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Thread: Diesel vs gas torque/mph graph

  1. #1
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    cx-5 GT Tech

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    Diesel vs gas torque/mph graph

    I have updated my CX-5 torque vs mph graph, with numbers for the diesel engine. I assume that gearing stays the same as the gas engine.

    Diesel is the light gray lines. Note that if you keep the gas engine above 4200 rpm, you will get *faster* acceleration than the diesel, except below 20 mph. (Hmmm, does the diesel weigh more?)

    Diesel torque from the graph presented here: http://www.versatune.net/forum/viewt...hp?f=21&t=1045

    Torque is the Y axis, MPH is the X axis. These numbers do not account for driveline loss, except as shown in the dyno charts used to generate them.


  2. #2
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    A little more explanation...

    The diesel torque peaks at 2600 rpm.
    The gas torque peaks from 3200 to 4200.
    The diesel's 1st gear torque intersects the gas 1st gear torque at 21 MPH.

  3. #3
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    Data from Mazda Australia website - at least here, the individual ratios and final drive ratios are different. Likely that they are a,so different in other markets.

    Petrol 2.5L 2016
    Auto gearbox ratios, final drive ratio, power and torque, vehicle weight

    Gear ratio (1st) 3.552
    Gear ratio (2nd) 2.022
    Gear ratio (3rd) 1.452
    Gear ratio (4th) 1.000
    Gear ratio (5th) 0.708
    Gear ratio (6th) 0.599
    Gear ratio (final drive) 4.325
    Gear ratio (reverse) 3.893
    Kerb weight 1,630kg
    Maximum power 138kW @ 5,700rpm
    Maximum torque 250Nm @ 4,000rpm

    Diesel 2.2L 2016 model
    Auto gearbox ratios, final drive ratio, power and torque, vehicle weight

    Gear ratio (1st) 3.487
    Gear ratio (2nd) 1.992
    Gear ratio (3rd) 1.449
    Gear ratio (4th) 1.000
    Gear ratio (5th) 0.707
    Gear ratio (6th) 0.600
    Gear ratio (final drive) 4.090
    Gear ratio (reverse) 3.990
    Kerb weight 1,705kg
    Maximum power 129kW @ 4,500rpm
    Maximum torque 420Nm @ 2,000rpm

    The only performance figures I could find (not Mazda official claims, but as tested by journalists) with a very quick search just now says:

    0-100km/hr (60mph approx)
    2.5L petrol = 8.5 or 8.7 sec
    2.2 diesel = 8.0 sec

    Real time performnace and acceleration on the road? The 2.2 diesel auto KILLS the 2.5 petrol. Been there, tried that. Had both in our fleet at work. Those that got the petrol then drove my diesel, left regretting it.
    Last edited by Moonlighter; 03-18-2017 at 11:51 PM.

  4. #4
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    Moonlighter, thanks for the gearing! I'll redo my chart and post a 2nd version.

    When comparing acceleration performance, it's always good to remember that HP trumps torque, if the higher-horsepower engine is geared lower to take advantage of it.

    I suspect that driving the diesel (non-drag-race), with fantastic low-rpm torque, would be quite enjoyable!

  5. #5
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    Here's the revised graph.

    I noticed that your final drive ratio for the gas engine is different than mine. My speedo/tach agree with my gearing chart, so there might be differences in US models...


  6. #6
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    CX5 Akera diesel

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    I know that hp trumps torque ......

    But,

    only 9 extra kw from the 2.5 (8.5% more)

    vs

    170nm extra torque from the 2.2! (60% more!!)

  7. #7
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    was 175ps sport manual, now 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav

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    You can't ignore kerb weight or gearing.

    Traditionally in the UK the diesel engine is heavier, and has higher gearing, compared to a petrol.

  8. #8
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    One thing I don't like about the Mazda diesel is that you need to be more conscious of the rev range than with other diesels I've driven. Rev too high and you really do lose power.

