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Thread: 2.5L Oil level fluctuation

  1. #46
    Registered Member Sekmor's Avatar

    2014.5 CX-5 GS FWD 2.5L

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    FWIW.....I'm the one who started this thread. If you read post #1, I did do an oil analysis that show around +10% fuel. The dealer was fishing and tried all kinds of things and ended up changing out the HP fuel pump. They said it was leaking internally. At the time it seemed to stop fluctuating, but then it also got warmer outside.
    Did oil change in the summer and everything looked ok. NO level fluctuations for summer driving. Sent another sample out but the company did not provide fuel dilution numbers, said it was not an issue so they don't list them (don't ask why). Did another oil change just before winter and oil looked great, nice gold color, no level changes for 8000 kms, all warm weather driving, so didn't bother with oil test.
    But I checked the other day, and it was a good 1/4" above the full mark. All levels are always checked on cold engine, sitting in garage all night. We went on a 300 km road trip, and noticed it dropped almost to the full mark. So after the last couple months of cold weather, slow driving around town on snow/icy roads, the fuel problem is back. Since Mazda says this is perfectly normal, I just won't check the oil any more, it only aggravates me. This "new" car feel left a long time ago even though we only have 45,000 kms.
    Sorry but in all the vehicles I have owned over the last 30 years, this is the first time I have seen this issue, so much for technology. Add the fact my dealer doesn't know how to change a spark plug in a lawn mower doesn't help either (oops sorry off track there).
    Anyways, I have a list going for warranty repairs so I'll have to mention that TSB, maybe that will help.

  2. #47
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    CX5 2.5L AWD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekmor View Post
    FWIW.....I'm the one who started this thread. If you read post #1, I did do an oil analysis that show around +10% fuel. The dealer was fishing and tried all kinds of things and ended up changing out the HP fuel pump. They said it was leaking internally. At the time it seemed to stop fluctuating, but then it also got warmer outside.
    Did oil change in the summer and everything looked ok. NO level fluctuations for summer driving. Sent another sample out but the company did not provide fuel dilution numbers, said it was not an issue so they don't list them (don't ask why). Did another oil change just before winter and oil looked great, nice gold color, no level changes for 8000 kms, all warm weather driving, so didn't bother with oil test.
    But I checked the other day, and it was a good 1/4" above the full mark. All levels are always checked on cold engine, sitting in garage all night. We went on a 300 km road trip, and noticed it dropped almost to the full mark. So after the last couple months of cold weather, slow driving around town on snow/icy roads, the fuel problem is back. Since Mazda says this is perfectly normal, I just won't check the oil any more, it only aggravates me. This "new" car feel left a long time ago even though we only have 45,000 kms.
    Sorry but in all the vehicles I have owned over the last 30 years, this is the first time I have seen this issue, so much for technology. Add the fact my dealer doesn't know how to change a spark plug in a lawn mower doesn't help either (oops sorry off track there).
    Anyways, I have a list going for warranty repairs so I'll have to mention that TSB, maybe that will help.
    That sucks.

    That said, my 2015 has about 56K miles on it now, and still feels new when I vacuum and wash it. What about yours "does not feel new"? Now, I will admit, I did not get my CX-5 new, but owned a new 370Z and new C6 Z06, so I know what "new" feels like in a vehicle.

    My CX-5 still shifts snappily, does not rattle, etc. and to me, that is "new". No appreciable interior wear.

    I will have to keep an eye on my engine oil levels, and may send some off for analysis this next oil change (dealer used their oil, I prefer a different oil, so I'll wait and do the UOA on MY oil, since the dealer thing was a mistake and likely won't happen again, so the numbers won't mean much).

  3. #48
    Registrierte Benutzer Chris_Top_Her's Avatar
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    '15 CX-5 Miata GT AWD w/Tech 2.5L

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    My oil catch can gets a good dose of blow by. When I change my oil next week I'll dump into a container ( about 5ooo miles ran)

  4. #49
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    2013 mazda cx5

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    Hi Mazdman,

    garycar here. Please let me know of any updates with your rising oil levels in cold weather. Some people have said that I am imagining this and that it is not fuel, but I know its fuel. Unfortunately, but good to know that there are others who have the same issue. If you discover a solution, I would like to know. It is winter here in Brandon, Manitoba now and I check my oil daily and every day it rises just a little because of the short trips in town. Fortunately I have had some longer trips to go on recently which burned off the fuel and brought the level down. I also put a cover on the front of my CX and it seems to help. I guess the motor heats up quicker and burns off the fuel. I still have yet to find a solution to the problem, and this is the third winter. When the weather warms up, there will be no problem, but that is months away. On it goes. All the best to you.

