2017 non-Bose audio specs?

S

skinto

Member
:
CX5
Does anyone have the service manual/audio specs or the frequency response curve for the 2017 Touring non-Bose?

Just bought my car and love most everything about it, but I'm really having a problem with the stereo (sounds muddier than my 15-yo stock Toyota). My audio engineer friend did a rough frequency sweep and got range ~80 - 13k, but noted a deep drop out at 130-180 Hz.

I can't imagine this is to be expected even with stock, so there may be a crossover issue which I'm hoping the dealer could address. Any other thoughts?
 
130-180 is bass. Voice is 1,000 to 2,000ish.

Give the speaker cone surrounds some time to break in.
 
is everything set to "0" or the middle on all of your adjustments? Did your audio engineer friend do sweeps with all speakers, front only, and rear only to compare and see where the biggest deficiencies exist? I guess 80 - 13k isn't horrible, but it would be nice to see where (front or back) the biggest holes are and then what could be done to fix them.

As I mentioned in another thread, how hard is it for the manufacturer to design and produce a good sounding stock system without the need to push an up-rated system like the Bose that is offered.
 
I've heard few complaints on 2017 CX-5 non-Bose audio. And I don't think it's a "crossover issue" which the dealer could resolve. You can get some sound quality improvement by replacing cheap paper-cone "full-range" factory speakers with good-quality aftermarket coaxial speakers, but that is about what all you can do as now the use of separate tablet screen which makes using an aftermarket double-DIN head unit impossible.

But is 2017 Bose system really much better? I have compared my tweeter-less 2016 Bose with 2017 Bose and found other than the high notes helped by newly added A-pillar tweeters, the 2017 Bose sound quality actually is getting worse in a way that all instruments and vocal seem muddy and mixed all together, it has no clarity like my 2016's.

Here are a couple of old posts showing the frequency response curve on both 1st-gen non-Bose and Bose. They're far from ideal 20~20,000 Hz frequency response flat curve, but to our surprise the non-Bose audio system in 1st-gen performed better than Bose system!


Non-Bose frequency response

sillyxone said:
As ColtX-5 posted the response curve for Bose, I thought I should do the same for non-Bose for completeness.

The setup:
  • closed garage, closed CX-5 doors and windows, engine not running
  • 6-speaker system in 2016 Touring
  • two AKG P170 mics to the front-left seat (right channel) and back-right seat (left channel)
  • mics hooked to Tascam DR-40 recording a linear frequency-sweep generated in Audacity (computer to AUX)
  • input level of DR-40 was low enough to minimize background noise
  • frequency response data extracted out of the recorded WAV files using Plot Spectrum in Audacity
  • data syntax: "b0_t3_f20-15k" means bass=0, treble=+3, frequency=20Hz-15KHz
  • the frequency if omitted is 20Hz-20KHz (the shorter ranges just to show that the mics/speakers do work between 15K-20K)

All audios, pics, and charts can be downloaded from this GDrive folder:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1wdJ3PpKsLGV1VrTF9TMkloN3M

To keep the post short, I'm inserting just a few pics below. This is by no mean scientific, just a rough idea of the quality of the sound system. You can get more details by downloading the WAV files in the GDrive folder and analyze them yourself (for the audio, left channel maps to back-right seat, right channel maps to front-left seat).

