Passenger rear - scraping/grinding noise in wheel area when going over bumps

cameradude

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Mazda 5
Almost sounds like the wheel grinding into the wheel well. As my wife puts it, like water is loudly splashing up into the wheel well.The driver side rear seems unaffected.

This is more noticeable when there are passengers in third row seats. I have a 2010 Mazda 5. I replaced the rear shocks with KYB myself and added an SPC camber kit (inner tire wear). I hear a scraping, grinding sound coming from the right rear tire (which is the same location of the blown rear shock - again which have been replaced) when I go over bumps. I've read some postings regarding thudding/clunking noise but doesn't seem to match mine.

I was going to check and replace the bushings and the links but would this fix the problem? Is it safe to drive? Is it a spring issue?
 
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i would re check the camber first and check the tire for wear on the sidewalls and the fender, liner, and shock
 
I see that the fender (wheel rim) is scraping the tire. I jacked up the car again and re-checked the shock, just in case I had installed a bad shock. Shock looks fine. Depresses slowly and same distance as the other side.

I'm going to take it back to alignment shop tomorrow for them to check the camber. I had a mechanic install the camber arms and a wheel alignment shop adjust it to 0.5 negative camber.

I visually check the spring and it looks ok. Although I' not sure what the mechanics could do other than taking the spring out and checking compression for weariness???

Still got me dumbfounded as to what is causing this?!? Car has 64,000km on it (mostly highway).
 
I see that the fender (wheel rim) is scraping the tire. I jacked up the car again and re-checked the shock, just in case I had installed a bad shock. Shock looks fine. Depresses slowly and same distance as the other side.

I'm going to take it back to alignment shop tomorrow for them to check the camber. I had a mechanic install the camber arms and a wheel alignment shop adjust it to 0.5 negative camber.

I visually check the spring and it looks ok. Although I' not sure what the mechanics could do other than taking the spring out and checking compression for weariness???

Still got me dumbfounded as to what is causing this?!? Car has 64,000km on it (mostly highway).

Car modified at all?

Check for a broken sway bar end link/sway bar bushings, and definitely get it into a shop.
 
Only modification I did was adding a camber arms that were adjustable, allowing me to set correct the overly negative camber. Its now set to -0.5.

I took it to the alignment shop and they said that possibly camber setting at -0.5 could be causing the problem. This is still within mazda spec though. With a full car load (5 adults, 1 child) its seems to happen more often. He suggested my winter tires look wider than the toyo's all season (which they are) and it does appear to stick out more, although not by much. But again, the tires are same size spec as the all season toyos (205/55 r16). He suggestion was to roll the fenders so that this scraping won't happen. I've driven 3 years with these snow tires with no issues before until the camber adjustment.

Here's a summary of events:

1) replaced rear shocks with KYB 343412 Excel-G shocks - right side was leaking. (Coincidently same side is having problem). I didn't noticed any scraping sounds after this. Ride did feel smoother. Winter tires were swapped in after this was done as well.
2) replaced rear camber arms with adjustable camber arms about 3-4 weeks later. Set rear camber to -0.5. Scraping noticed after this was done.

Just seems so odd that camber arms would cause this problem. I haven't come across any other mazda 5 owners having this problem after this was done and it appears many have had this done.

I check the sway bar end links and it looks ok. Sway bar bushings look a little worn.

Just wondering if there any validity to the the alignment guy's advice?

Ultimately, I think I will get this look at by a mechanic again.
 
These are stock wheels? my fenderwells were tearing up my rear tires until I rolled them, but I have 17X7.5s and 215/50 tires and I am sure the offset if different.
To be truthful, different tire brands make a difference though. The car came with the wheels and some Falken Ziex tires...which sucked. I dropped them and went to something more capable and they were broader across the tread and cross-section I guess. The Falkens never rubbed, but the BFGs rubbed within a couple days. They wore too quickly so I went with Silver Editions at Discount Tire. They actually still rubbed, despite being highway, not performance tires. And so I rolled.
 
My snow tires (Gislaved Nord Frost 5) are mounted on oem steelies. I've had these for 3 winters without problems before but again it could be the camber correction.

I chatted with the local Mazda dealer and he referenced a tsb. I'm attaching a full pdf. View attachment Mazda5-TSB-11-02 (small).pdf but you can see the summary below. I saw an older tsb of the same one but this one is newer and supersedes it. He suspects it may be the spring perch and that I may have to do everything in the tsb but looking at the tsb, I think only one might possibly apply to me. Namely, the rear spring seat rubber. I am a bit skeptical since the description of the tsb is for "noise". Mine is definitely tire scraping (when going over bumps).

