Depending on which side:
IF JEEP - then use the spinal cord to lock up the side.
IF CX-5 - rub the affected ear real good.
Does CX-5 always start in AWD?
- Thread starter wbw
- Start date
IF JEEP - then use the spinal cord to lock up the side.
IF CX-5 - rub the affected ear real good.
On a serious note - that moron's approach to get out of the snow, it's actually very common where I live, in NJ/NY and the snow trucks dumping snow. So - let's take a step back and may I ask? If in such situations and you happen to have a CX-5 AWD what should be the correct approach to get out the snow? Assume all-weather tires since that's what most seem to have...
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- 2019 CX-5 Sig
Get shovel, dig out, drive off.
All weather tires are a new class of tires between snow tires and all-season. The vast majority of drivers are on all-season (not all weather).
Regardless of what kind of tires you have, the answer to your question doesn't really change (although the chances of needing an answer in the first place is many times lower with winter tires).
The Jeep driver's primary mistake (beyond crappy tires) is his apparent belief that a heavy right foot and persistence is the key. His second line of attack is lacing his incantations heavily with profanity. Neither of these strategies have ever panned out for me so, for the previous 30 plus years I have remained cool as a cucumber.
The first line of defense is not to get stuck in the first place. This means is that at the first sign of potential trouble you avoid the temptation to power out. You might get out but, if you don't, you WILL make it worse. So don't try. The sooner you realize you MAY be stuck, the better. Apply the brake, exit the vehicle and survey the situation behind/in front of each tire. Knowledge is power. Gravity is your friend. I carry a small mountaineer's shovel in my cargo area all winter (only weighs 18 ounces). The flatter the shovel, the better. Deep pocket shovels compromise their ability to get in tight to the wheel. Remove one scoop of snow from both sides of each tire. This takes about 30 seconds total. You have already surveyed the situation so get back in the vehicle, turn your wheels in the direction favored by gravity apply power as gently as possible and, if you followed the previously steps properly, 99% of the time you will drive right out. If not, you broke the #1 rule (don't get stuck in the first place). In three years of driving the CX-5 in challenging, steep, slippery and rutted conditions, I've never been stuck.
The #1 rule has ALMOST nothing to do with which AWD system your vehicle has and EVERYTHING to do with tires (protestations from some snow neophytes nonetheless) and winter driving skills of the driver. These skills have nothing to do with summer driving skills (although they are closely related to off-road skills). The most common error I see (both before someone get's stuck as well as after they are stuck) is people ignore gravity. Look at which way the crown of the road slopes and which tire may be stuck in a hole.
Specific to the Jeep video, his primary problem (besides crappy tires and poor driving skills) is the road has a pretty steep crown (he's in a gutter). His problem is not the AWD system of the Jeep. It's probably about equal to the excellent CX-5 AWD system in this particular situation (however, for driving 40 mph on a curvy, icy road with a steep crown, the CX-5 system is considerably superior). Obviously, the best way out of there is forward. As soon as he realized it wasn't an easy drive out he should have cleared a path that didn't have any snow bumps in the way. There was also deep wet snow in between the tire paths that was pushing against his underbelly (the jeep has about the same ground clearance as a CX-5). Had he cleared such a path, he would have extricated himself on the first go.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
-How do you figure the CX5's awd system is better at anything, assuming he has QD2 in the Jeep?
-The jeep has 20% more ground clearance than a CX5
-locking in the axles changes the entire ECM parameters, and would allow the jeep to crawl out much easier without upsetting traction.
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
Hmm, I wonder if the turbo will make the AWD engage while WOT from a stop and make the car do a wheelie? I wonder how easy it will be to convert the car to FWD after that event?
Oh Grasshopper, I have explained this to you before but maybe you can learn with enough repetition and support.
