More shock travel

woot woot

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Mazda 2
Hi
Was just wanted to get peoples opinions on raising the front of my car. It currently sits 1.5cms lower than the rear when measured from the same point on the wheel, and since the ride is fairly poo over bumpy roads i wanted to know if raising the front another 1.5cms will allow for a noticeable difference in ride quality since it will allow more shock travel?

The car does get unsettled over bumps in straight lines and when braking causes abs to trigger very easily. I have not noticed how the car reacts during bumps in corners and seems okay from memory. Is there a good way to test this?

I know this is as good as anyone's guess but will it change the camber a lot? It currently sits on 2.2 and 2.4 both sides. I had elongated holes on the shock to hub mounts, but they are now welded shut after coming loose at the track.

The car is currently corner weighted at the current height and know it will loose it but i feel i need to refine the settings more to be happier with how the car handles and reacts over bumps.

I am currently looking at possibly upgrading to swift springs also but don't want to spend the extra money yet since they are fairly pricey.

Feel free to chime in and give advice.

Cheers
Jo
 
It should not affect ride quality unless you are bottoming out/hitting the bumpstops. If bumps are a major issue where you're starting to skip around, you should probably look at a lower spring rate and revalving the shock to that rate. If you are not having these issues at the track but only on the street, that's just a compromise you have to make. You can't have something that conforms well in all situations.
 
This car doesn't like to be really low on soft springs.

By "upgrading" to swift springs, I'm guessing you already gave a coilover kit on the car. Changing spring manufacturers won't make much of a difference (if any at all) if you don't bump the rate. You also have to be wary of your strut/shock combination and whether the valving you have in it already can handle a spring rate increase.

So...

What ride heights are you running now measured at the fenders/ horizontal at the center line of the wheel?

What are your current spring rates and manufacturer?

What is the current strut/shock you are running?

It's tough to remember everyone's specs from their build threads.
 
I am running fortune auto coil overs. Apperntly they can take a spring change without needing to be revavled due to their design. Supposedly can take a few KGS spring change with no Hassel.
Only reason I ask about Swift springs is that they develop their springs with comfort and performance in mind and have a really good reputation. But sadly I do not know of anyone who has compared them to regular springs and taking the jump is not cheap.
Spring rates are 8k fronts and 6 k rears. Standard fortune auto springs
Height s from the centre of wheel to fender is
32.2cm 32cm
33.2cm 33.2cm
Give or take a few mm.

Sorry that everything is in metric


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Also been informed the the coil overs are only base height adjustable. Which from what I am told will not help stroke if I lenthen it

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Yea unfortunately on their site they only have a generic picture which shows having an adjustable shock length on the front. Also as far as your height, it doesn't seem too bad compared to others, but that is basing it off what I am used to which is having the stock top hat and bump stop. Most likely their coilovers won't have as much travel and a stiffer bump stop, which is what I have seen on most setups like that on a number of cars.

If I was you, I would try to check how much shock travel you have when the car is on the ground, or on a lift where the suspension is loaded. That is the real issue, and since you have those coilovers it is specific to the design of those, again I mainly know the numbers for when using the stock top hat or using the bilstein coilovers. You should have at least 075" (19mm) of travel, but knowing your bumps stop is probably hard I would say 1" (25mm) or more would be good. Also check the rear as well. The rear can cause an issue with ride and handling as well. Not so much with braking though. Also don't be surprised if you only have a small amount of travel. It isn't uncommon with a lot of aftermarket setups.

If anything take a white marker and put a line on the shock body and the spring height adjuster to mark your current height setting. Then raise the car about 1/2" (13mm) or just count a number of turns of the adjuster since you have it marked, but try to get at least 1/2" higher. Then take it out for a drive to see the difference. If anything you can easily get it lined up again back to what it was since you marked the clocking of the adjuster before you made changes. I have done this a bunch on many cars to see how it does.

Also I am a huge fan of having plenty of travel on your suspension. To me it is the #1 thing to tune for since it effects so many things.
 
I currently am running the same setup with 8k swift springs in the front and their standard 8k in the rear. I have no issues over gradual elevation changes but I do have the same issues over large potholes or very uneven terrain. What are your rebound damping settings at? I find if I go over 5/24 on the street I skip all over the place.
 
