Sorry guys, another awd question.

Ridgerunr

Member
:
Mazda CX-9 GT AWD
I have an 2008 CX9, only have owned it a few months. We just had our first snow last week, and it seemed like the rear wheels would not spin. So i checked and they do not spin , just the fronts. The transfer case is dry, no leaks, and the drive shaft to the rear diff. does turn, going forward, and backward, so im thinking the transfer case is working, could the problem be in the rear diff. Or the coupling device? Or maybe something electronic that controls the rear drive? Any ideas would be helpful, would like awd working in winter.
 
I forgot to mention, the light on the dash lights up and flashes for about 10 seconds, then goes out. Like if the road is wet and I accelerate hard.
 
I have an 2008 CX9, only have owned it a few months. We just had our first snow last week, and it seemed like the rear wheels would not spin. So i checked and they do not spin , just the fronts. The transfer case is dry, no leaks, and the drive shaft to the rear diff. does turn, going forward, and backward, so im thinking the transfer case is working, could the problem be in the rear diff. Or the coupling device? Or maybe something electronic that controls the rear drive? Any ideas would be helpful, would like awd working in winter.

sorry to hear about your problem,

I know you mentioned you can see the drive shaft turning but did you follow this Mazda procedure exactly and sequentially as listed,

per the procedure below, it's a three person job.

DON'T START THE ENGINE!! just turn it to ON position
(this is just to trick the car to engage the electronic control coupling without the engine running)
all four wheels have to be lifted and parking brake applied.

let us know so we can try to help you out, need to rule out a transfer case failure first.

download TSB 03-001/12 link -----> View attachment 211207

Some 2007-2013 Mazda CX-9 (4WD) vehicles may experience front tire spin and/or 4WD/DSC light flashing with no DTCs stored, when driving uphill or taking off from a stop under hard acceleration.

NOTE: Do not turn on the engine during the procedure to avoid accidents/injuries.

The procedure requires three people.

STEP 1. Verify the customer concern.

a. With one person in the vehicle, raise and support the vehicle so that all four wheels are off the ground.

b. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position (engine off).

c. Apply the parking brake to prevent the rear wheels from rotating.

d. Shift the selector lever to the drive (D) position.

e. Depress the accelerator pedal fully to engage the electronic control coupling.

f. While depressing and holding the accelerator pedal, have two people try rotating both front wheels by hand in the same direction.

g. If both front wheels can be rotated, confirm rear propeller shaft operation. If the rear propeller shaft does not rotate, go to Step 2.
If the shaft does rotate, diagnose further and repair as necessary.

STEP 2. Replace the transfer unit. Refer to workshop manual section 03-16. The new transfer unit is available as P/N AW21-27-500K-9U.
 
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I try this and see what I come up with, one question when they say propeller shaft, are they talking about the drive shaft? Or the axle shaft (the shafts between the diff and wheels)
Thanks...
 
I try this and see what I come up with, one question when they say propeller shaft, are they talking about the drive shaft? Or the axle shaft (the shafts between the diff and wheels)
Thanks...

the long shaft that runs the length of the vehicle from the front transfer case to the rear differential, see picture below.
might be a good idea to mark the shaft with a temporary small white tape so the two guys in the front turning the wheels
can easy spot if the shaft is turning or not.

 
I'm at work now, so I will check this out tomorrow, one question though, if the transfer case does need to be replaced is this something I can do myself? Or does it require special tools that only dealers have.
 
I'm at work now, so I will check this out tomorrow, one question though, if the transfer case does need to be replaced is this something I can do myself? Or does it require special tools that only dealers have.

I think it's doable if you have the right tools and have a high level of mechanical proficiency.
One of the Ford Edge guys was able to remove it and disassemble it himself and drill out his
own drain plug without any special dealer tools.

see Amazon link, looks pretty basic to install, looks like it's just bolted on , it's $553 shipped
https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)

read thru the Amazon questions link though, note one of the answered question
make sure to check the mating output splines from the transmission splines are not stripped
https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)

if the mating transmission splines are stripped and you install a brand new transfer case with perfect splines, the worn splines from the transmission will also wear out the new splines from the transfer case which will lead to premature transfer case failure.

That is why if you google CX-9 transfer cases, you'll find unfortunate owners who had to keep replacing transfer cases multiple times, some failed after 20k or less after a new transfer case was installed, it's because the transmission splines wasn't replaced.

See 67mgb post in link below,
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123831170-Transfer-case-SB-03-005-11&highlight=spline

THAT'S REALLY THE HEART OF THE CX-9 PTU issue
, the PTU unit itself is relatively inexpensive, it's the collateral damage to the transmission splines that everyone is worried about, if you read 67mgb's post, if the transmission splines are damaged , they don't just sell that one little piece, the WHOLE TRANSMISSION has to be replaced and that is $$$$$.

