Oil Pump going bad...Has this happened to anyone else? 2.0L Gas

R

rjdee

:
CX5 Sport MT
Situation,

Oil light lit up, Oil level is fine, sounds are all normal. 2013 CX-5 6MT, 112,000 miles. US

The light is only triggered after driving at highway speeds ~3000rpm for a few minutes. I can drive backroads for 1 hour+ without a problem.

I've seen the TSB that helps diagnose a restriction in the oil pickup in the oil pan vs a bad oil pump.

Dealer says the pump is bad/failing since it can't maintain the needed pressure at higher rpms. Pressure reads low but not horrible (19psi, spec is 25psi if I remember correctly) at low rpm. Dealer is blaming oil contamination and long change intervals. Always used proper synthetic and while I max the interval, it's changed frequently.

Estimate to replace oil pump is ~$1400. They haven't dropped the oil pan to investigate. My gut thinks it's this should be the first place to start. The pump can't generate pressure if it can't get the needed fluid. I am going to get a second opinion. I'm distrustful of dealers in general as my experience has been they usually throw parts at a problem instead of finding the root cause.

During the discussion they started listing all the other "problems", needs spark plugs, brake fluid, transmission fluid, coolant, etc and finally referring me to sales since I was still digesting their "recommendation". Plugs, brake fluid and tranny fluid have all been replaced, they just don't have record of it since I don't use a dealer.

Anyone with a gas skyactive with oil pickup, oil pump experience?
 
$1,400 to replace an oil pump. That is sick. I think Mazda used a different system for setting oil pressure depending on engine low & RPM. I don't have time to find the information now but maybe later. Ed
 
Wow, 112k miles. Since you're long out of warranty, I would not bother with a dealer anymore and go with a reputable shop you can trust that won't upsell you on junk you don't need. I bet $1400 can be reduced by at least 1/3rd just by the hourly charge savings.
 
Isn't the oil pump geared? So it cannot slip. It *will* develop higher pressures at higher RPM. If pressures are dropping at high RPM, that suggests there's a restriction from the oil pan to the pump...

If you are out of warranty, I'd just go to a heavier oil. $1,400 is a significant portion of the value of the car...
 
craigo said:
Wow, 112k miles. Since you're long out of warranty, I would not bother with a dealer anymore and go with a reputable shop you can trust that won't upsell you on junk you don't need. I bet $1400 can be reduced by at least 1/3rd just by the hourly charge savings.
Click to expand...


I'm definitely taking it to my local guy. He'll be happy to work on this rig instead of my rusty Suburban.

Per the TSB:
RPM Normal oil pressure
650 50 kpa (7 psi) or more
1,500 110-175 kpa (16.0 - 25.3 psi)
4,500 300-430 kpa (43.6 - 62.3 psi)

My car tested at within spec and holding for idle and 1,500 rpm.
4,500 58psi and then drops to 38psi which is slightly below spec. The pump is designed to reduce pressure under load, but I don't know the when the relief valve is activated.

TSB which is for warranty billing says to replace Oil Pump if psi is low, 4 billable hours. Also states to just clean the oil pan and strainer if pressure is within spec. The pump is looks to be about $200 so it's not that expensive, labor appears to be the biggest expense. I hate replacing parts when it's unnecessary but also realize it's more efficient to replace some parts since it'll be accessible. Dealer was way too expensive.
 
TheMAN said:
what oil and filter are you using?
Click to expand...

I've used primarily Mobil 1. I know a lot of folks talk about the moly oil. I've never touched it. Filters have mostly been OEM but I believe the latest one is a NAPA gold.
 
cx-500 said:
Isn't the oil pump geared? So it cannot slip. It *will* develop higher pressures at higher RPM. If pressures are dropping at high RPM, that suggests there's a restriction from the oil pan to the pump...

If you are out of warranty, I'd just go to a heavier oil. $1,400 is a significant portion of the value of the car...
Click to expand...

Pump is chain driven. No evidence that it has slipped. Pump is designed with a bypass valve and a relief valve to keep the pressure from going too high. Concern is that it's dropping too low. I agree that it seems like a restriction in the pickup and a simple cleaning will fix it.

I'm way out of warranty and yes $1,400 is a significant part of the value but it's way cheaper than something new and it's not going to depreciate much more.
 
All you have to do os drop the oil pan and you can access the pump. Can't remeber if you jave to remove the ns which is like 6 bolts. 1400 is a rip. Wonder of the sensor is bad.
 
rjdee said:
I've used primarily Mobil 1. I know a lot of folks talk about the moly oil. I've never touched it. Filters have mostly been OEM but I believe the latest one is a NAPA gold.
Click to expand...

why don't you try putting on the OEM filter again and see if it fixes it?
most aftermarket filters are NOT compatible with the skyactiv engine... the skyactiv engine needs a high flow, high pressure capable filter while still having a high filtration media... none of the aftermarket filters can do this and in fact are "compatible" with this engine only in that they physically thread in due to the fact that older mazda engines have the same filter sizes... aftermarket companies simply took the filters meant for those older engines and claim they work with the skyactiv

the only brand of filter that is known to have a specific skyactiv filter (no applications for other cars) is from WIX... even then, there's been big debates over it on other forums

this engine is very sensitive to the oil and filter used... if this engine had aftermarket filters off and on, the damage to it could have been cumulative
 
TheMAN said:
why don't you try putting on the OEM filter again and see if it fixes it?
most aftermarket filters are NOT compatible with the skyactiv engine... the skyactiv engine needs a high flow, high pressure capable filter while still having a high filtration media... none of the aftermarket filters can do this and in fact are "compatible" with this engine only in that they physically thread in due to the fact that older mazda engines have the same filter sizes... aftermarket companies simply took the filters meant for those older engines and claim they work with the skyactiv

the only brand of filter that is known to have a specific skyactiv filter (no applications for other cars) is from WIX... even then, there's been big debates over it on other forums

this engine is very sensitive to the oil and filter used... if this engine had aftermarket filters off and on, the damage to it could have been cumulative
Click to expand...