    I do like this car a lot and, round town, it is very nippy. I won't buy another Mazda diesel though; as I said, you need to massage the car onto an on ramp at full power, and accelerating in the 60-90mph range is slower than I would like. My previous Volvo was a lower power and smaller plant and tangibly faster in this range, so it's probably gearing.

    * one thing to note, I have the 150bhp diesel. I wonder if the 175bhp is better in the respects I mention? Anyone?

  9. #9
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    was 175ps sport manual, now 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav

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    I don't understand that graph, Mazda have emailed me with an excel graph back in 2013 which shows max torque at 2000 rpm, which they also publish in their brochure.

    Are they saying the engine has now changed for 2015, mazda also quote power in PS or Kilo watts.

    Quote Originally Posted by cx-500 View Post
    A little more explanation...

    The diesel torque peaks at 2600 rpm.
    The gas torque peaks from 3200 to 4200.
    The diesel's 1st gear torque intersects the gas 1st gear torque at 21 MPH.
    Last edited by xtrailman; 03-19-2017 at 04:42 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #10
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    was 175ps sport manual, now 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggity View Post
    One thing I don't like about the Mazda diesel is that you need to be more conscious of the rev range than with other diesels I've driven. Rev too high and you really do lose power.

    I do like this car a lot and, round town, it is very nippy. I won't buy another Mazda diesel though; as I said, you need to massage the car onto an on ramp at full power, and accelerating in the 60-90mph range is slower than I would like. My previous Volvo was a lower power and smaller plant and tangibly faster in this range, so it's probably gearing.

    * one thing to note, I have the 150bhp diesel. I wonder if the 175bhp is better in the respects I mention? Anyone?
    Mazda don't do a 150bhp or 175bhp, its 148bhp or 173 bhp approx. I have to say i don't find the engine lacking in acceleration or pulling power, but i have the 175ps, the 150ps has the torque flatlined over a range mentioned in the brochure 1800 to 2600 rpm from memory, so this could be why you experience reduced power near the top end?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtrailman View Post
    Mazda don't do a 150bhp or 175bhp, its 148bhp or 173 bhp approx. I have to say i don't find the engine lacking in acceleration or pulling power, but i have the 175ps, the 150ps has the torque flatlined over a range mentioned in the brocthure 1800 to 2600 rpm from memory, so this could be why you experience reduced power near the top end?
    I wonder if there's a safe ecu remap that will get me up to the 173bhp?

  12. #12
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    was 175ps sport manual, now 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav

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    There are remaps, the 175ps can go over 200ps, but can the mechanics endure the extra power and torque, that's the question, then we have the issue of insurance and warranty.

    I'm too old now for all that , so i just buy the most powerful version i can, i do like turbo power though so even if we had the 2.5L option I'm not sure i would buy one.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlighter View Post
    I know that hp trumps torque ......

    But,

    only 9 extra kw from the 2.5 (8.5% more)

    vs

    170nm extra torque from the 2.2! (60% more!!)
    Yup, I agree. The CX-5 diesel is a monster!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtrailman View Post
    I don't understand that graph, Mazda have emailed me with an excel graph back in 2013 which shows max torque at 2000 rpm, which they also publish in their brochure.

    Are they saying the engine has now changed for 2015, mazda also quote power in PS or Kilo watts.
    You'll need to post that excel, or ask Versatune...

  15. #15
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    2013 VRM Mazdaspeed3, 2016 Soul Red CX-5 GT

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    I still think, 187 hp will trump 175 hp as far as highway speed passing goes, because Horsepower = torque x RPM / 5252. When doing a highway pass while WOT, you will be high in the RPM range where you will get more horsepower from the NA 2.5 engine than the diesel engine. High torque numbers will give the feeling of really strong acceleration yes, but the horsepower numbers determine at what speed that acceleration is available. High torque, low horsepower means the car is really quick in city driving but will be relatively slower on the highways.

    Like I said in another thread though, I would like to be proven wrong. Can't wait to test out the differences in a test drive when the diesel engine becomes available here in the US.


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