4 years/60k miles later with oil in the cylinders

T

therris

Member
:
2003 Protege5
When I replaced my gaskets/timing belt and what not 4 years I noted in this thread:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123777549-timing-issue-P0300-rough-idle

that when I shown a light down into the cylinders, 3 looked wet and one was bone dry.

Today I did the tear down for another round of gaskets and timing belt and all that. When I pulled the lead out of cylinder one oil was dripping off of it. The rest of the cylinders had oil on the leads as well but not dripping like the first.

When I loosened the spark plugs, I would pull the socket out of the cylinder and the first was dripping off, the rest showed signs of oil in them as well. All the spark plugs were covered in oil. Heres a pic of the cylinders once I got the head off:

2014_07_06_22_10_51.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

So for 4 years my engine has been in this condition. It's not drinking oil. Oil changes every 5-6 months. Sometimes the oil light will come on on sharp turns, but that's usually when I need to change the oil anyway. It's leaked oil for years, but I would think with as much oil thats in the cylinders I would be burning oil and blowin smoke but thats not the case.

Here is a pic of the valves:

2014_07_06_22_11_42.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

Finally, also noticed the intake manifold was filthy on the inside with oily black gunk. See pics:

2014_07_06_22_12_18.jpg
[/url][/IMG]



Any ideas? My dad said it could be the rings but I'd have to compression test it to find out.

Thanks for your help.

Jason
 
I'm thinking either seized oil rings or bad valve seals,.... oil on the spark-plug wires shouldn't get into the cylinders. (that's probably your valve cover gasket)
 
I agree with above: oil on the outside of the plugs and the boots is from the valve cover gasket. When you take the plugs out, the oil drips down into the cylinder.

I would not put that head back on without replacing the valve seals. They are known to go bad on these engines. And I'm not convinced you aren't burning oil. If the oil light comes on around turns, you are seriously low so that oil has to be going somewhere. Loss of that much oil on the ground would be obvious. I don't always see smoke from mine, but I know it burns oil.
 
Right. Will be replacing the valve seals with this go-round of gaskets and what not. Didn't do that the last time.

Would any of this explain the gunk in the intake manifold?

Thanks for your help.
 
It could. The EGR connects the exhaust and intake to burn unburnt fuel. If your valve seals or rings are bad oil could pass through the EGR and into the intake.

The same theory might apply to your PVC.

But that seems like an awful lot of "gunk" for you to not be aware that you're burning oil. How many miles do you drive per year?
 
It used to be heavily driven by my wife close to 20k a year, but now that I drive it only to and from work it gets maybe 10k-12k.

I know I leak oil. Many moons ago I went to replace the oil pan gasket and bent the lip of the pan, causing a regular leak. I've since replaced the pan and gasket but still have always had a leak. I've just chalked it up to the age of the car.
 
Is there a good how to for replacing the valve seals?

What I'm finding are all using compressed air to keep the valves up but since I've got the head off I'm not in fear of the valves falling into the cylinder.

So from what I can tell I just follow the how to's I'm finding (compressed air into the valve, tap them, compress the spring, remove keepers and old seal, replace seal, replace keepers, release spring) just without the compressed air part.

Jason
 
Now I'm confused. I went to replace the valve seals with the spring tool I bought but the springs are seated so far down in the head that the tool won't reach them.

How is this done? Is it a special spring tool I'm sposed to get? This is what I bought:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...579&categoryRedirect=N0717&pt=N0717&ppt=C0374

So far I've found this mention of how it's done:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...gress-Thread&p=6097026&viewfull=1#post6097026

but it mentions the tool I have which I don't see how it would work.

Thanks for your help.
 
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Thanks for the links.

This valve seal job is looking more and more like a job for another time. On top of having to find the right tool for the job, it looks like the Felpro gasket set is going to be a problem as they supply 16 identical seals. Due to my time constraints it looks like I'll just do all the gaskets, belt and water pump and save the valve seals for later, although I know they need it.

