Strange Engine Vibration/resonance noise at 2300 RPM

ctbale said:

Driving it tonight, noise still there. I am thinking exhaust. Kind of fits. Happens at a certain rpm, increases with throttle pressure. Maybe a bad weld internally to cat, or muff. Nothing visible from exterior. The tech said to pull the entire length, from header to the tail pipes is a job. Sub frame has to get dropped to pull the header pipe. He was leaning towards the mounts. But I am thinking exhaust. Will know what Mazda says Monday .... I hope. It took 5 or 6 trips to the tire store, and now thats PERFECT! I am like a dog with a bone dam-it, I aint lettin go!! The other one that crossed my mind is engine out-put shaft bearing? Again, a bad bearing there would be sensitive to Rpm and engine torque

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Wait, so are you talking about kindof a "washer in a metal pipe being sworled around" noise which becomes MUCH more notable with throttle applied?

Unobtanium said:

Wait, so are you talking about kindof a "washer in a metal pipe being sworled around" noise which becomes MUCH more notable with throttle applied?

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hmmm, not sure about that.

here is a way to describe it. If you ever had an old motorcycle, and on that motorcycle there is an exhaust. and on the exhaust there is a heat shield, and the heat shield is held on with 4 screws. But one of the screws has fallen out. Now when you are riding that motorbike, the heat shield might not rattle all the time. It might just rattle when your at a certain RPM. But the difference on my "rattle/resonance" is it will need both that certain RPM AND throttle pressure(torque?)

Whats bumming me out is I dont think the Dealer knows how much of a big deal this is to me. Its ruining my experience with this car. Sometimes after driving it I am flat out pissed off. But I just got to keep pushing, if I need to go there every f*$king day for the next month, well thats what I am going to do.

ctbale said:

hmmm, not sure about that.

here is a way to describe it. If you ever had an old motorcycle, and on that motorcycle there is an exhaust. and on the exhaust there is a heat shield, and the heat shield is held on with 4 screws. But one of the screws has fallen out. Now when you are riding that motorbike, the heat shield might not rattle all the time. It might just rattle when your at a certain RPM. But the difference on my "rattle/resonance" is it will need both that certain RPM AND throttle pressure(torque?)

Whats bumming me out is I dont think the Dealer knows how much of a big deal this is to me. Its ruining my experience with this car. Sometimes after driving it I am flat out pissed off. But I just got to keep pushing, if I need to go there every f*$king day for the next month, well thats what I am going to do.

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I have a tiny touch of heat shield sounding rattle on my CX-5 when it's cold and idling or at very low rpm. I had similar on a mustang at some RPM's. I fixed it with pliars. Some of the heat shield was touching the exhaust. Just needed bending.

Went through HELL with Nissan over the brakes on my 370Z though.

-Lied to by service manager (was told to buy aftermarket brakes to withstand my "driving style", which his tech said was actually VERY light on the brakes, after datalogging a 20 minute ride with me.) and then he told Nissan corporate that he NEVER would advise that I buy non-Nissan OEM parts for a new car. (The Z1 slotted rotors were toast 500 miles after I got them...)

-Spent months with THIS kind of bulls***:

-Multiple times I was out of a car as they did not have a loaner.

Finally I had a little mini melt-down and rolled up in the dealership loud AF and yelling at the service manager and they locked me in his office until multiple service techs and another manager arrived and we talked it out. I'm not huge, but at 200# and ripped, which was a lot more than he brought to the table, I guess the pencil-neck was scared I might go beyond words, and s*** FINALLY happened, and they FINALLY drove my car, and "Dude, I almost wrecked your car in a corner because the wheel got nearly ripped out of my hands when I applied the brakes" was the response.

FINALLY things happened, Nissan corporate reimbursed me for new brakes/pads up front, (I was SOL on my Z1 rotors and Stoptech pads...and will never buy Nissan again), and the GT-R trained tech later told me that they found out it was due to the overtightening of the lug-nuts using a pneumatic wrench, and a hand-tool should be used on the GT-R and 370Z, and I never had brakes issues with the Z again. but the power steering still whined like a cheap supercharger. So many foibles, that car. But yeah man, I know your angst! Yelling at them and getting in their face probably wasn't the best way to handle it....but I solved the problem. Oh, that service manager got fired as well, likely not for what happened, but it did play a role I understand. That was the second person at that dealership that ended up fired on my account. The first was when I got the car, and aftermarket exhaust install was included in my purchase deal, and the tech slammed the lift arm into the door sill and scratched it through the paint and then said "You know how it is with them low ridin' cars" and just shrugged like he didn't give a damn. No "I'm sorry, OMG bro, I will tell the manager and we can discuss what we need to do", none of that. Just a "IDK". That was his last day there.