+1 on this. I've had a few filters clog up or get restrictive on me a few times triggering an oil light. It's a cheap thing to try. Sometimes you just get one that's bad.
 
Last edited:
Napa Gold 7002 meets the skyactiv PSI specs.

FYI, There may be other Napa gold (or other filters) AND even OEM filters that fit....but do not meet higher PSI specs a skyactiv engine calls for.

Try using a correct OEM filter with correct part# then run diagnostics. That said, I wonder if our OBDII Bluetooth scanners some of us have here can detect and diagnosis this issue? Would you look for an oil PSI reading or fault?
 
Chris_Top_Her said:
All you have to do os drop the oil pan and you can access the pump. Can't remeber if you jave to remove the ns which is like 6 bolts. 1400 is a rip. Wonder of the sensor is bad.
Click to expand...

Bad oil pressure sensor is another common problem triggering the oil light.
 
CX-5um said:
Napa Gold 7002 meets the skyactiv PSI specs.

FYI, There may be other Napa gold (or other filters) AND even OEM filters that fit....but do not meet higher PSI specs a skyactiv engine calls for.

Try using a correct OEM filter with correct part# then run diagnostics. That said, I wonder if our OBDII Bluetooth scanners some of us have here can detect and diagnosis this issue? Would you look for an oil PSI reading or fault?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input on the filter. I can easily give that a try.

Regarding Bluetooth scanners, does anyone have one that can read real time oil pressure? That would be the only way to confirm the filter is causing the condition.
Another reason I hate the warning lights instead of old school gauges.
 
madar said:
Bad oil pressure sensor is another common problem triggering the oil light.
Click to expand...

The dealer is say they tested the sensor and the connection. They did a separate test of the oil pressure to verify it was NOT a bad sensor.
 
rjdee said:
Thanks for the input on the filter. I can easily give that a try.

Regarding Bluetooth scanners, does anyone have one that can read real time oil pressure? That would be the only way to confirm the filter is causing the condition.
Another reason I hate the warning lights instead of old school gauges.
Click to expand...

If possible report what filter model# you are currently using. If I recall correctly, non-skyactiv filters that actually fit are 8-11 PSI. Skyactiv Filters should be 11-14 PSI. I'm not sure how much this affects your current issue but something to make note of.

I checked my $5 Torque app and it does not have an option for oil pressure I can see. If the engine has an oil pressure sensor there should be away to view it in real time. I'm not knowledgeable enough for this solution though.
 
OP,

do you have access to a service manual??

The "Service Highlights" section has LOTS and LOTS of info about the oil pump of the CX-5.

One component that sticks out is the Engine Oil Solenoid valve.
It's a valve that closes when RPM is high and it increases the oil pressure.

attachment.php


This valve being stuck closed would explain why you get good pressure at LOW RPM but not at high RPM.

This valve is attached to the outside of the engine block and a competent mechanic should be able to replace it in 10 minutes flat.
 

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CX-5um said:
If possible report what filter model# you are currently using. If I recall correctly, non-skyactiv filters that actually fit are 8-11 PSI. Skyactiv Filters should be 11-14 PSI. I'm not sure how much this affects your current issue but something to make note of.

I checked my $5 Torque app and it does not have an option for oil pressure I can see. If the engine has an oil pressure sensor there should be away to view it in real time. I'm not knowledgeable enough for this solution though.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have a sensor that measures PSI like a gauge; it really only picks up with the psi is like 5. Before I replaced my engine the oil light didnt blip until 5psi (i have a gauge).. pretty much too late under most circumstances in an actual low oil situation.
 
Time for an update.

Finally got the oil pump replaced from a second dealer. They didn't do any additional diagnosis but did the job for $400 less than my original quote. I would've liked to put my own hands and eyes into the oil pan or to try a simple oil change to see if the problem was a clogged oil filter or a restriction in the oil pickup but I needed to get this car on the highway again.

I tried having my local repair guy do the job. He specializes on Automotive A/C, Radiator etc type work and has been a solutions oriented guy instead just keep replacing parts. Unfortunately he didn't have the software to read the Mazda codes and felt it was a job for someone more familiar with this car.

I didn't have an itemized quote from the Werner Mazda in Manchester NH but it totaled $1333.70 (including drive belt replacement, oil and filter).
Seacoast Mazda charged me $912.58 for the pump, strainer, oil and filter. $569.94 of that was labor.

Now to find a resolution to the window tint. Car failed the state inspection because the aftermarket tint is too dark. I've had the tint on since summer of 2012 with no problems. Now it won't pass because VLT is 25%, state limit is 35% in NH on back windows. Factory tint of any VLT is okay the restriction is only on aftermarket and this tint isn't as dark as the factory. Grrrrrr.
 
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