When driving at moderate speeds on a road coated with glaze ice (which is not uncommon around here), sensitivity, balance and quickness is far more important than brute force. There is never a time when you want 100% of the torque transmitted to a single wheel, the name of the game is to avoid breaking that tenuous traction that keeps your vehicle continuing on it's intended course. While the Jeep AWD is the champ at butte force applications such as rock-crawling, the very strength of the system that gives it it's strength is the same thing that harms it when a light touch is called for. For the same reason I reserve my lighter aftermarket wheels for winter tire use, the CX-5's AWD system works better because it is smaller and lighter and has less internal friction to cause an imbalance in tactile forces to the drive wheels. If you have ever driven a bulky vehicle on glaze ice you know that while it may take longer for a slide to develop, it also is more difficult (takes longer) to regain traction on all four wheels. Furthermore, the CX-5's front wheel bias assists in keeping the vehicle going the same direction that it's pointed. One other thing the CX-5 has going for it is that it's superior driver feedback allows your brain to detect a slide sooner so as to take sooner corrective action.
All of these reasons are additive and the result is that the CX-5 is a far superior driving machine on icy roads. A bigger, more powerful hammer is not the solution to all challenges. And to your repetitive accusations that the CX-5 does not drive all 4 wheels or that it's not a "true" or "real" AWD, all I can say is all those accusations are 100% false. The video produced by Subaru's marketing department proves this by showing all four wheels spinning simultaneously in a slow and controlled manner on the wet polyethylene incline. Granted, in a rock-crawling situation involving high wheel torque, this would not be the case. But it most certainly is the case when traction is scarce such as on ice.
It looks to me like the Jeep in the video I posted is about a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4. If so, the manufacturer lists the ground clearance as 8.6" (vs. 8.5 for the CX-5). I'm not going to quibble over 0.1".
Sorry Grasshopper, that's not how it works. His problem was not that all four tires weren't driven, it's that he had poor tires for the conditions and even poorer driver skills. But I don't expect you to believe me. I don't think our very different opinions on this will ever align unless perhaps you moved to an area with abundant snow and ice and began driving 40 or 50 different vehicles day in/day out on treacherous winter roads. Until then, I can lead a horse to water but it's abundantly clear, I can't make him drink.
Assuming you get enough boost to make it wheelie, I think you would be just as likely to turn it into a downhill only, soap box derby racer.
So Mike, let me get this straight. If stuck, do the shoveling part but more importantly figure out where the gravity will tend to take the car and LIGHTLY try to move against it.
The issue I had when I skidded my Hyundai Santa Fe (FWD) in NJ road was driving at around 20 - 25 mph with reasonable all-season tires the car started to skid while making a wide turn. The fundamental error I made (was told by my friends) was I applied brakes and thus lost all ability to move forward and away while having the wheels turned the other way. Remembering this next time had a skid, did NOT press brakes, released gas and STILL hit a tree. Reason: Geico adjuster told me had all-season tires (NEW) and a AWD now (Jeep Wrangler). So, I guess your point is taken: no matter how good you are or the car, all season tires and ice do NOT go together especially when its ALREADY STARTED TO SKID.
Many here will tell me - well a lot depends on the driver. I 100% agree. I never learnt or drove in snow or ice and facing it 1st. time for the last 8 years, off and on. Frankly till date don't know what exactly someone should be doing if while driving finds the car started to slip.......
1 thing I agree with Unobtanium : It may have been SUPER if Mazda gave NORMAL, SPORT, ICE (SLIPPERY?) and TOW as 4 options. Constantly folks tell me to drive in LOW GEAR when icy.... never really knew why but did it and still kissed the darn tree..
The issue I had when I skidded my Hyundai Santa Fe (FWD) in NJ road was driving at around 20 - 25 mph with reasonable all-season tires the car started to skid while making a wide turn. The fundamental error I made (was told by my friends) was I applied brakes and thus lost all ability to move forward and away while having the wheels turned the other way. Remembering this next time had a skid, did NOT press brakes, released gas and STILL hit a tree. Reason: Geico adjuster told me had all-season tires (NEW) and a AWD now (Jeep Wrangler). So, I guess your point is taken: no matter how good you are or the car, all season tires and ice do NOT go together especially when its ALREADY STARTED TO SKID.