  5. #50
    i-ACTIV AWD Aficionado Kedis82ZE8's Avatar
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    garycar: You might try running Premium for a while.. some have stated this basically eliminates issue. I never travel less than 25 miles from a cold start so haven't noticed any noticeable level anomalies on mine. There was a small amount of fuel in my Blackstone test even though I don't drive short distances so it might be a problem if I was driving less than 10 miles per day.
    NB1 Navigation Updates (990 NEW-5/2017) / Why Mazda moly oil? - Mazda TSBs / My Misc add-ons / Mazda owners manuals / SkyActiv Oil Analysis Thread

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  6. #51
    Registered Member Conrad 16.5's Avatar

    2016.5 CX-5 Grand Touring AWD titanium/black

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedis82ZE8 View Post
    garycar: You might try running Premium for a while.. some have stated this basically eliminates issue. I never travel less than 25 miles from a cold start so haven't noticed any noticeable level anomalies on mine. There was a small amount of fuel in my Blackstone test even though I don't drive short distances so it might be a problem if I was driving less than 10 miles per day.
    Some say to use premium in the summer because of the warmer temps now there's a reason to use it in the winter. Too bad the price differential between 87 and 93 octanes is so high these days. It used to be only ten cents between 87 and 89. Then another ten cents between 89 and 93. I guess that premium costs more to make these days eh? Yeah, right....
    "Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn

  7. #52
    94MAZDAFD3S

    2015 CX5 GT AWD Liquid Silver Metallic/Black Leather

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    Hi garycar,

    I'll keep you updated. I had the PCM & TCM flashed to the latest versions. Haven't driven it much since then, probably about three hundred or so shortish, cold miles by the wife, but the level has seemed to stabilize just below the full mark. I'll have to check it again and again for a while, to be able to confidently say it made a difference.

    As far as people saying premium will fix it, that's the worse thing you could do and would make our existing problem even greater and cause more problems like excess carbon on the back side of the valves and in the intake.

    Octane is a measure of the resistance to detonation in the combustion chamber. It's harder to fully combust and spread an even flame front across the face of the piston, so the combustion event occurs smoothly and at the right time.

    I own many high hp turbo sports cars and tune them to take advantage of high Octane and make more BHP.

    Our cars are NOT going to benefit from 93 or 91, because they were designed and tuned for 87. I occasionally have run 89 and have seen no difference in performance or fuel economy.

    I know we have a knock sensor, but if the engine isn't tuned to use 91 or 93, we get incomplete combustion and tons of carbon buildup. I have seen port fuel injected cars that weren't designed for premium, carbon up the valves so bad, that it would get cold misfires, etc in as little as 3000 miles. Our DI engines would be even worse.

    It is more important to run different brands of 87 on a regular basis, because the additive packages are different and will help keep the wetted fuel parts cleaner.

    All DI engines have a intake/valve carbon problem and it is exacerbated by the high blow by and crankcase crud that is dumped on the backs of the valves by the PCV system. That is why Toyota, Subaru and others are now combining port injection with direct. To keep the valves clean.

    Our situation sucks, but I'm determined to find a fix. Those that chime in and say we're nuts or don't know what we're talking about, can keep their traps shut if they don't have anything constructive to add.

    I was glad I found you! I was like WTF!!!

    Happy new year and to a fix in 2017!

  8. #53
    Registered Member

    Red 2016 CX-5 GT Teck Isense

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    If you want to reduce the problem, cover about 3/4 of the air flow through the radiator to allow the engine to heat up faster during the cold weather time. This is what the big diesel trucks do with either a radiator cover or shutters to control the airflow.

  9. #54
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    CX5 2.5L AWD

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    Well, I've been running 87. I have 56K miles. Car runs great.

  10. #55
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    My wife's CX-5 is seeing lots of short trips, and indeed the oil level goes up. Used oil analysis shows fuel dilution, as expected.
    Reading about this I came across the condition that is called Low Speed Pre-Ignition, LSPI. Evidently, this only affects DI engines and is much more detrimental then regular pre-ignition that causes pinging. LSPI can't be detected by the knock sensor, so OEMs are dealing with it by dumping fuel under conditions that MAY cause LSPI, making it impossible to happen. Hence, most of the DI engines have fuel dilution problem, the fuel just burns off during long drives in fully warmed-up engine. No such luck for us short-trippers...

