Daytime running lights dim/flickering

So let's put some numbers to the figures floating around here in this thread. 50,000 hours lifetime for an LED. If you drive 20,000 miles per year (above the national average) and only average 20 mph (you're stuck in traffic most of the time) your DRL's will be on 1,000 hours per year. That's 50 years worth of lighting from the LED's. Even if the the LED's only last 25,000 hours it's 25 years. So the LED's themselves aren't the problem.

But there is an issue with some 2016 LED DRL's from "apparently by either poor design and/or inferior parts". The problem for me is I haven't seen any failure analysis or similar to really know what the problem is (or was). Some component out of spec? Pushing a component past its ability? At this point who knows? Hopefully Mazda/Stanley knows. You can bet Mazda went back to Stanley (the maker of the assembly) and asked WTF?

At this point the important question for a 2017-18 buyer/owner is, did Mazda/Stanley (assuming Stanley is making the new assembly) learn from the past? I bet they did. You may not think so. To each their own.
 
yrwei52 said:
And we dont know if gen-2 LED headlights would have issues in the future. My point is still why risk?
Click to expand...

One simple reason. SAFETY. I do a lot of driving on 2 lane highways. If I didn't have DRL's I would have my main headlights on more often (I already have the auto setting as sensitive as possible). I want to give the potential idiot that is coming towards me and thinking about passing or the distracted driver that's at a cross intersection a better chance of seeing me.
 
brillo54 said:
So let's put some numbers to the figures floating around here in this thread. 50,000 hours lifetime for an LED. If you drive 20,000 miles per year (above the national average) and only average 20 mph (you're stuck in traffic most of the time) your DRL's will be on 1,000 hours per year. That's 50 years worth of lighting from the LED's. Even if the the LED's only last 25,000 hours it's 25 years. So the LED's themselves aren't the problem.

But there is an issue with some 2016 LED DRL's from "apparently by either poor design and/or inferior parts". The problem for me is I haven't seen any failure analysis or similar to really know what the problem is (or was). Some component out of spec? Pushing a component past its ability? At this point who knows? Hopefully Mazda/Stanley knows. You can bet Mazda went back to Stanley (the maker of the assembly) and asked WTF?

At this point the important question for a 2017-18 buyer/owner is, did Mazda/Stanley (assuming Stanley is making the new assembly) learn from the past? I bet they did. You may not think so. To each their own.
Click to expand...
I believe youre the only member with 2016 CX-5 here still have factory LED headlights. Among all my friends and family two with 2016 CX-5 both have failed LED headlights.

Mazda and Stanley definitely have been studying the failure as the unit is expensive and it has been failing a lot earlier than intended to. They should have figured out the true cause of the failure after many revisions of headlight units. But for gen-2 CX-5 with LED low-beam headlights on all the time, if I had one I certainly dont want to take any chances on early failure due to the heavier usage、higher light power output which generates more heat even thought the LED itself should last 50,000 hours.

Mazda North American Operations should configure DRL setup on gen-2 US CX-5 exactly like other regions, or even like 2016 CX-5, with dedicated LED DRLs. But I can understand why because they want to save the cost of dedicated DRL LEDs. Multi-usage on a single element, low-beam also been used as DRL, can never be a good idea. Spreading the usage can always prolong the product life. Thiss another example of penny wise, pound foolish decision made by MNAO.
 
brillo54 said:
One simple reason. SAFETY. I do a lot of driving on 2 lane highways. If I didn't have DRL's I would have my main headlights on more often (I already have the auto setting as sensitive as possible). I want to give the potential idiot that is coming towards me and thinking about passing or the distracted driver that's at a cross intersection a better chance of seeing me.
Click to expand...
The safety effect on DRL has been debated since 1980*s. Of course GM is a big pusher as they started it in the US. But based on many studies the safety effect at least in US environment is not conclusive. That's why DOT and NHTSA are not willing to make DRL as a mandatory equipment for automobiles in the US.

I keep my LED accent strip DRLs on because I think they look cool, not for safety reason. If they failed again, I simply just ignore them as I*m not going to spend $2,400 just for DRLs. But if the low-beam / DRLs failed on me if I had a gen-2 CX-5, I can*t ignore them and that*s a very expensive fix!
 
Last edited:
I don't need a "study" to tell me DRLs are effective. I'd also like to see any modern car made in the last few years that doesn't have them in the US.
 
yrwei52 said:
I believe youre the only member with 2016 CX-5 here still have factory LED headlights. Among all my friends and family two with 2016 CX-5 both have failed LED headlights.
Click to expand...

Maybe the only member here but my sister also has a 2016 CX-5 (Mfg. Date 11/15, bought 2/16, 22,000 miles) and no problems with the DRL's (I made a point to check on this at our annual family reunion this past weekend in Cincinnati). We've had existing members relate DRL problems and owners join specifically because of DRL problems but do you think anyone has joined Mazdas247 just to tell us their DRL's are still working just fine? Really? LOL I'm not a Unicorn with the only functional factory DRL's in captivity.