Many here will tell me - well a lot depends on the driver. I 100% agree. I never learnt or drove in snow or ice and facing it 1st. time for the last 8 years, off and on. Frankly till date don't know what exactly someone should be doing if while driving finds the car started to slip.......
1 thing I agree with Unobtanium : It may have been SUPER if Mazda gave NORMAL, SPORT, ICE (SLIPPERY?) and TOW as 4 options. Constantly folks tell me to drive in LOW GEAR when icy.... never really knew why but did it and still kissed the darn tree..
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
So, Mikem, which model grand jeep Cherokee with qd2 did you own or drive?
WANT THIS if I really need : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uIlfqRkyQ
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
lol the sky-d is basically just as powerful as the diesel in that thing.. and gets more mPG
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
If only it worked and could be had in 'Murica!
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- 2022 2.5GT
Defying instinct and not touching the brake in a skid takes a lot of skill and guts. The best thing is to get yourself on a big piece of open ground and play in the snow.
Regarding how the CX-5 would compare with the Jeep dynamically, I suspect they might behave in a similar way to most drivers UNLESS it was snowing and one of them had proper winter tires and the other didn't. Then the odds start to swing.
Regarding how the CX-5 would compare with the Jeep dynamically, I suspect they might behave in a similar way to most drivers UNLESS it was snowing and one of them had proper winter tires and the other didn't. Then the odds start to swing.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
My Jeep did great on ice until I slammed on the brakes (was playing, empty streets). That was the only time I thought "oh...". But accelerating on glare ice was cake. Just floor it. I look forward to seeing how the CX-5 does this winter.
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- 2014 QX70 AWD
Exactly. Next time it snows decently, go find a Walmart, Mall or other big box store and tool around in their empty parking lot. Force the vehicle into slides to learn how to react when this happens in real traffic. Practice is the only way to learn how to drive in inclement weather.
All us kids growing up in Maine do this when we first learn to drive.
What has served me well for 47 years of driving in inclement weather is to go gently on the gas, gently on the brakes. I start braking way earlier than I would on clear pavement and no sudden inputs to the steering wheel. Everything is done gently to keep the car in balance. Braking early also warns the car behind you to slow down.
Now, playing around on an empty parking lot is a different story.
Now, playing around on an empty parking lot is a different story.
Warning, this is a long post but I felt it necessary to briefly cover my ownership experience and describe the conditions in which this experience was gained in addition to a brief discussion of DSTC to more fully appreciate the capabilities of the AWD system.
This is good winter driving advice in general with one important omission, especially when driving around other traffic. It is important that your speed at any given point is commensurate with conditions. This may sound like a no-brainer but managing speed for different route conditions is under-utilized (terrified drivers tend to creep everywhere at agonizingly slow speed while fearless idiots speed everywhere recklessly). The fact is, a sensible speed for any car/tire/driver combination will vary radically depending upon grade, road crown and road condition. The biggest mistake I see is people not checking their speed adequately enough before descending a grade. Even a slight downslope can dramatically lengthen stopping distances on slippery surfaces much more so than when it's bare/dry. Conversely, when ascending, stopping distances are dramatically shorter. Most drivers fail to account for this and prefer to travel everywhere at a similar speed which is just plain illogical.
I'm into my fourth winter using my CX-5 in mountain weather on a regular basis. I have a mountain cabin I visit regularly, particularly when the Pacific storms are rolling in and bringing huge dumps of snow to the North Cascades and the numerous ski areas in the region. These areas regularly get more snow and ice than any ski areas on the rest of the N. American Continent. I am often traveling in the thick of it and would never even consider changing my travel plans to avoid the worst of it (in fact, the actual powder skiing itself is the only thing better than the getting there). Needless to say, I've had plenty of opportunity to test out the DSTC and AWD systems in conditions ranging from deep, fresh powder, heavy cascade concrete, vapor deposited glare ice, 4 foot thick old melted and refrozen spring snowpack on unmaintained Forest Service roads, sloppy granular spring corn snow and everything in between. A good amount of this was on backcountry roads with ZERO other traffic, out of cell range and tens of miles from the nearest help. Much of it was at night on portions of the dead-end state highway that is only maintained during daylight hours and has basically zero traffic in the dark hours. This highway has everything from broad flat sections through the river valley with fast, wide sweepers to steep, narrow and rocky canyon climbs, descents with tight off-camber corners and steep drop-offs. Because it's a dead-end highway that only accesses Federal and State land, there are hours on end with no traffic over a 21 mile stretch into the Heart of the North Cascades. And on a dark quiet night with fresh snow blanketing everything, the lone car that might be approaching can be seen two turns distant from the reflected glow of their headlights. Needless to say, the CX-5 has been put through it's paces in this winter wonderland at speeds exceeding 80 mph around the wide sweepers in the river valley and at more appropriate speeds in the tighter, steeper canyon and switchback areas and in deeper snow conditions.