Now here's the catch, the car will still run perfectly fine as a FWD, just not as a AWD. And that's why I think Mazda isn't issuing a full recall, it's not a life safety failure, the car can still be driven after a PTU failure but I'm pretty sure there will be a huge BANG sound, followed by violent jerking motion as the transmission and transfer case fight each and an awful putrid transfer case oil smell that would frighten most drivers.

Eventually the jerking will stop when the mating splines are completely sheared off and the transmission is decoupled from the PTU. Some owners may not want to spend that kind of money if the car can still run and just leave it alone and drive it as a FWD. For some that's just not an option and they need AWD in snow and just have to suck it up and fix it. OR they cut their losses and trade it in or sell it. And unfortunately for the new buyers there's really no way to test the AWD until the first snowfall.

The splines get stripped if the PTU fails when the oil stops doing its job and the gears seize taking the transmission splines with it. That's why all the guys here on this forum are servicing the transfer case oil to prevent PTU failure but even more important; prevent $$$$$ transmission damage.



 
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Well I followed the procedure as outlined and the rear shaft did not turn, looks like another bad transfer case. What pisses me off is I have owned this vehicle less than 3 months, guessing it was bad when I bought it. Lucky me...
 
Well I followed the procedure as outlined and the rear shaft did not turn, looks like another bad transfer case. What pisses me off is I have owned this vehicle less than 3 months, guessing it was bad when I bought it. Lucky me...

damn, that is what I was afraid of, I can't imagine the previous owner not notice the PTU gears crunching or the horrible sulfur type smell from the transfer case.

hopefully the transmission splines are ok, and it's just a matter of swapping out the transfer case, all things considered,
this would be the best case scenario and seems like the least expensive with the transfer case from Amazon $553 shipped.

from info that I have found online, http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/14518/mazda/cx-9/mazda-cx-9-transmission-problems/p2
NOT ALL PTU failures will result in the splines shearing off, maybe the failure occurred downstream of the spline section and the gears INSIDE the PTU were sheared. That would be good news in that all you need to do is swap out the PTU and you are good to go.

see Edmunds link above, don't ignore the leaking dark grey oil or horrible smell, needs to be addressed asap, one owner even had the car catch on fire from the leaking oil.

if the transmission splines are sheared, then that's a bigger problem, swapping in a new transfer case won't help.
maybe look into the transmission assembly closer (I'll see if I can get an exploded view drawing of the transmission
for you and pinpoint the part number of the transmission output spline to the PTU) and maybe you can just buy
the spline section of the transmission from the junkyard for cheap.

best of luck to you, when you remove the faulty PTU just take a look at the splines, if they look good, chances are the transmission splines are ok too, and you've been driving around with the spines turning but the internal PTU gears were damaged and not transferring power to the rear wheels.
 
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Thanks Avidien for your help. Very helpful.


don't mention it Ridgerunr, I found something that might be useful, PTU removal / installation

attachment: View attachment PTU removal_ installation.pdf

let me know if you need any of the sub-assembly instructions in blue, I'll PM them to you.

I'm still trying to locate the transmission output spline (red arrow) p/n for you, it's difficult to locate but I'm sure it's possible,

 
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crap !! sorry Ridgerunr, the stupid transmission output spline is not sold separately !

info from 67mgb is correct, that piece is part of the whole transmission assembly. According to the diagram, the part is not serviced, anyone knows what that means?

If enough of us start complaining to Mazda, maybe mazda will make it a serviceable part and a PTU failure may not be so costly, don't need to replace the whole transmission, just that one piece that connects the transmission to the PTU.

see link and picture

http://www.jimellismazdaparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=302838&ukey_make=995&ukey_model=14354&ukey_category=20236

 
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Some people can rebuild the broken parts with loyal price. But only in the Russia.
Works to rebuild part in a red circle - around 250USD.

Thanks for the info Vlad ! I never understood the parts in this video but now I get it,

so the part laying on the worktable is around $250 USD ? or if anyone can translate what he's saying in the video ?



now I guess the million dollar question is what is the part number and where to buy it for those with damaged transmission splines ?

maybe an expert or a Mazda tech can chime in and help those owners out and provide more information

 
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so the part laying on the worktable is around $250 USD ?
No, 250USD is a only work price. (U send him broken part, they are rebuild it and send it back).
Some people sell already rebuilded part or part from crashed car - price in the Russia around 500-800 USD.

Part from transfer case also can be rebuilded with another 250USD, but buying new transfer case is better.


And another solution from Dagestan. Price for working to rebuild both parts - 500USD.


 
No, 250USD is a only work price. (U send him broken part, they are rebuild it and send it back).
Some people sell already rebuilded part or part from crashed car - price in the Russia around 500-800 USD.

Part from transfer case also can be rebuilded with another 250USD, but buying new transfer case is better.


And another solution from Dagestan. Price for working to rebuild both parts - 500USD.



Anyone like myself wondering if it's the transmission spines design itself that's inadequate causing premature failure of sheared off splines.......

OR

PTU transfer case failure and seizing causing damage to the spines ??

If transfer case failure and transfer case has less than 90,000 miles then Mazda should cover the cost of damaged transmission right ?
 
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Batmancx9, here is a recap and update on my situation. 2010 cx-9 74 K miles. In November 2015, I heard the loud clunk and brought it to the dealership. I had read this forum, so I was convinced that my TC had seized. I did not, however, suspect that my transmission splines had also been affected. The dealership could not find any problem, even though I directed them to the TC issues described here. I decided that since I still had a few months remaining on Mazda's extended transfer case warranty, I would watch it closely and bring it back again before the TC warranty expired.

Fast forward to January 2016 - the first sign of snow. I realized that my 4WD wasn't working and I had little traction, I brought it back to the dealership. This time they told me the TC had failed and would be covered my Mazda’s extended warranty on the part. However, the transmission splines were sheared and that was not covered - $4800! I was very calm, but direct with the service manager. I told him that he would have to find a way to work with Mazda to get this covered since they had misdiagnosed this in November AND their defective part had damaged my transmission. I told him that I was holding either Mazda or the dealership responsible for this situation.

Honestly, I was not optimistic that Mazda would come through and that I would have to pay$$$. Low and behold, the service manager convinced his Mazda rep to cover the repairs, including the new (or possibly remanufactured?) transmission. Feeling a bit greedy, I even got them to give me a loaner vehicle while the repairs are being made (waiting a week for the transmission). My car is still there and I expect to get it back later this week. I'll update again when its back.

I am so thankful that this service manager went to bat for me and Mazda did the right thing here. That $4800 would have really put me in a bind. This is no one's fault but Mazda's - plain and simple. They should be recalling this part and covering any transmissions that were affected as a result of it. Unfortunately, until someone is hurt or killed from a fire (it's happened at least twice!) or an accident, I don't expect to see any widespread action. `

Assuming all goes well with the repairs that are currently underway, I plan to use Avidien's method to keep this drivetrain going for a while. I don't think l that I'll be keeping this vehicle for the long haul. I doubt that I'll be as lucky the next time something major goes wrong with it. Perhaps I'll sell it and apply the $4800 that I would have coughed-up to my down payment on a Pilot. Too bad, really, because I think the CX-9 is a much better looking vehicle. But, as we all know, looks aren't everything. Good luck with your drivetrain situations.
 
thanks rgrisoli for your info, that's super awesome that Mazda will cover your transmission repair!!

per Vlad's posts, seems like our fellow CX-9er's friends in Russia already know about this widespread problem
and way ahead of the curve and fixing the splines as low as $250 USD instead of replacing the whole transmission.

so far I'm all good at 48,000 miles , I've been following Avidien's procedure also every 6000 miles, swapping out transfer case oil.
I'm leaning towards (or at least hoping) that it's the TC that seizes and causing the transmission splines damage, not the other way around.

My logic is that if the transmission is the weak link then FWD owners would also be reporting transmission failures but since that's not the case it will be logical to say the transfer cases are seizing due to insufficient lubrication and taking out the transmission splines.

P.S. I've just notice one common theme in Vlad's posts: there is ALWAYS a transfer case failure that accompanies a transmission spline failure. This tells me that the transfer case is the culprit, basically a "cause and effect" situation. So far, I've never heard of stripped splines and a GOOD transfer case, if there is, then we're ALL SCREWED because that means it's an inherent design flaw in the transmission splines BUT good news is I haven't heard or seen any yet.
 
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Agreed, from what I've read on this forum, it seems logical that the TC is the weak link and can sometimes result in sheared transmission splines – not the other way around. Just my opinion, but I'm certainly no mechanic.

One thought - it seems to me that the FWD models wouldn't have these splines that lead into the TC. Also, I suspect that when my TC failed in November, the noises that I heard were my splines being sheared. My transmission and vehicle ran fine after that incident, but I realize now that I was basically operating on FWD only. The ONLY thing that I did notice is that it sometimes felt like I was dragging the rear end of the drivetrain a bit. . Like it wasn’t spinning completely freely. Once or twice while driving, I had to look at the emergency brake to see if I had left it slightly depressed - not the case though. My gas mileage definitely decreased. It wasn't until I got into snow and ice that I realized I was only spinning the front wheels.

IDK, you guys who are servicing the TC regularly seem to be having good luck. Maybe I'll hold on to my Mazda after all. Thanks to everyone here for your insight, resourcefulness, and for sharing your knowledge - especially to Avidien for documenting the process. I think I’ll be buying the pump, some bricks and the proper oil. This forum is fantastic!
 
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