Toast?

So our 2003 P5 has been with my daughter at college in Columbia, MO. Yesterday she calls up and says "there is a problem with the car." This is never good news, especially when said car is 1800 miles away, which makes it really hard to deal with. Anyway, as she describes it, "first the radio went funny, then the battery light came on, then the lights started to dim, then it started smoking, then the radiator cap blew off." With great trepidation I asked, "what did the temperature gauge show?" To which she replied, "oh yes, it was very hot". But wait, there's more! She called some guy she knows to come help. They put the radiator cap back on, it was apparently somewhere in the engine compartment, but did not add coolant. Then they tried repeatedly to jump start the car, and it would run for a few seconds and then die (of course) as soon as the cables came off. Right now it is sitting by the side of the road somewhere in Columbia, and since it is Sunday, there isn't much that can be done.

My best guess is that the belt that drives the water pump etc. failed outright, or became so loose it wasn't turning anything, or one of those driven accessories locked up and wouldn't turn. She did not say that it squealed, so probably one of the first two. Any of these would have been minor if she had only just pulled over and turned it off. She did not, so then it overheated, badly. Blew something, probably the head gasket, to account for the smoke. She did not say what color it was, not sure she could tell as it was dark. Then it got hotter still, and the pressure blew the radiator cap off. I think she even drove it a bit after that.

I'm thinking that this motor may be a lost cause. With the thermal abuse she put it though it would be a minor miracle if, in addition to at least a blown head gasket, it had not also warped the head, or done who knows what other evil damage. This sort of damage is not something I have ever seen personally, never having been dumb enough to run a motor once it was obvious the cooling had failed.

The car only had about 80K miles on it, but that reliable "low mileage" motor just became something else entirely. Anybody care to guess what are we looking at here for repairs, in parts and labor at an independent mechanic?

The water pump and alternator are driven by the same belt. It sounds like that belt is no longer there.

You may get lucky and be able to just simply replace the belt and drive away.

The belt is 10 or 20 bucks plus the labor to put it on (doesn't sound like your daughter can do it).

I'd start with that anyways,... who knows, that might be all it needs. Keep your fingers crossed.

If it blew the cap off head gasket may still be good. Sounds like the belt broke. But in all honesty I'd make her pay for it to teach a bit of responsibility. Depending on mechanic and what really happned could be $100-2000 fix

I had to do the same thing with my wife to teach her to take care of her car.

tweety2300 said:

If it blew the cap off head gasket may still be good.

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Just got off the phone with her and the "smoke" as coming from under the hood, not out the back, so that was coolant.

I'm not very hopeful about the head gasket or the head, as she drove it a long time with the engine very hot. Then they tried repeatedly to jump start it, and ran it each time until the motor died after a few minutes. The car has been towed to a mechanic's but they won't work on it until tomorrow. She said before it was towed her friend checked the oil on the dipstick and the coolant in the radiator, and said he did not see any signs the two had mixed. The overflow tank apparently deformed though.

pasadena_commut said:

...they tried repeatedly to jump start it, and ran it each time until the motor died after a few minutes.

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If that belt is gone then your alternator won't be providing any power. The boost will start the car and charge her battery enough to run the car for a few minutes till it's depleted again.

The fact that it was running for those few minutes is good news.

You may still be in for a cheap fix.

I say punish her by making her buy a belt then install herself,... there's plenty of threads with pictures on this forum to teach her how to do it. That'll teach her.

I feel for you man, reading this frustrated me to no end. I hope for the best, maybe the HG is alright. I have done a couple FSDE HG installs and they are not too difficult but as you stated the car is 2k miles away. Best of luck to you

She cooked the crap out of the motor, so I expect the cylinder head has warped even if the head gasket has not (yet) failed. The state of the head gasket should be known tomorrow.

What are the relative costs of rebuilding or replacing the cylinder head or swapping in a used motor? The car is going to need to be able to pass CA emissions if it is ever going to come home, so I guess that means it needs an FS-DE motor and/or the matching cylinder head, whatever that number may be.

If the coolant got hot enough to deform the overflow tank, is it safe to keep the radiator, or should that too be replaced?

Presumably it would be best to replace all the coolant hoses even if the radiator is salvageable.

Don't get ahead of yourself buddy, start with the belt and go from there.

destineal said:

start with the belt and go from there.

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Right, I was just trying to plan ahead.

The shop where my daughter left it wanted to replace the radiator, water pump, some hoses, two belts (all for around $700) and then start testing. Now, it may well turn out that all those pieces need to be replaced, but there is no way that they could know that yet. Also she chose the shop on the sole criterion that it was the only one open on Sunday - and they didn't even look at it until Monday. Bottom line, no good reason to stick with them.

