through because your ECU (PCM) was happy enough to allow your car to start and run.

    Then, unplug the TR switch and check both the H and B terminals of the connector to see which one is +12 V with the key held at the start position... That is the power feed into the switch.

    Then cut the other wire (the switch output) about two inches back and splice in a new piece of wire and run it straight to the starter.

    EDIT... I forgot about this...




  6. #36
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    So...

    This is the start fuse and the circuit that I am confused about...




    So I went to my car and did this...






    There is no power going to that fuse until you turn the key to Start position.

    And the power comes in on the top right corner terminal, goes through the fuse then down through the terminal below it then off to the PCM where it has something to do with the brake circuit ??? I dunno ???

    The weird thing is, my car started with this fuse pulled out ??

    SO... Go and test for +12 V at that fuse... You don't have to pull it out, there are little metal test points on the top of the fuses.


  7. #37
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    If you are getting +12 V (when your key is turned to start position) at that fuse then you can use it feed to your signal input for your starter.

    If you are not getting +12 V at that fuse (key at start) then your wiring harness is not delivering power to it.

    That's when you go back to the TR switch, splice in a wire (from terminal H or B,.. whichever is the output) and feed it into the fuse box at the start fuse (#12).

    This way, your starter safety stays intact (only starts in P or N) and power is fed to the brake circuit inside the cluster to do whatever the hell it's doing ??

  8. #38
    Registered Member naguilar's Avatar

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    We tested that fuse and no power was being delivered. The mechanic ended up using that fuse to bypass the signal.


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  9. #39
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    OK... So if it were me, I'd check for power at the TR switch on terminals H and B (which I'm assuming you have because your car starts and runs). And string a wire from the output terminal (H or B) then to the starter as well as the fusebox. Run the wire through a ten amp fuse then into the lower terminal of the fuse holder.

    You could bend the wire around the blade of the fuse (the top blade) and plug it in... But that can expand the connector in the fuse box though and could make a bad connection.

    I took apart a fuse (removed the plastic) and used one of the blades as a connector.... You could do the same and solder the wire to a blade to plug into the fusebox.... It would make a better connection that isn't quite so cheesy.

    Like this...



    Another option is to remove the fuse box and splice into the wire underneath that feeds the fuse.

    And the best option is to trace the wire all the way from the TR switch or even from the ignition switch if power isn't getting to the TR switch itself,.. And find where the break is and fix it , but that can be a pain because the wire goes through a bunch of different harnesses and connectors and the wire changes colors along it's journey.

    You'd probably still have do some splicing anyway my way just does the entire length.

  10. #40
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    You will most likely need to supply +12 V to the bottom terminal of the fuse holder (the one below where my probe is) but only when the starter is engaged... Even though my car started without the fuse.



    I figure the microprocessor in the instrument cluster does some sort of test while most circuit are shut down during start.. Like testing the brake light to make sure they're working ??

    If it doesn't get that +12 V during start it might get pissed off and retaliate in some unforeseen way.

  11. #41
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    So... Start with the TR switch and test it for power.

    With the key held in start position and the transmission set at D either H or B will be +12 V ... That one is your input.
    Then put it in P or N and the other one should get +12 V.



    Remember, you don't have to disconnect anything... Just probe the back of the TR switch connector.

    The wire that goes to +12 V only in Park or Neutral is the wire you want to splice. (either H or B... With the key held to start)

  12. #42
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    The same sort of thing happened to my friends car.
    His brake lights went out and there was no power to the fuse. The circuit was supposed to be live all the time.

    I wired right from the battery, through a fuse, then to the fusebox where I soldered the wire to a fuse blade and plugged it in where the fuse was to activate the circuit.

    He was told a mechanic would have charged him $600-$700 for the job. They probably would have replaced a harness or tried to trace the wire.... I just bypassed everything.

  13. #43
    Registered Member naguilar's Avatar

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    Engine Harness and Starter Issues

    @pcb haven't forgot about the thread. Got the car back in the house today and decided to take an inspection at the ignition switch. Is the contact supposed to be clear? Found a YouTube video where a guy had starting problems and his switch looks "sooty."

    Here is a picture of what I am talking about. What do you think?

    o


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  14. #44
    Registered Member naguilar's Avatar

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    Here is the link to the video.

    https://youtu.be/ecB5PaUfSU8


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  15. #45
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    I don't know if it's supposed to be clear.. It could have just gotten dirty over time.
    I would assume the dirty area would be sealed from the actual switches. There's a whole bunch of little switches/contacts inside and any one of them could wear out/get dirty over time.

    I remember Mr. Giggles had a bad ignition switch... I think if he wiggled his key, the lights would flicker ???

    That video was almost exactly the same problem as yours, except his issue was intermittent and yours won't work at all.

    It looks really difficult to test the switch when it's installed but you maybe able to test continuity with it removed.

    It's not toooo much money for a new one and it may very well fix your problem.

    RockAuto's price... (30% cheaper in US funds)



    I still wonder about why your car started fine before the engine blew and now it won't start at all.... Makes me suspect wiring near the explosion area.

    Remember the power goes through the ignition switch then to the TR switch then to the start fuse and starter.

    You could still test for power at the TR switch to see if it's getting through the ignition switch... Although I don't knowhow easily accessible the connector is..

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