Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 211

Thread: Change automatic transmission fluid?

  1. #16
    i-ACTIV AWD Aficionado Kedis82ZE8's Avatar
    Donated: $25

    '15 CX-5 GT AWD w/tech

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,620
    Blog Entries
    8
    IMO... nothing wrong with a drain an refill on a vehicle you know the "full" service life on. A used vehicle..... that is another matter but I don't recommend the full flushes either.

    This formula has always worked for me.
    '15 CX-5 GT 2.5L w/tech package - Liquid Silver Metallic (04/2014 build-07/2014 delivery) - 45K Miles

  2. #17
    Registered Member CX-5um's Avatar

    13' CX-5 and 16' Mazda6 both Touring w/Tech/Bose

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    2,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    I disagree. I know people with vehicles that have transmissions which have gone hundreds of thousands of miles without fluid changes. Yet the only 3 vehicles I've owned with automatics that got transmission fluid changes, each and every one had issues afterward, 2 of which ended up in complete failure, and 1 just in driveability issues. The highest mileage was 110K, the lowest was around 70K.
    You may disagree with me but I agree with you lol. Here's how:

    Long story short with considerations into BMW's steptronic transmissions. The general rule was to change the tranny fluid before certain "K" miles. I have to admit I forgot exactly the amount 50-60k? Anyways the rule says if you're past a certain "K" miles DO NOT Change the tranny fluid because doing so will cause more harm than good. With harm I mean complete tranny failure harm. BTW, VW's DSG transmissions requires fluid flush/changes otherwise warranty can be voided.

    Long story shorter: I'm replacing fluid aprox every 40k miles (40/80/120) via drain fill for both our newly owned Mazdas. I would think twice and research further before replacing transmission fluid for the first time on a car nearing high mileage. In BMW's case, transmission fluid at say 100k miles has valuable metal shavings in it that changing it out for new fluid would cause failure. That problem is avoided by just leaving the fluid alone or an earlier and then scheduled fluid changes which is what I'm doing.

    Interestingly, I've been turned down by at least 4 shops (3 tranny shops) for wanting to flush/fill my BMW's auto transmission. Their first question was "what is the mileage". Their answers, they do not want to be held responsible for costly damage.
    Last edited by CX-5um; 01-18-2016 at 11:25 AM.

  3. #18
    MoMo MikeM.'s Avatar

    2013 Mazda CX-5 Touring AWD 2.0L

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NW Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,971
    Quote Originally Posted by CX-5um View Post
    In BMW's case, transmission fluid at say 100k miles has valuable metal shavings in it that changing it out for new fluid would cause failure. That problem is avoided by just leaving the fluid alone or an earlier and then scheduled fluid changes which is what I'm doing.
    I still don't have an opinion on changing transmission fluids because I've seen so much conflicting info and I simply don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other.

    But I will say your explanation above makes little sense. If the metal shavings at 100K miles are so "valuable" then wouldn't you want them to build up (and thus avoid changing it at all, even very early)?

  4. #19
    i-ACTIV AWD Aficionado Kedis82ZE8's Avatar
    Donated: $25

    '15 CX-5 GT AWD w/tech

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,620
    Blog Entries
    8
    I think this happens more often than it should-----> Wrong AT fluid is used during the service

    This talks about flushing which I am opposed to but a few thoughts nonetheless

    http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/bf100456.htm

    "Automatic Transmission Fluid Flush

    Copyright AA1Car
    Adapted from an article written by Larry Carley for Brake & Front End magazine

    Flushing can prolong the life of a transmission, provided it is done fairly regularly, say every 30,000 to 50,000 miles. But if the transmission on a high mileage vehicle (say over 100,000 miles) has never been flushed, it is probably best to NOT flush the fluid. Here's why: The detergents in new ATF may loosen up accumulated crud inside the transmission, which could cause some problems within a few thousand miles or so after the flush. So if your fluid has never been changed and your vehicle has a lot of miles on it, it is probably best to just leave the fluid alone and top off the fluid level as needed if it is low."
    Sigs are visible only in your first post on a page. To change your thread display preferences, click here and enable 'Always Show Signature'.

  5. #20
    Registered Member CX-5um's Avatar

    13' CX-5 and 16' Mazda6 both Touring w/Tech/Bose

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    2,766
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM. View Post
    I still don't have an opinion on changing transmission fluids because I've seen so much conflicting info and I simply don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other.

