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Thread: How to reset the i-stop system (eg after battery replacement)

  1. #16
    Registered Member Moonlighter's Avatar

    CX5 Akera 2.2 Diesel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver 1 View Post
    that's what i've read in articles and discussion on the net.

    Do try a ordinary maintenance free battery on your mazda with istop and tell us how it holds up
    Since you read it on the net, it must be true. Naturally.

    I am on my second CX5 diesel, both with iStop feature.

    They both came fitted with Mazda’s OEM Panasonic flooded cell lead acid (EFB) battery, not even a maintenance free models, so (surprise surprise!) you need to regularly monitor and top up the electrolyte level.

    Funnily enough, Mazda specifies such a EFB battery due to its enhanced design that is designed for repeated starts inherent in stop/start systems. Its not a standard flooded cell battery, nor is it an AGM.

    First was a 2013 GT that I had for 3 years and over 90,000kms. Battery never missed a beat in that time. But I did take care of it by topping up the battery every few months.

    Current CX5 Akera is the top of the line model with every electronic option and system available, so max possible demands on the battery. Not doing as many km on this one since I retired but its now 18months old and 25000kms. Same battery model as first car. Again I keep the battery topped up as it should be.

    So yes, I can tell you that a EFB flooded cell lead acid battery, as fitted by Mazda, even one requiring owner maintenance, does a sterling job and Mazda’s clever IStop system hasnt killed the battery.

    You might want to have a read about what some leading battery people say about replacing batteries in stop/start cars:
    https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technic...ement-warning/

    I am doing some further research about replacing the Mazda EFB battery with AGM, because I am seeing lots of battery companies saying only to replace like-with-like. Eg that you should replace EFB only with EFB.

    I have asked my auto association for their technical advice in this regard and will post back with their response. Their default advice on their website is to replace EFB only with EFB.
    Last edited by Moonlighter; 01-06-2018 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlighter View Post
    Since you read it on the net, it must be true. Naturally.
    Hahaha you must be itching to respond with this, don't you? your reference link is also from the net, your statement above is now on the net too! you must be this special kind of human that they talk about.

    panasonic n-q85 on their website states its a maintenance free =) here's the reason i went with optima, optima cost around $340 with shipping (it's the only agm i could easily procure). the mazda dealers' replacement deep cycle efb battery cost around $300 plus installation charge and it's not the panasonic q85 rather it's made by local brand here which i had bad experiences even on their top tier maintenance free advertised as tropicalized battery.

    Good for you that your battery last longer than usual and if you shared this knowledge of topping it up with distilled water then i might have thanked you.

    I never asked you about this, you did and you answered it yourself, good job mate!

  3. #18
    Registered Member Moonlighter's Avatar

    CX5 Akera 2.2 Diesel

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    So youre saying you never topped up your original Panasonic?

    The little screw caps on the top of the battery are somewhat of a giveaway to most people.

    Expensive lesson there.

    Sounds very much like the battery killer isnt Mazda iStop, its the operator
    Last edited by Moonlighter; 01-07-2018 at 02:35 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlighter View Post
    So youre saying you never topped up your original Panasonic?

    The little screw caps on the top of the battery are somewhat of a giveaway to most people.

    Expensive lesson there.

    Sounds very much like the battery killer isnt Mazda iStop, its the operator
    Never 'cause what part of maintenance free battery you don't understand? and yes i did checked it once it got bad and levels where fine.

    Wohooo so moonlighter have conclude its the operators fault specifically me, Driver 1 yey! brilliant conclusion moonlighter even though he doesn't know the weather conditions in the Philippines and traffic situation.

    Hey you're retired right so you have time and i hope you have money even though you could only afford mazdas, why don't you visit the Philippines rent a mazda with you're precious non battery killer istop feature and drive around the metro and tell us how many times does the istop activates per day. 'cause as you imply the mazda istop does not and never cause strain to the battery 'cause its sooo cleveeer. its the water level and drivers fault, bad water level bad driver!

    I never understood why you got mental when i stated istop is a killer hahaha but i loved it never had this fun in years on a keyboard.

