Cold Weather: All Terrain vs Snow Tires [Advocacy]

[Admins: please don't move this message to the tire forum!]

Last week Colorado received its first significant snow storm of the season. We got three inches on the first day, then another 3-5 inches depending on location. In a 24 hour period I got to experience driving on thick tread ATS tires and then snow tires. For the benefit of all those people that still don't believe in buying dedicated cold weather tires, I thought I'd share my experiences in the main forum here because many people don't read messages in the CX-5 Tires area.

On day one I had Yokohama AT/S All-Terrain tires with about 10mm of thick tread on them. Many people would think they'd be fine for snow because of such deep tread, but that wasn't the case. As I drove up a windy mountain road, the surface went from cold/wet asphalt, to light snow cover, then to about 1/2 - 1 inch of fresh snow and a slight sheen of ice on the road from earlier rain.

* On a flat area, if I pressed the pedal down, I was able to spin the wheels and get the traction control light on.
* When trying to take corners on the many switchbacks up the mountains, I could feel the car fail to grip and slide forward with the momentum of the car. I had to slow down to boring speed to avoid this.
* Several times that night and the next day when I would go 15-30 miles an hour then slam on the brakes to test stopping distance I was shocked at how long it took. I could feel the car pumping the breaks but despite that its clearly just plain sliding across the snowpack at the same time.

The next day I put last year's Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV Snow tires on. What a difference!! The tire center measured them at 10mm before they put them on. They had only been in use for one season, so not new, but not worn down.

* My first test was going from 15 mph to zero in a Safeway parking on fresh snow: really quick stopping. Like stopping on a gravel road instead of asphalt, a little longer distance but safe.
* Then, after an evening meeting, I tried flooring it and heavy-brake stopping in an empty corporate building parking lot with about 2" of snow. No loss of of traction control and comfortable, confident stopping. (Having fun at this point)
* I tried the same tests going up the mountain this night after 3" of snow had fallen:
* Fairly difficult to get the traction control light on: I had to find patches where the snow was mixed with slush. If it was packed snow, I couldn't do it.
* Taking corners on mountain switchbacks with these tires was impressive. They just grip, grip, grip like the snow isn't there. It's so much fun driving in a vehicle that handles it so well. This was probably what surprised me the most: the cornering.

The next morning I drove in the long way, taking a gravel road that was covered in 3" of virgin snow and it looked like only about two vehicles had been on it that morning. I was nervous at first -- there are CLIFFS on this route -- but once I got going, I really enjoyed it. Same as before: good traction for accelleration, great stopping, and really fun corner handling.

So here's the point of this message: If you are in an area where you will get snow and ice this winter season, PLEASE consider getting snow tires. This was my second year in a row where the transition from non-cold weather tires to cold weather tires shocked me when I did my first driving in the snow.

My experience completely backs up what others have stated before: For winter conditions of snow and ice the combination of rubber designed for cold weather, sipes, special tread patterns and decent tread depth is superior to All Terrain tires despite they're aggressive looking tread. If you've got All Season tires, I'd expect a similar or greater difference in experience and safety.

I love my Hakkas, and I used to drive Blizzaks, and others have written some good testimontials in the Rims, Tires and Brakes CX-5 forum on mazdas247.com. Go read up, read how consistently people praise their cold weather tires and get some!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...X-5-with-and-without-snow-tires-(Hakkas)-long

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123844547-Winter-tires

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...the-Snow-Adventure-Winter-Driving-in-Colorado

I wonder if getting the Yokohama's siped would help?

They actually have some sipes, but not the volume and style that the Hakkas have. I'm convinced it's a combination of things that makes the cold weather tires better.

I've taken to calling them cold weather tires after someone in the forums described them as such. Even if you don't have snow, that cold temp and occasional ice patch should probably be handled better with cold focused tires..


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I might have to track down some rims for these Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV tires

Absolutely! It hard to imagine what a night/day difference it is until you try it.

It's the winter rubber compound that makes the most difference although optimized tread is a benefit that is additive.

I will emphasize that it is important to keep the air pressures near the high end with winter tires. Otherwise freeway driving can heat the tires and cause that rubber compound to continue curing. The result will be winter tires that handle snow more like an all-season radial than the winter tire it's supposed to be.

I just drove trough my first snow storm of the year today on the same Hakka R2 tires as maxwax. Man these things are great. Picked up my 1 1/2 year old kid at daycare, which is in a poorly plowed and dark rural area. I cannot imagine not having these tires on with her in the car.