Here are the pics of the shocks if anyone was interested

uploadfromtaptalk1457983265761.jpguploadfromtaptalk1457983272767.jpg

That's a good idea to mark the shock and try a higher height.
The rear is probably the biggest culprit though. But will try and see if adjustments on thr front help
On the track I don't mind it, and put them on 12 and 8 clicks but on long journeys or country roads you get sick of the ride after a hour or so on full soft




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I have never been brave enough to try more than 3 clicks on the street Hli. It makes such a massive difference and the interior starts rattling like you would not beleive hahahha.

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Unless you go with a lower spring rate and valve to match, I don't think what you are experiencing is going to improve. Raising the ride height is not going to give you any more travel. You will get more compliance on the street with something like 4k springs front and rear and that will solve all of your issues with the car getting unsettled on the street. Alternatively you can try unlinking the front sway bar and that might help a little to increase front compliance over bumps.
 
OK so after seeing the pictures it looks like your shocks are length adjustable so I would check to see how much travel you have, and then see where you stand when at your ride height. You should be in the middle, or a little less compression to the bump stop then droop to where they are all the way down. I would be curious how much travel you have on those.

Also hli brings up a good point. I haven't been in any car with fortune 500 coilovers, but there is a good chance they aren't as digressive as they could be so it would feel good on track, but you have to soften them to get a decent ride on the street. My IS300 is that way with the coilovers on it.

Also when I say raising the car to get travel I meant using the lower spring mount to get more compression before hitting the bumpstop. That was when I thought they were not height adjustable. Having more compression travel before the bump stops can make a huge difference in the ride and handling. Pretty much all of my cars I have tuned the height and bump stops to get the ride and handling right. Takes time, but worth it in the end. Well I haven't messed with the Tahoe actually.
 
Thanks for the help guys. Much appreciated. Will try those recommendations first.
Funny thing is with the fortune autos is that quite a few of my friends have them with crazy high spring rates on their cars and they are so comfortable on street and great on track that I was stunned. Their cars are heavier also which does make a difference. They even run half stiffness on street and it takes every small and large bump like a boat. It is what sold me on them instead of the bilstein PSS kitt. Hence why I feel it is my set up that needs adjustment.
Will post up the measurements this week when I get some time.

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What spring rate are they running and how heavy are their cars? 8k/450lb springs are pretty aggressive for a 2300lb car, whereas 8k springs on something like a 3500lb evo would be probably only a little stiffer than stock. Also from that picture, your rear shocks are set pretty damn low. Are you sure your rears are not set with some crazy pre-load? I have about 1/4" preload both front and back.

@Zach, spot on. The fortune 500s are length adjustable and have a decent amount of travel. I believe its somewhere around the vicinity of 2" from loaded to full droop but I haven't measured exactly.
 
The pics are from when I took them fresh out of the box. We adjusted them after I took that photo and changed them another time both front and rear. Front was raised and made handling and ride better while the rear we shortened the shock to full captive of the spring and it seemed a tad bit stiffer but more controlled than previously.
Their cars are BMW 325i 14k springs all round, corolla aportivo 7k all round and ep3r with 12k

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2" isn't that much travel at all for our cars if that is what it is. As an example, I have 525lbs front and 400lbs rear springs no front sway bar and our rear bar and I am running RE-71R tires. From the trackday this weekend I have recorded 1.2G in the corners. With how my car is set up I need 1" of compression on the outside and 1" of droop on the inside to hit 1.2G. Which doesn't leave much room for any bumps or curbs to not unsettle the car. One of the hard transitions on the track there is also a compression and I was spiking at 1.6G on the transition. Now don't get me wrong I only have about an inch before I hit my bumpstops, but my bumpstops are about 2.5" long and are a soft foam so they are soft and progressive. Most coilovers like those usually have a smaller and harder urethane bump stop. My IS300 is a great example. In the rear of that car I had to actually use spring compressors in order to compress the spring enough to move the adjuster to where I was in the middle of the shock travel with the weight of the car on them. Made a huge difference though. I then adjusted the shock length to get it back to the correct ride height. So I had a bunch of preload on the spring, but it was what was needed to get the car to have equal compression and rebound travel.

In the end, it is this kind of tweaking which makes it all worth it, and it is where a lot of people don't pay attention. Woot Woot if you have a chance with the wheel off try to move the dust boot up and see what the bump stop is like. I am guessing it is just a small rubber bumper about 1" long. It can be made to work, and you have the adjustments to do it which is great. Just takes time to get it all sorted out. Luckily the rears are easy to remove and work on so that might be the better place to start. I look forward to seeing what you come up with and how it is setup so we can get you sorted out better.

Sad, but I really enjoy this kinda thing.
 
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