Man it's a pain trying to pick a mechanic when you are 1800 miles away! Eventually I located a small shop with a mechanic who seemed to have a more reasonable approach: put a belt on it, and then turn it over a few times to see if it is pumping CO2 into the coolant. As it turned out the second shop was right around the corner from the first one, and AAA was kind enough to waive their "one tow per breakdown rule", so it didn't cost anything to move it to the second shop. Well, nothing but the $96 for the "diagnosis" from the first shop.

As an unexpected bonus it turned out there was a body shop next door, and the car needs some work because it was hit in the right front quarter a couple of weeks ago (broken headlight, dinged fender, hole in the bumper cover). So we're getting an estimate for that at the same time.

Just tell the shop to replace the belt. Was it off?

thuzil said:

Just tell the shop to replace the belt. Was it off?

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Apparently. The first shop said it needed to replace 2 belts, presumably the second is the PS and AC. I find it a little hard to believe that both belts failed at the same time, and if the PS had failed, my daughter would have said something about the steering going out.

Well the alternator belt sits on top of the ps/ac belt so they have to remove it anyway, may just be recommending a new one because of that and the belt itself is cheap.

Nouse4aname said:

Well the alternator belt sits on top of the ps/ac belt so they have to remove it anyway, may just be recommending a new one because of that and the belt itself is cheap.

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Could be.

Spoke to the second shop and they said the alternator belt was completely gone. Also that the radiator cracked so badly that they could not run the CO2 test - the coolant leaks out too quickly. So it does need a new radiator in addition to an alternator belt before they can go on. But the price is 1/3 less than the first shop.

My daughter said it was 6 degrees the night before the belt failed. Does cold kill belts? I wouldn't know, it never (ever) gets that cold in Los Angeles. The belts and hoses on that car are less then two years old, odd that one belt failed.

Belts fail all of the time especially if the tension on them isn't set right. That's why it's a good idea to check them when you do oil changes to make sure they are in good shape.

pasadena_commut said:

My daughter said it was 6 degrees the night before the belt failed. Does cold kill belts?

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Cold is hard on belts. The timing belt is supposed to be replaced at 60,000 miles in cold districts,... normally its 105,000 miles.

wow reading what happened made me cringe. some people just should not be driving cars. i say if you dont know what car maintenance is then no driving for you(maybe make her pay for it and/or train her on a routine maintenance schedule to prevent things like this in the future). they need to make it part of the licensing training and tests to be able to check fluids, know the procedure to replace battery and how to change a flat and light bulbs and air filter,and a basic maintenance schedule.but no working at autozone i hear all kinds of stupid stuff people say. people just dont realize your car will be much more reliable and cheaper to drive if you do routine maintenance before a major problem not let the major problem force you to. belts, hoses, lights, fluids, filters,ect can save major issues down the road, if your car has a leak find the source and fix it dont run "stop leaks" in any system. but to your daughters p5 it does sound like the motor will make it. these Mazda motors are tough as nails, belt, radiator should be all it needs, might have them do thermostat while they have system apart (its $20 part) have them check her air intake tube for rips as well that is common on the p5 as it sits near that crossbar in the hood and rips near there as it gets hot. have them do a leak down test just in case it may have blown the head gasket and not notice (out, as in leaking coolant out of gasket to engine bay) or in (into oil or "the chocolate milkshake of death" if bad enough or left too long)

No offense, but you work at autozone and you talk about people saying stupid things? Some of the dumbest things I've ever heard has come out of an autozone employees mouth. They don't even get my business anymore

Some people shouldn't be allowed to keyboard by the standard you're setting, kms. Many people don't understand cars. Yes, maybe there are consequences in order, but it's not as though she did anything other than what she thought was right. All routine maintenance is great, and if you're on here you pretty much know it. Luckily when people don't understand their cars, they ask someone who does.

Best of luck to you, OP. It sucks that the car is so far away, but hopefully it is easily fixed and didn't blow the HG.

Sounds a lot like when my thermostat went out. Chain reaction ?
I had HOT water all over the place.

kms1990 said:

have them check her air intake tube for rips)

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The intake tube is only 3 years old, since that is when it ripped, just as you describe. For those who have not yet experienced this, the car runs like crap with a torn intake hose. We had every hose and belt on the car replaced before we shipped it to her, specifically to avoid this sort of problem. Apparently the belt they used was either defective or that brand just couldn't handle the low temperatures.

Probably the radiator cracked from the pressure, but I also wonder if the belt might not have given it a good smack when it flew off.