I also agree with the cold weather denomination. If you live in a cold area, even if you don't get that much snow, get them. The rubber on all seasons gets really hard in cold weather (below about 7C, or 45F), almost like plastic. Imagine trying to brake, even on a dry road, with plastic wheels... Winter tires stay soft as they should.

I'll put in another good vote for Hakka's. I just put the R2's on last week, and they do grip. Foolin around with them on hard pack snow covered road, hitting the brakes hard, it was tough to get the ABS to kick in. The first week of snow is always crazy anyways, but had to stop a few times to watch people slide into our path.
I've used Nokians in the past and know they work. This Hakka R2 SUV tire is a few generations newer than my last set. My brother works at a tire shop, and sells every brand except nokian. I could have got any other brand at the cheap family discount, but opted to pay a fair bit more at a different shop for the Nokians. He didn't even argue.

On another note, I was never a winter tire guy for our FWD car. We used "all season" rubber, drove accordingly and never had problems. But a few years back, we were forced to put winter rubber on one car and found out first hand how much better they perform in the cold. Ever since then, we have used winter tires.

I just ordered 4 General Altimax Arctic tires yesterday. I also decided to minus size down to 16", so I ordered some steel wheels as well. This will be my first set of winter tires... ever. (breakn) Can't wait to test them out.

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Look at all those sipes! My Yokohama ATS tires have a few sipe like grooves on them but not like this photo above. MikeM posted an explanation in one of the other threads about why snow tires are different and better for snow than thick tread non snow tires. After reading it I keep thinking about snow tires like having lots of little grippy caterpillar legs on my tires instead of a few big claws like the ATS tires. Lots of little bits of grip add up to a lot.


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I put on Firestone A/Ts - 235 65 17 All Terrains about 3 weeks ago and noticed a huge improvement over the OEMs. in dry and wet here in NJ.
I just used these A/Ts in 1" of snow this past week (not really ice - just snow). The A/Ts performed better in every aspect I can feel, than the OEM Yokos. Grip in the wet, dry and the 1" snow is much better than the Yoko OEMs. I'll post more if bad weather continues.

Jonesey said:

I put on Firestone A/Ts - 235 65 17 All Terrains about 3 weeks ago and noticed a huge improvement over the OEMs. in dry and wet here in NJ.
I just used these A/Ts in 1" of snow this past week (not really ice - just snow). The A/Ts performed better in every aspect I can feel, than the OEM Yokos. Grip in the wet, dry and the 1" snow is much better than the Yoko OEMs. I'll post more if bad weather continues.

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I tell my family and friends, the cheapest snow tires are always better than the best all season tires. Living in Canada, snows are a must have.

I agree, Maxwax.

Snow tires on the CX-5 is the easiest way to turn a sketchy winter drive into a nearly stress free event.
The biggest problem is the fact that very few of the other motorists on the road with us are also sporting cold weather tires.
You see them struggling to take off from a stop, have huge wiggle events when they tap the brakes, or kiss the curb on a mild corner, right in front of you, while you just slice right through the snow.

And even better when you see other tires just caked in a solid layer of snow, whereas all snow tires seem to keep their tread clean all the time.

BC.

Bladecutter said:

The biggest problem is the fact that very few of the other motorists on the road with us are also sporting cold weather tires.

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Not having winter tires on past December 15th is illegal here in Quebec, and I couldn't be happier about it! It just make everyone on the road safer, from themselves and from others.

Hard to believe that Quebec is the only territory in North America with widespread tire laws (to my knowledge), tires being such basic safety equipment and all.

Hakka's are a hell of a tire, I had them on a previous Toyota Sequoia and they did their job for me in the country when I lived there, heavy snow fall with significant drifts. Now I live in the burbs (for now) and with my CX-5 I have Blizzaks, the dealer gave me a pretty good deal on the tires, buy 3 get 1 for $1 and they also found me 19" steel rims with covers as well, pre-mounted and balanced so I only have to swap the full tire/rim off, saves time, money and wear on the sidewall.

My Hakka's are studded. A little more noisy but stopping on ice is greatly improved over my non studded Hakka's on my F150. Taking off is similar to both sets of tires with the studded version having the slight edge. For the F150, this is my last set. They are not as good as the previous version. They work great until they don't and that's usually at the wrong time or worse, unexpectedly. But for the CX-5, no problem. I had them mounted on steel rims and even use standard chrome lugs for the winter. I live in a harsh winter location where ice is far worse than the snow.