christ, nice to get that shake documented on video. I might have to upload the one I took when my tires were at their worst. freeking waterbottle in the center counsol would shake back and forth. nutz. I am going to start to turn up the heat on these guys real soon. I aint lettin this go thats for sure. I asked the service manager to have the tech top the diff and xfer case oil with SG1, trying to cover all my basis on the noise, and I read here some have been low. Was under the rear end yesterday, no wrench marks on the 23mm plug. WTF!!?? I did this earlier, but I am going to do it more agresivly, but I am going to wire the exhaust in 2 or 3 places to the frame. Kind of side loading it slightly to assist in troubleshooting. This would be like putting your hand on something and seeing if the vibration changes. If it reduces it, I will push for full exhaust swap. You mention over torque on yours. I have racked my brain about that on mine. I have had so many people pulling these wheels on/off, trying to think how it could have been f-ed up. but just cant see it on my deal

Its the Exhaust! Wired the s*** out of the exhaust at 4 locations to the places that the rubber hangers mount. NO VIBRATION at 2300 any more. So I now know its the exhaust now, "cheese&rice!!! .....


FYI: I posted all this crap, #1 to see if anyone else had same issue, to help me figure it out, #2 when I figure(d) it out, I hope I can help someone with the same issue.

Now I need to find a good fix. Might just make Mazda replace exhaust. But might try new mounts first. either way, happy to have narrowed it down to the exhaust.

ctbale said:

Its the Exhaust! Wired the s*** out of the exhaust at 4 locations to the places that the rubber hangers mount. NO VIBRATION at 2300 any more. So I now know its the exhaust now, jesus christ .....

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(popcorn)

ctbale said:

Its the Exhaust! Wired the s*** out of the exhaust at 4 locations to the places that the rubber hangers mount. NO VIBRATION at 2300 any more. So I now know its the exhaust now, "cheese&rice!!! .....

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Glad to hear you finally isolated the issue and this should be a relief after you encountered wield problems one after another. But I simply feel like Mazda North American Operations should pay you for the excellent jobs you've done resolving the warranty issues "they" supposed to fix, not you!

We definitely appreciate your posting so that we know what would be a possible cause when others have similar issues.

Thanks, been a journey. And I hope people like mazdadude were thoroughly entertained.

So in a nutshell:

Flatspotted the yokos
(poorly) installed firestones, then got them correctly balanced, but they still sucked
replaced one bad firestone (road force) after many visits to the "rack"
heard the vib problem coming on while battling with the tires but wanted to keep my eye on fixing the tires sucking
Firestone stepped up and replaced all 4 tires, w/pirelis. car rides smooth and quiet (yes!!)
then battled the vib, and the vib was T.S. to exhaust system, permanent fix TBD

FFS!!


But super happy, exhaust rattle is really no big deal and my car is good!!! Did I say I am stoked!! Oh yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ctbale said:

Its the Exhaust! Wired the s*** out of the exhaust at 4 locations to the places that the rubber hangers mount. NO VIBRATION at 2300 any more. So I now know its the exhaust now, "cheese&rice!!! .....


FYI: I posted all this crap, #1 to see if anyone else had same issue, to help me figure it out, #2 when I figure(d) it out, I hope I can help someone with the same issue.

Now I need to find a good fix. Might just make Mazda replace exhaust. But might try new mounts first. either way, happy to have narrowed it down to the exhaust.

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Well done!

brought my cx5 to the dealer, told them what I had found out by trouble shooting with the wire and hose clamps, 4 days later they called me back and said they acknowledge the problem, they said they "took a video" of the problem and talked to "Chicago engineering" Said they are working on a fix but recommend leaving on the hose clamps because it helps the problem.

Thoughts?

here is my thoughts: F- mazda!!!!!!!

skip it!!!

skip it!! again

I told Jim Cruz I wanted a written estimate on how much it would cost to replace my exhaust from engine to tail pipes. I told him I was intending to replace it on MY DIME. I told him then I would seek re-reimbursement from Mazda .....FFS!!!!