Eq9pHKhjI17aYAFhOO1WyKvwemC7Nvmgt8UlYBiegaJQqG-Ruyb3neImvRNuvuKK147sYZ1B8uGCvOTOkSTvD1vuDaDzeEwYDle04u3PFped28ptuBBh_EImZxqZWwUVuPzL0Iy7mV_qFnW8LJj2y9etz8ir-4hWxf9Zx7nLSwz8gZww5yqEbVPEet-YQIEdwMpfVa1cdXHhyGLZq923PNJ-MaX3PRGl-8FZm69-zuqGak8uI0lIz-CjdbcDyrdwsDEvMSQOLlsZYIcsxcg-Qx47WBMQ7rwP6vaeAJyoMx3OAl7hQlr23vcNAvFOIKRjGl2OuJeET4-HRBZySmKUACs3sU1nmUWxHDp8_9MGDtf_DFSSojZRQwvQkg3-aSRd0yk-FUp4IHY6TyiFqanw-n3H_XaB90B3oFMXBEAWIMecqo01XqEo3dquevM52FgiEiEhd4910D5aPStv7U3IJ9t2gYRsuWMuA-Qs0twJmvrpB_SpG4gXXgVYsl-RxJ4HmeCzxCf4BqxFsuEg5B-h27-mwcb3gTstz9eH90TQbKHkDKbTUtrz1XDzoHVP3kfNB8TH=w900


65qYRQBXhVx_n6FIYLWm-dIMeU89pnaSAYNZ2EZOo2mwD1sPG3Dg6-00mKbfTLeJotpcAcUAVyRiOWujKzCmx0BmAJxbfbtJp-2s37v3p-X2WUf3jtCSGOSQWt0oy28qyQay7rku0TD4HDkp7AQC-jJWuV6rtHaxGRf2Fm5LV2PNaOZ7An5IuFsEfLalJdzgO1BYgQWKrOjPhnRK494pJNhEEicgJRYnrOEYs5C0NJl1i1ka0UtmyJHvenopBDvEOOXKEeFLmQqvhhN9-qmJxDyOTRWufRgaOD44uV2d2b1CLuLjt4VEGtw0aeE458UJjLQzRIH6gD5XRupV1Hyysv8tRj66KGW4Q2yr8RkvlvTqwBQDZht-c4Xo3yw8xCnOZAnM8WwE6-NPpa7nuw-Ooxk5BYtiDOYmFMt4pgZeB_kOoA3fzn9mQZ5nezgDqeiq0ePsLaTdVlhC7qdkEf2efTEV_vz-qok9zBZCgjaTRXHPmwlk9U5Hyv-7bOR0MT73BxlGyM-qsp2Fvekwmx___JPo3CEuZk2wpp2cxOoqhRJvD4GCmKWhDbVqXwGIajGXTbKD=w1144-h643-no


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ColtX-5 said:
It means the non-Blose system is nearly optimal for audio in a car environment and I got screwed with the Blose system.

I think the system would be pretty close to flat +/- 5 dB from about 40 to 17k Hz, if you cut the bass control about 5 dB (-5 clicks?). Flat means voices and instruments sound real and do not sound artificial by over boosted bass or treble.

Most music is between 80 and 1000 Hz. The low E on a bass guitar is 41 Hz, Heavy Metal. Lead guitar solos are 1k to 3k Hz. The very, very delicate shimmer from cymbals (aka "air") is 12k to 19k. Young women and pre-teen males can hear from 20 to 20k Hz, normally.
Click to expand...


Why does it say BLOSE and Suck So Much, Here's Why!

ColtX-5 said:
I finally got around to curving my 2015 Blose audio system. I used an HP 204C signal generator into the AUX in port. The curve is of the right channel with the volume set to 25, max bass CUT, treble at +4 tics and fader 4 tics to the rear. The meter was a Rat Shack Analog meter, aimed at the right most A/C vent and the readings were corrected using the published correction curve for the analog meter. The engine was off and all the windows and doors were all shut. The left channel did not change the response curve much, other than adding ~10 dB.

I have fooled with this thing from the day I got it trying to get a nearly flat curve and this is the best I can do, with just fader, bass and treble. More treble raises the 3k screech without improving the response above 7k. It appears the tone controls are shelving types and there is no way to kill the 14 dB (Dayum!!!!!) hump at 40 Hz. Remember, 10 dB is twice/half as loud, 14 dB is getting close to 3x different. Realistically, +/- 5 dB is good, especially in a car, and you might listen through the +/- 8dB swings in the midrange, but this system is supposedly custom designed for this vehicle and EQ'd just for it. Blose(/Mazda?) utterly FAILED. There is little point in trying for response above 15k in a car because of wind noise and most people can't hear that high (I can't).

