Looking for tuning Advice

EverKing

Member
:
Mazda Protege MP3
Some may have noticed at the bottom of my "Greetings!" thread that I am looking at rebuilding an FS-DE. I'm not looking for anything overly track worthy or for any insane gains; just want a modest and rock-solid build that will get me another 5+ years of fun tooling around on open rural twisties but that is still suitable for a decent DD.

I'm going to tear apart the engine this weekend and check on the cylinder condition. Depending on what I find my options will be (in order of preference):
  • Clean it and use it as-is
  • Machine/hone it
  • Source a different block
  • Replace the whole engine
  • Scrap the project and the car

Which option I go with will largely depend on the costs involved. My goal is to get FS-ZE output (NA) or better. The big question is how to get there. I plan on dropping in some forged rods and probably some high CR pistons. The part I'm not sure of are whether or not I should do the camshafts/cams as well(?) and what other components I should look at replacing. The obviously ones are the simple things like pulleys and the flywheel, but what else should I be aware of?

I would greatly appreciate any advice on this from people who have had some experience working on the FS engine.

Thanks!
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I see that there have been some views but no responses. I was really hoping to hear more from people who have rebuilt this engine over the years. I'm not looking to too much power, like I said I just want to give it a little more lively heartbeat. Maybe in the 170-190 bhp range (~140-160 whp). However, if that is going to be entail more expense than I'm able to do at this point (say maybe $2000 in parts, excluding any machining, labor, or tuning) I will have to rethink the entire project. The idea here is more to get a good bottom-end build (maybe cams too) in place for future top-end build and tuning. I'm not looking at maxing the engine out of the gate but getting it to a point where it is able to be driven with the prospect of future tuning. Just looking for the best ways to get this done. Give me your opinions even if it is, "mate, you're crazy! Swap the engine/save your money/add FI/etc." I want to know. If I need to move on and just do a factory spec. rebuild I guess it's what I'll do. I am just hoping I can do a ZE clone without too much headache but need to know the best components to use to get this done.
 
im not a pro on this but most will tell you an NA build is a waste of time due to lack of gains from what you're going to be spending. best bang for buck is picking up a used MSP turbo kit, but that may not last you 5 years lol. but it will if you're building the bottom end. so my two cents to you are:

- NA: you can do FS-ZE plus standalone so you can get the most power out of the motor. I don't know anything about cams. you can also swap in a v6 KL motor. the KL-DE is somewhere around 170hp to the crank, KL-ZE ~190-200hp with proper tuning
- TURBO: build your bottom end, pick up an MSP turbo kit, tune.
 
Thank you, 323, for the response. Based on what you're saying and what I'm finding it may be best to just do a standard compression rebuild with forged internals and look at adding FI in the future. I have looked into the KL-ZE a little but there are so many subtle variations of the KL platform I'm hesitant to order one online sight-unseen. There also seems to be a shortage of MT transaxles available for that engine which rules it out (I'm not willing to convert to automatic). I'm also more concerned with vehicle balance than with pure power which is why I want to minimize add-ons or additional weight in the front end.

I'll continue looking into it and when I start the rebuild will keep the forum abreast of any developments.
 
yeah, look in the mazdaspeed protege section of the forum. you'll find plenty of info on building your block. also, sometimes it seems cheaper if you bought a car with a built block and just swapped it over VS building yours from scratch.
 
That's the direction I'm leaning. I may actually end up just dropping a used stock long block in and saving my current engine for a full rebuild over the next few years as time and money allow. The extra car my wife has been driving may soon no longer be around as it is a company car and she may be leaving that company so we may need the MP3 up and running in some form sooner than originally expected.

For the rebuild I have come across a couple catches that hadn't occurred to me previously: preventative replacements (oil pump, water pump, EGR valve, etc.) and the bigger one is engine balancing. If I throw in light-weight forged pistons and rods I'll need to pull the crank out and have it balanced which I hadn't considered when originally toying with the rebuild idea. So, it's looking like picking up a used engine and swapping some parts may be my quickest way to get her up and running then I can build the forged High CR NA motor I want to build for future use.

Thanks again for the advice! I'll let you know how everything goes.
 
Well, after tossing around options for the past couple of months I finally decided to go the (relatively) easy way...I just ordered an FS-ZE complete with ECU. No ETA on the delivery date yet but I have a shop ready and my mechanic is gearing up for the swap. I'll be sure to take pictures and record the processes of the swap with all pertinent details.
 
nice. glad to hear you got the ecu too since that piece seems hard to locate.
 
I just bought myself a KLDE with MT for $240. Thats probably the cheapest, yet most difficult way to go. also tuning that engine up you could get 200HP maybe more with significant money, im looking into now.. not a too difficult swap at all though, and easy to find in salvage yards.
 
Thanks for the info Keatonc but I am now up and running with an FSZE. Today is my first full day of driving her and so far she's running stellar on the stock MP3 ECU. I do have the OBD1 JDM ECU cut it arrived late and without a functionable harness so if I want to use it I'll need to manually rewire everything which I may do...or I may just hold out until I can drop a standalone in it and get a custom tune.

I am planning on dropping a more detailed list of what had to be done to get the FSZE to work as it was slightly more involved than just swapping the crank pulley as others had indicated. Just minor things really like swapping some brackets, modifying the fuel line slightly, shortening the throttle linkage, etc.
 
So, after a month and a half and 5000+ miles I have to say I'm pretty darn happy with the fsze. She purrs beautifully, sounds amazing (especially above 4800 rpm), and seems to have a slightly but still noticeably better response. I'm still running on the MP3 ECU and with the MP3 header and cat but plan on doing the exhause work this spring and maybe replacing the ecu around the same time. I'm anxious to see how she is with an better tune. MPG's are about the same, averaging around 27 combined which is actually slightly worse than I got when the car was new-ish. I think this has something to do with a bad O2 sensor and a fried cat. I may replace the O2 soon to see if it helps but replacing the cat will need to wait until I do the header and down pipe. The other thing that may be negatively impacting my mileage is that the engine sounds and feels so incredible at high RPM that I think I tend to push it up there more than I used to!

Overall, it was the right choice to make.

I still have my old DE and am thinking I may build it as a tuner engine in the future...we'll see.
 
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