    But I will say your explanation above makes little sense. If the metal shavings at 100K miles are so "valuable" then wouldn't you want them to build up (and thus avoid changing it at all, even very early)?
    I first came across the "metal shavings" explanation within a BMW forum I used to frequent. I thought that was a bit outrageous statement myself but reminded myself that these guys had much more knowledge than I had of the matter. Then I shopped around calling shops in the San Diego area where I lived at the time. Not one shop, not one BMW dealer was willing to take my money and change my BMW tranny fluid. The #1 question they ask me is what is my mileage. (It was around 90k miles). The #1 explanation they provided was that the metal shavings in the fluid was really important. They countered that had my mileage had been lower (40-60k miles) they would've serviced my BMW. (BMW dealerships do not do it at all).

    To answer your question more specifically is a challenge. From my research I recall that an oil analysis of the BMW tranny fluid at 70k miles indicated the oil had a very different composition from new. This may have then accelerated the accumulation of metal shavings. This may explain why it is important to change the fluid prior to reaching this point. The following is from a Bavarian Auto blog. It mirrors the more technical explanation given to me by shops.

    The only potential problem would have been with a transmission that was not serviced properly in the first place, which then has its fluid changed at something north of 100,000 miles. There is a possibility that crud that has built up in the valve body may be softened and dislodged …. only to jam another area of the valve body. Additionally, we feel (after seeing some of these transmissions, internally) that in cases where the fluid was never serviced, the old thick fluid that is laden with wear particles, is actually helping keep the worn-out clutch packs operating by sort-of filling in the voided area between the clutch plates (the fluid in these transmissions looks like a non-synthetic oil that would have been drained from a 300,000 mile old engine, after being run in the engine for 20,000 miles …. with sand added to it). Replacing with fresh fluid just makes the transmission act as it normally would with that much wear. If the transmission were in a state of wear that would cause it to start slipping shortly after a fluid change, it would likely not have lasted much longer anyway. Of course, the wear would not be to this point if the fluid had been changed regularly in the first place!

    So basically this is what I got.

    1. The non-serviced high mileage transmission oil may develop crud.
    2. The non-serviced high mileage transmission oil is thicker and laden with wear particles (shavings).
    3. The transmission parts have deteriorated and actually rely on said crud and metal shaving laden oil to fill voids and to operate.
    4. Changing the metal shaving laden fluid and removing crud allows the transmission to operate as it should WITH wear. No matter what that wear is present.
    5. The transmission now with new fluid will simply act like a transmission with wear would. Depending on the level of wear, the transmission will either operate poorly or possibly fail despite having new fluid.

    Options: A. Leave transmission oil alone and run till it stops working. It may last you another 1k miles or may last you another 100k miles. Who knows? Chances are you'll sell the car and it would be the next guy's problem. B. Get a new transmission. Those shops were right in telling me option A. Option B was a last resort well unless selling the car. There's option Z which is to service the tranny fluid on a set schedule and avoid this whole mess.
    Last edited by CX-5um; 01-19-2016 at 10:52 AM.

  6. #21
    Registered Member

    CX5 2.5L AWD

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    South-Central US
    Posts
    6,224
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM. View Post
    I still don't have an opinion on changing transmission fluids because I've seen so much conflicting info and I simply don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other.

    But I will say your explanation above makes little sense. If the metal shavings at 100K miles are so "valuable" then wouldn't you want them to build up (and thus avoid changing it at all, even very early)?
    Whatever his explanation, it's legit in cause--->effect. You change fluid at 100K miles, and you would have saved time and money just dropping the trans and replacing it. Because now you're going to be doing that, AS WELL, shortly.

  7. #22
    MoMo MikeM.'s Avatar

    2013 Mazda CX-5 Touring AWD 2.0L

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NW Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,971
    Quote Originally Posted by CX-5um View Post

    So basically this is what I got.