  5. #20
    手前の言葉が俺は聞き捨てよう TheMAN's Avatar


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    it's not always a simple matter of electrolyte level in the battery that can cause premature failure, although it isn't a maintenance free battery nor Mazda USA explicitly says is a maintenance battery in the shop manual, but is implied so based on the many pages dedicated to the "w/i-eloop" battery pages in the USDM 3's and 6's shop manuals ... based on the Japanese article I've read on Kowa Seiki's website (full of sales pitches, because they're selling the product), they've seen high failure rates of the idling start-stop (aka EFB) batteries at dealers all over Japan, not just Mazda, although Kowa Seiki is officially Mazda's tool supplier. The article claims that in collaboration with CTEK from Sweden, they determined that the battery failures are caused by acid stratification and they have released a special CTEK charger that can remove this acid stratification. They claim that after some dealers started using this $1200 CTEK charger, their warranty claims on the Panasonic or Yuasa batteries have dropped greatly and they've seen the battery life go from just a little past a year to 3 years average. Acid stratification causes specific gravity issues, and thus, false state of charge is detected by the i-eloop/i-stop system's current detectors. This false state of charge detection, can cause under or over charging issues with the battery, leading to cell damage. The acid stratification is exacerbated because the constant deep cycling caused by heavy battery usage from idle start-stop use. And when the battery is undercharged, cell plate sulfation results, which causes the battery's capacity to be reduced, and eventually cause failure. Half of this stuff isn't mentioned in the shop manual, which is pretty interesting.

    That $1200 JDM only CTEK charger has claimed advanced "ISS battery refresh" function that's not in the cheaper JDM models.... whatever, I can't afford a $1200 battery charger (if I ever come across a used one for a good price, I'll buy it for sure).
    What I could afford was Yuasa's own charger that has its own "ISS battery refresh" function, for a fraction of the price from Japan. It seems to behave the same way that Kowa Seiki claims their own private labeled CTEK charger does... recharge the battery at low pulsating current, to desulfate and recharge, then do a high voltage (17-18 volt), high current charge to "stir" the electrolyte. "Stir" it does... after a few hours of running the charger with the battery caps off (you must do that, in accordance with Mazda's shop manual or run great safety risk), the electrolyte is "boiling" until the cycle ends after about 8 hours on my very healthy Q-85 battery. This was one of the few affordable chargers in Japan that is fully compatible with a EFB at the time I got this early last year. Nothing in the US DIY/consumer market was fully EFB compatible until CTEK USA released their MXS 5.0 charger mid last year. There's plenty of choices from Europe as they've been ahead of us in putting out cars with start-stop features, but importing a charger from Europe meant having to get a step up transformer to run the charger, which is a pain in the ass and additional fire hazard, despite the fact that I have plenty of step up transformers.

    These batteries are funny beasts... standard smart chargers and testers falsely detect the state of charge because they seem to have a very different surface charge behavior than regular batteries, so you can't fully use any regular charger with these batteries. You could use a fully manual charger, and time the charge, after using a hydrometer to check the specific gravity to calculate a state of charge (all stated how to do so in the shop manual), but that's a huge messy pain in the ass. I instead, chose to buy a battery tester that can handle EFB, which will properly give me an accurate state of charge and state of health readout digitally, and of course also the special smart charger, because this is easier and faster to do a quick do over. In any case, you must use these batteries with start-stop systems or with Mazda's i-eloop system because it has deep cycle characteristics from the denser cells, but it also can accept high current charges more easily without cell damage like a standard battery does... hence why standard batteries can't last long in cars with these systems

    Anyhow, for many of you, get a European/220 volt CTEK charger that can handle EFB, with the "recondition" mode... no point getting the charger without it. For the few of us in the US or Canada that have a 3 or 6 with i-eloop, get the CTEK MXS 5.0 or import the Yuasa charger from Japan like I did, which is designed for 100 volts but works fine on 120 volts... the Yuasa doesn't really have a float charging function from what I've seen, but it does have a similar "refresh" function as the expensive $1200 JDM CTEK... but the non-JDM CTEK only has a "recondition" mode, rather than the "refresh" mode... it is still probably a better buy as it's easier and cheaper to get anyway, which makes it a more practical long term use as you can use it as a float charger on any car, including ones with start-stop systems, when you are parking the car for an extended period of time (winter hibernation or vacation, for example)...