My first experience in snow/ice with computer controlled DSTC (dynamic stability and traction control) was in 1999 when I purchased a Volvo S80. These systems measure things like rate of yaw, steering wheel angle and wheel speeds and can apply the brake on individual wheels to assist in maintaining control. The computer can control the vehicle in ways in which the most skilled winter rally driver cannot. Have you ever seen a rally car that had individual brake pedals for every wheel and could control them individually within milliseconds of detecting the beginning of a slide? When I purchased the CX-5 I was skeptical that Mazda's DSTC could be as good as Volvo's but I soon learned it was actually a little better. While it's still a good idea to avoid heavy braking and loss of traction, I'm amazed at how effective Mazda's system is and how much improved it was over the Volvo DSTC that I was so familiar with. Mazda's system reacted more quickly and had a finer "granularity" to it. It was less obvious and kicked in sooner in a manner that was more proportional to need. The net effect of these systems is you can rail into slippery corners at speeds far too high to negotiate the corner, initiate your turn and let the individual braking check your speed while simultaneously causing the car to yaw in the same direction as the front wheels are turned. The system is not tuned for winter racing but rather safety. Is it safe to do what I just described? Of course not because you are relying on a system that is designed as a fail-safe to human error and there is no back-up for DSTC. It's not wise to rely on it but I can tell how adept it would be saving an inexperienced driver's bacon in many situations (or an experienced driver surprised by black ice). The same system integrates into the ABS and AWD systems so it functions seamlessly from on the throttle to under heavy braking and everything in-between. But make no mistake - it's not tuned for racing, it's appropriately tuned for occupant safety and keeping the vehicle under control. I haven't seen the aftermarket tuners offering to re-tune these systems for faster corner exits and there are probably at least two good reasons why:
1) There are very few people with necessary skill sets to be able to offer different tunes.
2) The systems were not designed to be relied upon because there is no fail safe should the ECU have a "hiccup" or die.
In terms of AWD performance on snow/ice, yes, it works and works well. All four wheels are driven when on the throttle and the throttle will be automatically modulated lower if 50% of the torque has already been transferred to the rear wheels and your wheels are still spinning. Side/side power transfers (like acceleration with the right wheels on a gravel shoulder and the left wheels on an icy road) are performed by individually braking the spinning wheels. This effectively transfers torque to the wheels with more traction. However, if this difference in applied torque begins to cause the vehicle to yaw in the direction of the more slippery side, the DSTC system will step in and reduce engine power to avoid spinning onto the shoulder. On rare occasions (stuck on steep incline with front wheels on glare ice) you may find yourself in a situation that benefits from the two-footed driving technique. Lightly drag the brakes while applying just enough throttle to overcome brake drag. This will increase torque to the rear wheels.
The net effect of all this is the various systems will transfer torque to the wheels that need it without user intervention over 99% of the time, creating a vehicle that drives very competently on slippery surfaces. Rock crawling is where you will run into limitations imposed by the 50% torque limit on the rear drive wheels, not on icy roads.
I have never owned a 4WD or AWD vehicle, so my advice was coming from that background. Also I don't like to rely on a car's various electrical systems to keep me out of an accident. I also live near Baltimore, so reaching 30 mph would be considered high speed snow driving for me. Far too many cars around me at all times.