Has anyone that has bought the Felpro set checked to see if 8 of them can be used and then just buy the other 8 (whether they be the intake or exhaust)?

Guess it'll give me a chance to decide between the compressed air method or the rope method.

Jason
 
Using High-Mileage 10W30 may help with the oil burning,... Thicker oil with seal swellers/softeners.
 
I really think you should just take it to a shop and have the seals replaced. Don't go all this way and then leave notoriously bad valve seals in the head.

Losing oil to the point that your oil light comes on is a really big deal. You'll blow the engine.
 
Autozone shows both the Felpro and the Victor Reinz valve stem seals. The Felpro are like what I have, but the VR show two different items, the intake and the exhaust. Only problem is the exhaust come in packs of 24 ($46) when I only need 8. The intake come in packs of 16 ($29) when I only need 8.

But this is still cheaper than the $225 the dealer quoted me on 8 of each.

So I ordered them from Autozone. Hopefully I'll be able to use half of the Felpro ones, only pick up whichever ones I need (intake or exhaust) from Autozone and return whichever ones I don't need, and in the end have another set ready for the next time around. They'll have the seals tomorrow afternoon so I'll have to wait till then to keep going.

Still have to figure out that tool though to compress the springs and what not, or have a shop just do that for me.

Thanks for the help.
 
So I thought the different seals would be obvious. HA! The only difference I can tell between the IN/EX is the IN has a smooth top around the opening and the EX has a raised ring around the opening and around the edge of the top. Openings look exactly similar.

Talked to Advance Auto worker about it and he said they prolly use a special rubber with the opening undersized for both so that it will seal both tightly.

I picked up the Victor Reinz from Autozone. I guess I'll just install the VR's and forget about trying to match the Felpro's. Rock Auto said they'd reimburse up to $15 for the valve seals. That'll cover half the cost of the exhaust seals. $75 for 2 rounds of IN seals and 3 rounds of EX. Maybe somebody here will buy the others off of me.

PVC tool is working ok. Wondering about how it will be in the reassemble though.
 
Maroon said:
I really think you should just take it to a shop and have the seals replaced. Don't go all this way and then leave notoriously bad valve seals in the head.

Losing oil to the point that your oil light comes on is a really big deal. You'll blow the engine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for convincing me to go ahead and do the valves. Look what I found:



Don't know how long that has been that way. Didn't seem to effect the way the car ran though, as far as I can tell. That cylinder wasn't any dirtier or damaged compared to the others.
 
Good choice on deciding to do the work. I wish I could offer more advice, but have not done valve seals on this car. Perhaps instead of PVC, you could use a deep well socket?

I sort of wish I were in your position because my car is burning about 1.5 quarts per 1,000 miles. You would think that with the hundreds of different engines that don't burn oil, the valve to seal interface would be well known science. Mazda just manages to screw up the simplest of things.
 
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Took the head and all to the machine shop after my dad said that we don't do that kind of work and that they need to pressure test it and plane the head and everything.

Dropped it off on Wednesday and they said they can't have it done till early next week. Ordered the spring that is still on its way.

So I dropped off the head, valves and all their stuff, and the seals. They said they'd also need the cams, the valve cap things that are between the valves and the cams, and the cam holders.

Dropped those off the next day and when I did one of the workers was watching, asked about the head, I told him what was up and he asked "Is that off a 626." I said a protege5 and he said "same thing".

Pretty sure they have a different engine but anyway, I felt I should tell him about the seals. Told him the exhausts were different from the intakes and he shook his head and said "Nope their all the same." I said "Yeah, thats what Felpro thinks but I was able to find some intake and exhaust seals." He said,"Well, they're different colors but they're still the same."

I guess when I drop off the spring I'll have to make sure I'm adamant that the right seals go on the right valves. Even if they are the same, I've gone out of my way to get the right ones so I'd like them put on that way.
 
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