After I took apart the shocks to double check I didn't get a bad shock, I seem to notice that I haven't gotten the tire scraping sound anymore. Either I have 1) scrapped enough clearance or 2) possibly the rubber seats may have repositioned themselves??? I went over a few bumps again but can't repeat it again. I may need to try and load up 6 people again.

I think this is what I am going to do (bare with my rationale here) :

1) Replace both rear spring seat rubbers with the 2012 version (they are beefed up) as the tsb suggests.
parts: $17 per side ($34)
Labour:1 hour at $60
2) Replace the rear spring coils with 2012 version. Again, supposed to be beefed up. See this thread where others reported an improvement.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123834873-Higher-Rear-Spring-Rate

My wife, son and I drives almost 100km per day. About once a month we probably have 6 passengers. I have a tow hitch that stays on the car (adding 25lbs) that is used for carrying 1 bike rack but in the summers only. Bike rack is about 25lbs as well. Add the bike and that's another 30lbs. Although, bike rack and bike comes off when not in use. I also have a roof rack that's permanently on there and have a thule box for some road trips. The box is on there maybe 4-6 weeks of the year at most (if that). I take the box off when I don't use it. Hopefully replacing the springs with 2012 adds more durability and a higher spring rate without lowering it. I've never had problems with all this load before but possibly the springs are worn.
Parts:~$60 per side ($120)
Labour-$0 - included in replacing of seat rubbers

3) Roll the fenders. (Thaxman -I think you may be right). However, I still don't understand why the problem is just being noticed after 3 years of not being an issue. Again, it could be because of the camber correction. I plan on getting new all seasons when the winter tires go off so I don't want a chance of these being damaged if they might be a slightly wider tire. And I don't want to risk any further scraping.
Labour: $90 (still price shopping) per side ($180)

4) Replace the rear sway bar with one from a MS3 (when I find one).
Cost:??
Labour: Free since I'm going to do this myself.

subtotal of items 1-3 above is going to be approx. $400

My total cost already so far is $400:

$90 for both rear shocks
$120 for the rear camber arms
$100 for the installation of the camber arms (would have tried it myself but threads have stated the driver side rear is a two man job).
$90 for the wheel alignment

So $800 to correct all these suspension problems...yeesh... I suppose it could be worse since these are mainly preventative measures (albeit, it seems be inevitable)....I guess I am ok with this??? (braindead

Thanks everyone for all your contributions. I really do appreciate it!
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Category:02
TSB (Service bulletin No):11-02
Subject:
2006-2010 MAZDAs. NOISE FROM FRONT OR REAR SUSPENSION WHEN PASSING OVER A BUMP OR DRIVING ON UNEVEN ROAD

BULLETIN NOTE: This bulletin supersedes the previous bulletin 02-07-06 issued on 10/07 and 02-08-05 issued on 07/08. The APPLICABLE MODEL(S)A/INS, DESCRIPTION, REPAIR PROCEDURE, PARTS and WARRANTY INFORMATION have been revised.

APPLTCABLE MODEL(S)/VINS
2006-2010 Mazda5 vehicles for front and rear stabilizer bushings.
2006 Mazda5 vehicles with VlNs lower than JM1 CR***" ** 120197 (produced before January 27,2006) for lower arm.
2006-2007 Mazda5 vehicles with VlNs lower than JM1 CR**** ** 160549 (produced before July 1, 2007) for rear suspension arc-welding bead and spring seat rubber.
2007 Mazda5 vehicles with VlNs higher than JMI CR**** "* 160550 (produced after July 1,2007) for rear spring seat rubber.
2008-2010 Mazda5 vehicles for rear spring seat rubber.

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may exhibit a squeak, knock, rattle/chattel or unusual noise from the front suspension or rear suspension when passing over a bump at a low speed or driving on an uneven road. This is may be caused by one of the following:
- The front/rear stabilizer bushing (A). This is caused by dust and/or mud water entering between the stabilizer
bar and stabilizer bushing and damaging the coating applied to the bushing, resulting in excessive clearance.
- The front (A) or rear bushing (B) of the front lower arm (C).
- The rear coil springs may have shifted in the spring seat rubber and/or upper spring pocket in the rear cross- member, and causes the spring to rub against the crossmember. This noise will most likely occur with the rear seat occupied, and can sound like a squeak or knock when going over a bump or a rattle when driving at a steady speed over uneven road surfaces. The problem on early models is the arc-welding bead in the spring pocket on the crossmember where it makes contact with the spring seat rubber is protruding too much, causing the spring seat rubber to be pushed out of position. The arc-welding bead also prevents the rubber from going back to its initial position. On later models, the spring seat rubber is the problem.
 
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