    1. The non-serviced high mileage transmission oil may develop crud.
    2. The non-serviced high mileage transmission oil is thicker and laden with wear particles (shavings).
    3. The transmission parts have deteriorated and actually rely on said crud and metal shaving laden oil to fill voids and to operate.
    4. Changing the metal shaving laden fluid and removing crud allows the transmission to operate as it should WITH wear. No matter what that wear is present.
    5. The transmission now with new fluid will simply act like a transmission with wear would. Depending on the level of wear, the transmission will either operate poorly or possibly fail despite having new fluid.
    Interesting explanation. By this line of reasoning, it would be beneficial to change the fluid often early in the transmissions life but, at some unknown point, stop changing the fluid so the old fluid can extend the life of the nearly worn out transmission.
    Sigs are visible only in your first post on a page. To change your thread display preferences, click here and enable 'Always Show Signature'.

  8. #23
    Registered Member CX-5um's Avatar

    13' CX-5 and 16' Mazda6 both Touring w/Tech/Bose

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    2,766
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM. View Post
    Interesting explanation. By this line of reasoning, it would be beneficial to change the fluid often early in the transmissions life but, at some unknown point, stop changing the fluid so the old fluid can extend the life of the nearly worn out transmission.
    The theory is a scheduled transmission service helps minimize transmission wear depending on the lifespan of the actual fluid's integrity. Wear will always occur so the goal is to minimize that wear by changing the fluid. Something like an every 40k schedule. You don't have to stop and should be able to extend it to like 200k miles+ because the amount of protection provided by periodic fluid changes allows for less wear as compared to 100k miles with no fluid change at all which at that point is a crap shoot depending on the existing wear. If the wear isn't too bad then the 100k initial fluid change is good....but if there was significant wear then don't be surprised if the transmission fails shortly thereafter. I think a good (and serviced) transmission should last into 200k miles. We here folks all the time with 200k miles on original non-serviced transmissions. But then what type of transmission is it? Is it a real simple design? The Skyactiv transmission from what I read is complex and has multi-plates that act like a dual clutch transmission . More complex transmissions from what I read require servicing.
    Last edited by CX-5um; 01-19-2016 at 12:28 PM.

  9. #24
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
    Donated: $8

    2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Plano, Texas, USA
    Posts
    6,943

    Arrow Change automatic transmission fluid?

    This:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedis82ZE8 View Post
    I think this happens more often than it should-----> Wrong AT fluid is used during the service
    plus these:
    Quote Originally Posted by CX-5um View Post
    1. The non-serviced high mileage transmission oil may develop crud.
    2. The non-serviced high mileage transmission oil is thicker and laden with wear particles (shavings).
    3. The transmission parts have deteriorated and actually rely on said crud and metal shaving laden oil to fill voids and to operate.
    4. Changing the metal shaving laden fluid and removing crud allows the transmission to operate as it should WITH wear. No matter what that wear is present.
    5. The transmission now with new fluid will simply act like a transmission with wear would. Depending on the level of wear, the transmission will either operate poorly or possibly fail despite having new fluid.
    should be the proper guidelines for automatic transmission fluid change. But calling "transmission oil" is something I don't get used to...

    BTW, I was totally surprised to find out the 5-speed Steptronic automatic transmission in our 2000 BMW 528i was actually made by GM.

    The other funny thing I'd found out was VW's OEM automatic transmission fluid has 2 years of shelf life stamped on the bottle. In the mean time they claimed their auto tranny has life-time fluid and fluid change is not needed!

  10. #25
    Registered Member CX-5um's Avatar

    13' CX-5 and 16' Mazda6 both Touring w/Tech/Bose

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    2,766
    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    This:
    plus these:
    should be the proper guidelines for automatic transmission fluid change. But calling "transmission oil" is something I don't get used to...

    BTW, I was totally surprised to find out the 5-speed Steptronic automatic transmission in our 2000 BMW 528i was actually made by GM.

    The other funny thing I'd found out was VW's OEM automatic transmission fluid has 2 years of shelf life stamped on the bottle. In the mean time they claimed their auto tranny has life-time fluid and fluid change is not needed!
    Yeah BMW at that time used 2 or 3 different transmission suppliers. GM and I think ZF. Can't recall the third.

    VW had a recall on their DSG transmission a few years ago. They offered 100k warranties on repaired ones with the condition that owners have transmission fluids changed every 40k miles otherwise warranty won't be honored. This is not your typical DIY job nor cheap. $400-$500 at dealer, about $250 in DIY parts/tools. Mazda's transmission fluid drain/fill or heck even flush is much much cheaper. A drain/fill is an easier DIY job.