    what's the difference between the "refresh" and "recondition" modes? "refresh" does a slow ramp up to high voltage, high current charge after fully recharging the battery to force out gassing of the battery which forces the electrolyte to aggressively "stir", eliminating acid stratification completely.... this is a one step process on the Yuasa charger, but on the $1200 JDM CTEK, you must do a standard recharge or "recondition" first, before switching to "refresh" mode... "recondition" mode on the CTEK does a desulfate, then recharge, before slowly ramping to a slightly higher voltage (15.8 volts) low current charge to force out gassing of the battery to "stir" the electrolyte to remove acid stratification... on a standard battery, the "recondition" mode works fine, but on an EFB, it will either remove stratification incompletely or will take a longer time to do so, hence why the higher voltage and higher current profiles are used on the $1200 JDM CTEK and the affordable Yuasa chargers... both of these chargers will completely remove stratification on an EFB and fairly quickly... so if you want to have an EFB compatible float charger, and also have a true "refresh" mode, without breaking the bank, buying both chargers is the only way at this time, unfortunately

    I run the refresh function once a year. But if your battery sees heavy use, twice a year is probably better... be sure to top off the level first with distilled water before running the charger, or you'll damage the battery!

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  6. #21
    Registered Member Moonlighter's Avatar

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    Mazda here in Aus typically replaces any CX5 factory fitted Panasonic batteries that fail within 2 years under warranty. And some extend that a few months beyond 2 years. Replacements also come with a 2 year Panasonic warranty.

  7. #22
    手前の言葉が俺は聞き捨てよう TheMAN's Avatar


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    they do that here also, but charges prorated price on the very expensive battery (it's more than $400) on the i-eloop equipped cars (some of the 3 and 6)... on all other cars, they just use a regular battery, so they replace it with cheap crap one provided by Interstate

    so it makes better sense for us, the owners to perform proper maintenance on them to extend the life as much as possible.. at the moment, I think I am the only one in the US that knows/does this
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  8. #23
    Registered Member Moonlighter's Avatar

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    Agreed. Take proper care of it and you maximise service life of the battery.

    Mazda here dont pro-rata, they simply warranty replace at no charge. And yes, the Panasonics are damn expensive at the dealer, over $550 here.

    Do you know any reason why replacing them with a stop/start rated AGM that meets other specs would not be OK? Seems to me that the charging profiles of the EFB and AGM are very similar. Can get good EU made stop/start AGM’s here for half the price of those Panasonic EFB’s.

  9. #24
    手前の言葉が俺は聞き捨てよう TheMAN's Avatar


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    Probably a bad idea.... AGM batteries don't take kindly to high voltage charging... they're pretty picky about how they get charged... although they take to physical and environmental abuse well, they don't seem to handle cycling or deep discharges well as far as a regular AGM battery goes... there's probably some adaptations to the start/stop type to overcome some of this stuff, but in any case, due to the fact that it needs to be charged differently, I wouldn't try unless they're affordable

    stick to EFBs, and I bet it doesn't have to be Panasonic's, if you can get other brands, although I say Panasonic's and Yuasa's quality are among the best
    btw, the battery that came with my 3 is a Yuasa, not Panasonic
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamic Locks View Post
    Just curious as I'm just about to replace my battery.......If I DON'T do the above reset will that mean the annoying istop will be permantly switched off? 😉🤔
    Agreed....... about to take the car in for itís first 1,000 klm free service and will be asking the service department if they can deactivate it.

  11. #26
    Registered Member Moonlighter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Kogarah Boy View Post
    Agreed....... about to take the car in for it’s first 1,000 klm free service and will be asking the service department if they can deactivate it.
    Cant be deactivated.

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