I'd say there is no solution other than to replace the Blose Amp, front door woofers and dash tweeters.

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Bose is never about linear response to begin with so we don't have to expect any smooth response from Bose let alone in a bad room (cabin) to begin with. Most quality systems struggle to get a good linear response from automobiles using time delay, graphic and parametric equalization. So expecting a smooth response from a stock system be it Bose or any brand in particular is futile.

Sent from my ASUS_Z012D using Tapatalk
 
The dips were across all the speakers, so it may not be the limitation of the speakers. I took the car to a professional audio place, and their RTA did confirm a dip in the aforementioned range. I'm getting an amp, replacing the front components, and having a sub installed, hopefully by playing with the crossovers they can get some improvement...
 
skinto said:
The dips were across all the speakers, so it may not be the limitation of the speakers. I took the car to a professional audio place, and their RTA did confirm a dip in the aforementioned range. I'm getting an amp, replacing the front components, and having a sub installed, hopefully by playing with the crossovers they can get some improvement...
Click to expand...



As expected from Bose. Hehe! Yeah you can maximize it's potential of course. Depends too on how acceptable or what is your definition of dips or peaks. If (-) (+) 10db for your is dip or peak in an automotive environment, then by all means tune it.

Coming from both automotive, home and studio audio, I guess I'm more forgiving because I have accepted the limitations of car audio due to the car interior acoustics. Hehe!

But before you go into tuning your system, maybe you can consider other improvements like you've mentioned. Deflex pads etc. For me, tuning would be my last resort.

Sent from my ASUS_Z012D using Tapatalk
 
Just got it back from the audio shop - new front components, amp, and subwoofer, and that blatant mid bass gap is thankfully gone. Some mild improvement with Dynamatted doors too, but not a world of difference. Still feels like I'm in a concert hall when I'm stuck in traffic though. :)
(BTW this is the non-Bose system)
 
skinto said:
Just got it back from the audio shop - new front components, amp, and subwoofer, and that blatant mid bass gap is thankfully gone. Some mild improvement with Dynamatted doors too, but not a world of difference. Still feels like I'm in a concert hall when I'm stuck in traffic though. :)
(BTW this is the non-Bose system)
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Congrats! Good move on replacing the drivers. The "mid bass" gap is what others call "muddy" frequencies which for some people, find it pleasing when removed. Unfortunately for your ears [emoji12] , you require a more full bandwidth reproduction hence the upgrade. However those so called "muddy" frequencies also contains important details which you feel is lacking.

Did you also use the PAC thingy? If no, how did you bypassed the built in amplification?

Sent from my ASUS_Z012D using Tapatalk
 
skinto said:
The dips were across all the speakers, so it may not be the limitation of the speakers. I took the car to a professional audio place, and their RTA did confirm a dip in the aforementioned range. I'm getting an amp, replacing the front components, and having a sub installed, hopefully by playing with the crossovers they can get some improvement...
Click to expand...

I did the same thing last year pretty much and ended up trying 3 speakers to fix can't do it. You have to put a AC unit in so you can adjust the mid in and turn the brite high down. Wish I knew that in the start.

Running Hertz energy series and a fozgate 10" sub.
 
Last edited:
The Bose is definitely bass heavy. I finally cranked it a bit on the way home from the dealer. (I was polite in test drives) Since I hadn't setup anything yet, I put it on a hip hop station and was pretty surprised at how big the bass was and how it appeared to be eating up the headroom available for other frequencies.

Not sure that EQing the muddy frequencies would work because, as mentioned, there is a lot of information in those frequencies. (250 - 500Hz or so) Bass guitar, guitar, vocals, snare. Taking a bit off the overall bass though may help a bit.
 
I stand corrected. This morning I went into settings to turn the bass down on my brand new car. Someone had jacked the bass up to +6. No wonder...

Listening to music I've created though, I think it's still a bit heavy in the bass. I'm debating between -1 and -2.
 
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