I HATE LAZY, INCOMPETENT people!!!!!!

I can feel your pain and frustration if my brand new 2016.5 CX-5 is having many issues like you, although they're not major, added with an incompetent dealer handling your problems. I was surprised you're willing to pay for the whole set of tires which should be covered under warranty. Now again you're willing to pay for the exhaust system which is supposed to be covered under warranty and get the reimbursement back later? I wouldn't do that as your problem should be covered under warranty. At this stage I think the best way is to deal with Mazda North American Operatieons directly, use another Mazda dealer if possible, and try to get issue resolved under warranty, not from your own pocket!

yrwei52 said:

I can feel your pain and frustration if my brand new 2016.5 CX-5 is having many issues like you, although they're not major, added with an incompetent dealer handling your problems. I was surprised you're willing to pay for the whole set of tires which should be covered under warranty. Now again you're willing to pay for the exhaust system which is supposed to be covered under warranty and get the reimbursement back later? I wouldn't do that as your problem should be covered under warranty. At this stage I think the best way is to deal with Mazda North American Operatieons directly, use another Mazda dealer if possible, and try to get issue resolved under warranty, not from your own pocket!

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On the tires, I could have got Yokohama to warranty them from flat spotting, but I was driving across the united states and the hopping was bad, and I didnt want to stop in Montana for a week while I battled to get new tires. I had a good history with the firestones on TWO other vehicles. But shot myself in the foot, took like 7 trips to tires stores, but got the pirelies, so thats good (still smooootth)

Now I called "customer experience" at 800 222 5500, the guy was cool but he said once mazda engineering says no to more repairs, the dealer isint going to get paid, so the dealer is done. I think they said no more repairs is because Morries Mazda told them "its not really that bad, let the customer live with it" Its such a bunch of bulls***. I like the car but the noise is a no-go. Jim Cruz at Morries Mazda was such a piece of s*** it was unbelievable. I picked up the car today, was telling him they did a half assed job trying to fix my car, I even diagnosed the problem to most likely the exhaust. He said Mazda Enginerring said to stop. Stop what??? The f#ckers didnt do anything!!!!! Totally f#cking Bull s***. I said are you really advising me to keep the clamps on, he said "take them off, what do I care?"

Made an appointment at Walser Mazda. Talked to the head of the service dept, told him my story, said to bring it in, fingers crossed. I am hopping he is chompin at the bit to make Morries Mazda look bad, but Morries Mazda sucks so bad they dont need any help!!!!

I am hoping that Walser would say, yea, its fixable lets just put an exhaust and/or motor mounts on.

You need to open the warranty book that came with your car. It tells you what to do and the chain of command. You've completed 2 of 3 steps. After Mazda corp is the BBB program.

BBB! excellent advice, I will do that!

FYI on Mazda North America Operations. If you call them at 949 727 1990, and say something like, "hello, I am calling to find out who I can talk to about getting an issue with my 2016 CX5 resolved" She transfers you to the Mazda Customer Experience dept somewhere between 2016 and CX5, to same one I called at 800 222 5500. The guy call Jim "Fastso" Cruz and after Fastso Cruz rebuffed the guy, "Billy" was his name, Billy kind of admitted that even though the dealers carry the mazda name, his dept couldnt really make them do anything. No teeth really. So its the lemon law, which I cant do because if you know anything about the lemon law its a state law and you have to bring the action in the state where purchased, BBB (I will pursue that) or fix it your self and file a conciliation court action to recover. I spoke with a Lemon Law atty last week, he said I would most likely prevail, but would have to file in Oregon. Thats not going to happen. So I hope Walser can fix it, then BBB, then I will either sell it or fix it and sue. My brother is an attorney and he said I should win, and get my $200 filing fees as well. Wouldnt it just be EZier for Mazda to fix it? Wonder how Honda or Toyota would handle the same complaint?

PS I would prevail under the mag/moss act because this noise "materially affects the resale value" no s***!!!

Same buzzing noise just popped up, sounds like a heat shield rattle. I am taking it in to the dealer Friday.

Now that I am beojg certified on multi engine planes i know exactly what he means about prop sync. And the sceneca we use has no indicator so you have to play with the rpm. My car gets a whine too but i only notice it when i have passengers because when im alone my wondows are 100% open