  11. #56
    94MAZDAFD3S

    2015 CX5 GT AWD Liquid Silver Metallic/Black Leather

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    Quote Originally Posted by yugrus View Post
    My wife's CX-5 is seeing lots of short trips, and indeed the oil level goes up. Used oil analysis shows fuel dilution, as expected.
    Reading about this I came across the condition that is called Low Speed Pre-Ignition, LSPI. Evidently, this only affects DI engines and is much more detrimental then regular pre-ignition that causes pinging. LSPI can't be detected by the knock sensor, so OEMs are dealing with it by dumping fuel under conditions that MAY cause LSPI, making it impossible to happen. Hence, most of the DI engines have fuel dilution problem, the fuel just burns off during long drives in fully warmed-up engine. No such luck for us short-trippers...
    Interesting, I'll have to check in to that.
    Any pre-ignition should be and from my tuning experience has been worse in hot conditions, when air is less dense, hotter, etc and knock is more prevalent.
    Engines love cool, dense air, especially turbos.
    I'm a little suspicious about the no knock sensor can detect it part and they just dump fuel in if it might occur. In their obsessive quest for every mpg, I don't think they would blindly go into open loop, dump a bunch of extra fuel and risk cat damage, etc.
    Our problem is during cold weather when knock, PI, etc is least probable, and goes away in hot weather when knock, PI, would be most probable.
    Modern knock sensors are extremely sensitive to very minute inaudible small knock and pinging cycles. If they couldn't detect it on a DI engine, then the 2.5 Sky Active turbo engine would be screwed and it wouldn't have different HP ratings for different octane ratings.
    A knock sensor is based on the piezoelectric effect. If you apply a force/displacement to it, you get a voltage and the inverse is also true. If you apply a voltage to it, you get a high force/small displacement output.
    I've tuned many DI engines with a set of headphones tied into a knock sensor and you can clearly detect the onset of knock, even before a complete knock event occurs in a single crankshaft/eccentric revolution.
    I say eccentric shaft, because the rotary engine is the least tolerant of any engine to any degree of PI, detonation and a single event can wipe out an apex seal, while a piston engine wouldn't be fazed.
    Just my 2 cents.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugrus View Post
    My wife's CX-5 is seeing lots of short trips, and indeed the oil level goes up. Used oil analysis shows fuel dilution, as expected.
    Reading about this I came across the condition that is called Low Speed Pre-Ignition, LSPI. Evidently, this only affects DI engines and is much more detrimental then regular pre-ignition that causes pinging. LSPI can't be detected by the knock sensor, so OEMs are dealing with it by dumping fuel under conditions that MAY cause LSPI, making it impossible to happen. Hence, most of the DI engines have fuel dilution problem, the fuel just burns off during long drives in fully warmed-up engine. No such luck for us short-trippers...
    The hole keeps getting deeper and more stuff keeps coming out about this.. Click on the lubrication tab on this link and see what it says about moly oils
    https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp

  13. #58
    94MAZDAFD3S

    2015 CX5 GT AWD Liquid Silver Metallic/Black Leather

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    That's good reading. Thanks for the info. However, it appears that the LSPI, GF-6 oils, papers, etc are geared more toward forced induction applications, where I'd expect and not NA applications like non-diesel CX-5's. Not saying it doesn't apply, just geared more toward higher combustion pressures and temps.

    That being said, it is interesting that calcium promotes LSPI and molybdenum inhibits it.

    I've always used M1 0W20 EP since day one. Have to head over to BITOG, etc and see the comparison of the M1 & Mazda moly additive packages.

    Anyone experiencing this using the Mazda moly oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by madar View Post
    The hole keeps getting deeper and more stuff keeps coming out about this.. Click on the lubrication tab on this link and see what it says about moly oils
    https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
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  14. #59
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
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    Arrow 2.5L Oil level fluctuation

    Quote Originally Posted by madar View Post
    The hole keeps getting deeper and more stuff keeps coming out about this.. Click on the lubrication tab on this link and see what it says about moly oils
    https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
    "Molybdenum compounds, for example, not only provide frictional benefits, but also have been shown to decrease LSPI when used at high levels."

    I guess this's part of reason why Mazda recommends Mazda Moly oil. Our 2016 CX-5 has been using Mazda Moly oil since new, and it's mainly for wife's daily local commute with 10 miles one way to work. I have only noticed some oil consumption issue, not oil raising issue.

  15. #60
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    Another short reference to GDI, LSPI and overfueling
    http://passenger.lubrizoladditives36...-engines-lspi/

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