Mazda and Stanley definitely have been studying the failure as the unit is expensive and it has been failing a lot earlier than intended to. They should have figured out the true cause of the failure after many revisions of headlight units. But for gen-2 CX-5 with LED low-beam headlights on all the time, if I had one I certainly dont want to take any chances on early failure due to the heavier usage、higher light power output which generates more heat even thought the LED itself should last 50,000 hours.

Mazda North American Operations should configure DRL setup on gen-2 US CX-5 exactly like other regions, or even like 2016 CX-5, with dedicated LED DRLs. But I can understand why because they want to save the cost of dedicated DRL LEDs. Multi-usage on a single element, low-beam also been used as DRL, can never be a good idea. Spreading the usage can always prolong the product life. Thiss another example of penny wise, pound foolish decision made by MNAO.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm not buying this. When a Gen-2 headlight is in DRL mode the light output from the LED headlight is reduced and thus the heat produce is reduced. For example, if the voltage to the LED headlight is at 95% of the normal level the power needed to be dissipated is 90% of the original amount. 90% of the voltage would mean 81% of full power to be dissipated, 85% would be 72%. It's a squared relationship. I'd be willing to bet if any Gen-2 unit fails, it will be when the full headlight is on, not because of DRL usage.
 
Even if we take everything Yrwei talks about as fact, he even suggests this problem was fixed with the newer "J Style" headlights. So, again assuming he's 100% correct, Mazda found a problem. Mazda then released an improved headlight assembly to fix said problem. But he then assumes the 17+18 LED's could suffer the same fate?!?
I'd bet anything if the 16 issue is true, that Mazda made damn sure this new generation of lights do not suffer from those same issues.
 
Totally agree 7. Consider Stanley as part of the equation too. You can bet Mazda went back to them for reimbursement (at least partial) so they didn't have to eat the entire cost themselves. Stanley doesn't want Round 2 either.
 
Both of you missed my point. 2016 CX-5 doesn't use LED low-beams as DRLs but gen-2 uses them. And you two also ignored the fact that in every other region the gen-2 CX-5 has dedicated LED DRLs which will spread the usage between LEDs hence prolong the service life on both. Reduced power is achieved by force-passing a resister, not by lowing the voltage which would be expensive to do. Total heat generated will be the same whether or not these LEDs are in DRL mode or low-beam mode although the heat source may be at different locations. I bet the problem on 2016 DRL is caused by heat, that's why the "J" version uses lower powered LEDs for DRL which may fix the problem.

No, many reports on failed LED DRLs are not from new members. The OP, arunka007, is not. The latest failure report by Srad600 is not. Of course I'm not. It can be either way. My friend with failed LED DRLs will never post his problem here instead he decided not to buy any Mazda after he purchased two. Srad600 didn't report his first failure until the second failure on the other side.
 
Everyday I see other brands of cars with led drls that are burned out or whatever Its a common issue it seems and its not a Mazda unique problem.

So far no problems with the 17.
 
Puyapim said:
Everyday I see other brands of cars with led drls that are burned out or whatever It*s a common issue it seems and it*s not a Mazda unique problem.
Click to expand...

Which is why I will not agree at all with Yrwei on this earlier posts. Seems LEDs have some reliability issues to work through before they become a better option than my lights going out and a pair of bulbs costing me $20-$25. And agreed that it is not a strictly Mazda issue with LEDs failing.

ColoradoDriver said:
Meanwhile just googled lightbulbs for my headlights and a pair was like $25.

Sometimes tech not always better [emoji14]
Click to expand...

yrwei52 said:
No, tech is always better, but it's the poor quality and reliability are making the issues *
Click to expand...

No, just no. Just look at the most over engineered cars in the market (German cars) and how abysmal they are on reliability. "Higher tech" not always better and most certainly often not cheaper.
 
Last edited:
yrwei52 said:
Both of you missed my point. 2016 CX-5 doesn't use LED low-beams as DRLs but gen-2 uses them. I understand, I just don't think it's important. And you two also ignored the fact that in every other region the gen-2 CX-5 has dedicated LED DRLs which will spread the usage between LEDs hence prolong the service life on both. This philosophy was used on the 2016 yet didn't work in your view. Reduced power is achieved by force-passing a resister, not by lowing the voltage which would be expensive to do. Do you have a source for this statement? Total heat generated will be the same whether or not these LEDs are in DRL mode or low-beam mode although the heat source may be at different locations. Whether they use a simple voltage divider or whatever method, the voltage at the LED low-beam bulb will be reduced and thus the temperature at the bulb decreased and longevity will increase. (As long as the resistor is sized correctly.) I bet the problem on 2016 DRL is caused by heat, that's why the "J" version uses lower powered LEDs for DRL which may fix the problem.

No, many reports on failed LED DRLs are not from new members. The OP, arunka007, is not. The latest failure report by Srad600 is not. Of course I'm not. It can be either way. My friend with failed LED DRLs will never post his problem here instead he decided not to buy any Mazda after he purchased two. Srad600 didn't report his first failure until the second failure on the other side.
Click to expand...