  11. #26
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
    Donated: $8

    2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Plano, Texas, USA
    Posts
    6,943

    Arrow Change automatic transmission fluid?

    Quote Originally Posted by CX-5um View Post
    Mazda's transmission fluid drain/fill or heck even flush is much much cheaper. A drain/fill is an easier DIY job.
    I thought Mazda OEM ATF is pretty expensive too?

  12. #27
    i-ACTIV AWD Aficionado Kedis82ZE8's Avatar
    Donated: $25

    '15 CX-5 GT AWD w/tech

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,620
    Blog Entries
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    I thought Mazda OEM ATF is pretty expensive too?
    I think around $15/quart and a drain/fill is around 5-6 quarts.
    Sigs are visible only in your first post on a page. To change your thread display preferences, click here and enable 'Always Show Signature'.

  13. #28
    Registered Member 4G63T's Avatar

    2018 Tiguan SE AWD Mitsubishi Evolution 2003

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    156
    Doesn't make sense how metal shavings is good for the transmission on those BMWs . I'm thinking something else is a culprit of changing the oil at high mileage causing the transmission to fail .

    Hypothesis :
    Maybe as time and repeated heat cycles and changing weather and wear particles the oil viscosity gets thicker ? As mileage gets higher with the oil, the gears begin to wear more then they should and the tolerance is not as tight as it was , requiring thicker oil . And when people put in the "correct" oil viscosity , at that high mileage the required viscosity is too thin for it now .

    But when changing the oil early consistently , the gears don't wear as fast or as much . So the recommended oil viscosity is sufficient for the still "tight" gear tolerances .


    Oil over time, changing weather cycles, normal friction heat cycles, water condensation mixing etc... loses it's properties to lubricate and protect etc... Gear Oil does not get better over time and usage.

    What you guys think ?
    Last edited by 4G63T; 01-20-2016 at 09:40 PM.

  14. #29
    Registered Member

    CX5 2.5L AWD

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    South-Central US
    Posts
    6,224
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedis82ZE8 View Post
    I think around $15/quart and a drain/fill is around 5-6 quarts.
    $15 a quart, and 12 quarts. This is what the Mazda dealership quoted me. $312, IIRC. I'm going to have it done here in a few weeks because it's still under warranty, and "why not?" If it doesn't kill it, it will help it. If it kills it, I get a new one for free, soo....

  15. #30
    Registered Member

    CX5 2.5L AWD

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    South-Central US
    Posts
    6,224
    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63T View Post
    Doesn't make sense how metal shavings is good for the transmission on those BMWs . I'm thinking something else is a culprit of changing the oil at high mileage causing the transmission to fail .

    Hypothesis :
    Maybe as time and repeated heat cycles and changing weather and wear particles the oil viscosity gets thicker ? As mileage gets higher with the oil, the gears begin to wear more then they should and the tolerance is not as tight as it was , requiring thicker oil . And when people put in the "correct" oil viscosity , at that high mileage the required viscosity is too thin for it now .

    But when changing the oil early consistently , the gears don't wear as fast or as much . So the recommended oil viscosity is sufficient for the still "tight" gear tolerances .


    Oil over time, changing weather cycles, normal friction heat cycles, water condensation mixing etc... loses it's properties to lubricate and protect etc... Gear Oil does not get better over time and usage.

    What you guys think ?
    The cause doesn't much matter, IMO. The results do. The results are a dead tranny, and I don't mean Jenner.

    However, I do think it's more about friction coefficients and clutch bands and fluid viscosity and detergents and valve-body passages and sludge...

Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Automatic Transmission Fluid - Can you change it?
    By brilloAMD in forum CX-5 Engine & Transmission
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 06-08-2015, 09:42 AM
  2. Regarding automatic transmission fluid.
    By markuszoom5 in forum Mazda5 Lounge
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-06-2013, 07:36 PM
  3. Automatic Transmission Fluid
    By joshritger in forum Mazda3 Engine & Transmission
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-10-2009, 12:31 PM
  4. Fluid capacity [automatic transmission]
    By Vozac in forum Other Mazdas
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-28-2005, 01:54 AM
  5. Automatic Transmission fluid??????????? S
    By catchme31 in forum Protege5
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-13-2005, 09:24 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •