Car rolling backwards while in park on an incline

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doughboy52

Contributor
:
2013 CX-5 Touring FWD Sky Blue
I've got a 2013 AT with about 33K miles. This morning I parked on a steep incline, placed the car in park, and took my foot off the brake to then turn off the car. It started going backwards down the hill and it stopped when I reapplied the brakes. I thought maybe it was sliding since there was about 1/4" of snow, but I left it in park and opened the door to watch the wheels when I took my foot off the brakes and sure enough the wheels were rolling. I've never experienced this before and I've parked on this hill and others dozens of times before with no parking brake.

I know plenty will question why I'm not using a parking brake, but I'm just hoping to get an idea of what might be going on here. I've driven plenty of automatics and right or wrong, I have not been in a habit of using the parking brake regularly and have never had this happen to me in a car. Any idea what's going on?
 
doughboy52 said:
I've got a 2013 AT with about 33K miles. This morning I parked on a steep incline, placed the car in park, and took my foot off the brake to then turn off the car. It started going backwards down the hill and it stopped when I reapplied the brakes. I thought maybe it was sliding since there was about 1/4" of snow, but I left it in park and opened the door to watch the wheels when I took my foot off the brakes and sure enough the wheels were rolling. I've never experienced this before and I've parked on this hill and others dozens of times before with no parking brake.

I know plenty will question why I'm not using a parking brake, but I'm just hoping to get an idea of what might be going on here. I've driven plenty of automatics and right or wrong, I have not been in a habit of using the parking brake regularly and have never had this happen to me in a car. Any idea what's going on?
Click to expand...

My first guess is that is sounds like your lack of use of the PARKING BRAKE, might have broken or damaged the PARK PAWL in the transmission.

When parked on an incline, and not using the PARKING BRAKE, all of the force of the vehicle is being held by a little PARKING PAWL in the transmission. It is the parking brake that is designed to hold the car when parked. :(
 
I doubt it'd be that easy to break the park pawl/transmission lock. I've seen ppl just slam the car into park and the momentum will just rock the car back and forth, but not roll away.

If the transmission lock was actually functioning, there's still a way the car can roll back. Due to the slippery conditions, if the driver's side wheel was rotating backwards, the passenger side wheel would have been rotating forward while you were rolling back, due to the differential. However, this would require the tires to have VERY little traction in order to work, which could have been possible?

The way to really check is to park the car on an incline again, but on a surface with lots of traction and see if the car will still roll. If it does, then the transmission lock could have been damaged at some point.
 
When I put on the parking brake it immediately stopped rolling, so I don't think it was the slipperiness of the surface. The tires are the original Yokos, but they're not even down to the wear bars so they have decent traction - dealer service department marked them as 'green' on their courtesy inspection when it was in for a warranty repair a few weeks ago. But I will monitor and see what it does on that same inclined driveway when it's dry next time.

I'd be stunned if the pawl actually is broken. I only park on an incline like that about once a week and it's only there for a few minutes. Its usual parking spot is nearly flat. I guess it's just surprising to me that it would break so soon given that it's usually parked flat and we also have owned since new a Pontiac G6 with 175K mi and an RSX with 115K mi and neither has had an issue under the same types of driving and parking behaviors.
 
doughboy52 said:
When I put on the parking brake it immediately stopped rolling, so I don't think it was the slipperiness of the surface. The tires are the original Yokos, but they're not even down to the wear bars so they have decent traction - dealer service department marked them as 'green' on their courtesy inspection when it was in for a warranty repair a few weeks ago. But I will monitor and see what it does on that same inclined driveway when it's dry next time.

I'd be stunned if the pawl actually is broken. I only park on an incline like that about once a week and it's only there for a few minutes. Its usual parking spot is nearly flat. I guess it's just surprising to me that it would break so soon given that it's usually parked flat and we also have owned since new a Pontiac G6 with 175K mi and an RSX with 115K mi and neither has had an issue under the same types of driving and parking behaviors.
Click to expand...

So when then do you use the parking brake?(dunno)

I doubt it's the pawl either, but was my first thought that met all of the criteria you described...
 
Shifter cable/linkage (whatever is under there) out of adjustment? I've seen snapped pawls, not a big piece of metal holding all that weight on a hill.
 
mazdadude said:
So when then do you use the parking brake?(dunno)

I doubt it's the pawl either, but was my first thought that met all of the criteria you described...
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(shrug) I honestly don't have an explanation and it's just something I've never done and my parents nor my wife or her family do it on a regular basis. Funny that you ask because when I was searching online before posting, there are similar threads about pawls and whatnot that just get into the parking brake debate. Some people do, some never have, some say they don't know anyone who does, etc. I don't have a reason for not using it - I just never have.

I'm learning the importance of it now as a result, but does it really make sense that the pawl could have worn out or broken this soon?
 
madar said:
Shifter cable/linkage (whatever is under there) out of adjustment? I've seen snapped pawls, not a big piece of metal holding all that weight on a hill.
Click to expand...

I'll have to keep that in mind. I guess I'll have to monitor it and decide if I need to take it in. Assuming this would ultimately fall under the 5 yr/60K mi powertrain warranty if it is indeed transmission-related?

Thanks for everyone's thoughts so far.
 
You first mentioned snow in op - like deepfried indicated if the passenger wheel only was on snow/ice - likely when near the curb, then the drivers tire would appear turning downhill while the passenger tire was turning uphill at double the speed on snow/ice. When you applied the emergency brake the rear tire(s) not on snow stop the car. Even if the rear tires have the same traction conditions as the front you now have 4 tires engaged in stopping the car so it stops. Probably nothing wrong with the car unless like above suggestion you can repeat on dry pavement.
 
Why do people not use the parking brake AT ALL?
My dad does it and now my mom doesn't do it because my dad told her so.
I have a friend or two that do not either.
When I've taken my cars to the dealer for service and they park it for me to pick it up, they never set the parking brake either.

I don't get it.
 
I tried it again on dry pavement yesterday afternoon and the pawl grabbed as expected. It must be something related to what deepfriedsushi and gaxibm said with the slippery surface and the tires. Even though the tires aren't worn down, they've still got 33K mi on them and they're the stock Yoko 17s, and we all know how everyone feels about those tires.

Lesson learned, though - begin using my parking brake regularly! I forgot to use it this morning when I got to work (hand) Just need to work on making it a habit. Thanks for all the input!
 
I can understand recent Honda owners not using their park brake, it is really and truly a terrible design, but the Mazda park brake works well. No problem to set or release it.
 
I've noticed that the CX-5 engine has very low reciprocating mass. If you try to downshift going down a mountain to slow car, it has far less effect than other cars. That's a great thing for efficiency, not so great if you are trying to use the engine as a brake. IMO, if you are on a steep incline, use the parking brake.
 
CC58 said:
I've noticed that the CX-5 engine has very low reciprocating mass. If you try to downshift going down a mountain to slow car, it has far less effect than other cars. That's a great thing for efficiency, not so great if you are trying to use the engine as a brake. IMO, if you are on a steep incline, use the parking brake.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with the discussion.

An automatic in "P" does not use the engine as a brake.
 
nXt said:
Why do people not use the parking brake AT ALL?
My dad does it and now my mom doesn't do it because my dad told her so.
I have a friend or two that do not either.
When I've taken my cars to the dealer for service and they park it for me to pick it up, they never set the parking brake either.

I don't get it.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you don't get it because you live in Southern California and / or mostly drive automatics. I was taught to never use the parking brake unless parked on a steep hill, for a number of reasons:

1) cable-operated parking brakes can freeze up in the winter.
2) cables stretch, so if you use it every day the parking brake may not work when you really need it.
3) with a standard transmission, 1st or reverse is just as effective as the parking brake, possibly more so if your cable has stretched.

We were always taught to just leave the car in gear - in fact, one car with a 3-on-the-tree and locking steering column would not let you remove the key unless you were in reverse.

Some of that is, of course, dated - but that's the history. I still never use the parking brake unless I am parking on a hill. And in the winter, I don't park on hills unless absolutely necessary - one trip under the car to free up the brakes was enough for me.

Flymo
 
Last edited:
flymo said:
Some of that is, of course, dated - but that's the history. I still never use the parking brake unless I am parking on a hill. And in the winter, I don't park on hills unless absolutely necessary - one trip under the car to free up the brakes was enough for me.
Click to expand...

Dated indeed. Two Winnipeg winters with the CX-5, using the park brake at least twice a day, and not a single issue.
 
flymo said:
I'm guessing you don't get it because you live in Southern California and / or mostly drive automatics. I was taught to never use the parking brake unless parked on a steep hill, for a number of reasons:

1) cable-operated parking brakes can freeze up in the winter.
2) cables stretch, so if you use it every day the parking brake may not work when you really need it.
3) with a standard transmission, 1st or reverse is just as effective as the parking brake, possibly more so if your cable has stretched.

We were always taught to just leave the car in gear - in fact, one car with a 3-on-the-tree and locking steering column would not let you remove the key unless you were in reverse.

Some of that is, of course, dated - but that's the history. I still never use the parking brake unless I am parking on a hill. And in the winter, I don't park on hills unless absolutely necessary - one trip under the car to free up the brakes was enough for me.

Flymo
Click to expand...


Sorry man, but I have to respectfully disagree. (uhm) I think you are applying your extreme severe weather techniques too broadly.

Cables do stretch, but in all my cars I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I have had to adjust a P brake cable.

Putting the vehicle into a 1st or rev gear is NOT as effective. You are only applying torque to two of the wheels, and the engine can still turn over causing the vehicle to move.

Not using a parking brake is not only unsafe, but it also makes your vehicle super easy to steal because they just have to lift your front tires.


However, that being said, I imagine that if I had to UNFREEZE a stuck parking brake once, I might feel a bit differently. (spin)
 
I'm not trying to talk anyone into following my lead, but just to answer the question that was asked - if you feel your vehicle is unsafe when parked without the brake on, or that it's a theft deterrent, by all means, use the parking brake.

I am glad to hear the Winnepeg experience indicates the CX-5 is sealed better than some of my previous vehicles.

Flymo
 
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