Please reread the first part of my post #247. I refer to both existing members and new members (Ladder13 and incogneato are in the latter category and have posted in this thread). But my real point is that there are 2016 CX-5 owners like my sister that haven't experienced DRL failure and won't ever be here to report it since being on a Mazda users forum is not on their list of things to do.
 
Last edited:
Unofficial survey watching cars on the way home. You know who doesn't do DRLs? Ford. By a huge margin. Roughly 4 out of 5 newer cars I saw without them were Ford. Geez, Ford...get on the stick! Lol
 
Last edited:
If we want to talk products that have 100% failure rate...

Lenovo T410...that was a product that had a 100% failure rate of the CPU fan. Every single one my company bought back in the day (hundreds) over several shipments and a wide range of time (so not all the same batch)...failed at some point in their 3 year lifecycle.
 
yrwei52 said:
The safety effect on DRL has been debated since 1980*s. Of course GM is a big pusher as they started it in the US. But based on many studies the safety effect at least in US environment is not conclusive. That's why DOT and NHTSA are not willing to make DRL as a mandatory equipment for automobiles in the US.

I keep my LED accent strip DRLs on because I think they look cool, not for safety reason. If they failed again, I simply just ignore them as I*m not going to spend $2,400 just for DRLs. But if the low-beam / DRLs failed on me if I had a gen-2 CX-5, I can*t ignore them and that*s a very expensive fix!
Click to expand...

dude, there's no debate. Being able to see an incoming car easier is 100% a safety feature. The LEDs are better than the halogens because they catch your eye easier. Besides the fact that LED accent DRLs look cool, every single manufacturer lists them under the "safety" features of the car, right next to airbags.
 
Add another one to the list. 2016 CX-5 GT purchased in May *15 with just over 21k miles on it. Unfortunately we are 3months past the 36month warranty now. Passenger side just started flickering/dim.

Looked on the label and it is a reversion (C) with a 2014 production date on it. The drivers side was replaced last year due to a hit-n-run and is a revision (H) with a 2017 production date on it.

Called Mazda customer relations and have a case started, just need to get the local service advisor to look at this and create a repair ticket (hopefully without charging me a diagnostic fee, ughh). Will report back what (if anything Mazda is still covering for out of warranty repairs on this).
 
Good news. Mazda Customer Experience has authorized the replacement of the headlight stating I will only be responsible for the labor. Waiting until Monday to call my service advisor to find out what that cost is? Anyone know what the Mazda tech labor time is for a headlight replacement on the CX-5? I saw a YouTube video on the bumper removal by *happywrenching* and i*d Gather it*s under 15 minutes to pull the bumper by an experienced tech (probably less). Don*t know if the headlight requires any special adjusting, etc after install.

Thank you to this forum, this thread and those that suggested calling Mazda customer experience/Mazda North America. It was painless and despite what others have experienced, I got to speak with someone in 5 minutes, he created a case and was very responsive thru email afterwards once I got the car into the dealer to document the issue and create a repair order! I feel like they treated me fairly considering the car is technically out of warranty (even though this does *appear* to be a larger issue with the design of the DRL). My local Mazda service advisor is top notch also getting me in and out of the dealer in 10minutes!
 
That is great news!

Now that we have an '18, I've made it a point to keep a look out for first generation CX5's with one DRL that is out, and I see it a lot. Hope the 17-18 lights hold up better!
 
It'll be an hour of labor minimum.
How do you access the sticker to see what version you have? Asked before never got an answer.
I still have yet to see one with a bad DRL.
 
7eregrine said:
It'll be an hour of labor minimum.
How do you access the sticker to see what version you have? Asked before never got an answer.
I still have yet to see one with a bad DRL.
Click to expand...
It has been discussed in page 10 of this thread. The part label is on the back of the headlight housing. It was fairly easy to find by looking in the engine bay. Use smart phone to reach down taking picture is the best way to see.

yrwei52 said:
Wife just got back and its raining. Here are the info of my replacement LED headlights:

Passenger's side (installed 3/17/2018):
HL Sticker states: KA0G-51-030H (Manufacture date 12/28/2017)
Invoice states: KA0G-51-031J Unit (R), Head Lamp

attachment.php

View attachment 218909

Driver's side (installed 3/17/2018):
HL Sticker states: KA0G-51-040H (Manufacture date 12/13/2017)
Invoice states: KA0G-51-041J Unit (L), Head Lamp

attachment.php

View attachment 218910

So your H version LED headlight seems to be the same as my J version after all. :)
Click to expand...
 
Please log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
2020 CX-5 daytime running lamps (DRL) not working
Replies
5
Views
4K
cz5gt
cz5gt
S
Disable daytime running lights? 2022 CX-5
2
Replies
31
Views
4K
7eregrine
7eregrine
ColoradoDriver
Osram Nightbreaker headlights - burnt out after a year
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
PatriciaRob
P

Latest posts

Back