Regarding automatic transmission fluid.

markuszoom5

Member
:
Mazda 5 Sport
I have read a lot of things about tranny fluid on this board. It should look red and not brown. Red is good and brown is burnt. Your tranny might be toast if it smells bad. Well I have 36,000 and I just pulled out the dipstick for the first time. The fluid was brown and smelled bad. My car is only 3 years old. I bought it brand new. So then I checked my wife's Honda Civic 2007, which she also bought brand new and has 35,000 (she does not drive much). The car is 7 years old. Well, her fluid has never been changed, and the car is now out of warranty. The fluid was bright red and had almost no smell to it, whereas my fluid was dark brown and smelled like crap. It was really bad. So then I went online to educate myself about tranny fluid.
Well, I hope this is not a shock to everybody, but apparently the color and the smell says nothing about tranny fluid life. Only mileage decides the condition. And, also it appears that a flush/drain is not going to help much if the filter is clogged. So does the MZ5 have a tranny filter? Who would even replace that, because the dealer only does flushes. So who is the master expert here and who really knows for sure how this tranny is supposed to be treated?
It looks like I will have to call Mazda to find out, anybody know?

Check out this link that I found.
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/141
 
markuszoom5 - I noticed you tend to post all your threads in the “general” area. May I suggest you post thread's in the appropriate section. This will get help yourself and others see/search for similar concerns/issues.

Not sure if you've seen this thread but you may find it helpful.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...-on-the-Mz5!&p=6166067&viewfull=1#post6166067

No, mileage alone does not dictate condition. Like all things, it is a combination of things but the #1 killer is heat, which is a common killer of the engine and all things made up of moving metal parts. All HWY mileage is not a bad thing and is a reason newer used cars with high mileage is better than an older car with low mileage (generalizing here). Think of it this way, when you move from stop sign/stop light to the next, your auto shifted from 1-2-3-2-1. Those short burst of traffic from 1-2-1 is the worst. Image it doing this thousands of times = wear and tear. It is the fluids’ job to protect it and the filters’ job to catch the ferrous particles. You can also add an external supplemental ATF oil filter that you simply put in-line of the ATF oil flow. On the Honda vs Mazda question, Honda users better comments throughout their cars. Things like seat fabrics, interior plastics, panel thickness, FLUIDS (Honda actually uses damn good throughout) are all better on what I call 1st tier Japanese manufacturers like Honda and Toyota. While it is mostly marketing but their products are better in terms of quality. I know I’ll get flack for saying that but let’s not mix up product quality with design/drivability 


Anyway, Mazda3/5 and Ford Focus uses the same 5 speed transmission. I tired to identify who supplies it but the closest thing I can find is that it is a Mazda in-house made unit (good and bad). While it sounds great but Mazda is not in the business of making transmissions! I rather a dedicated transmission supplier like JATCO (for example since we are talking Japanese here) supplied it. Mazda somehow deems theirs superior to the same thing on the Focus and SEAL the transmission case with gasket maker. Focus uses a traditional gasket! To be fair, the filters are "slightly" different in an insignificant way (IMO). That said, you can use the Focus transmission filter and gasket set. The thread above has more details. Unless you pay for specific service, no dealer is going to open the case to replace the filter. It’s not hard but it takes time and it opens them up to a can of worms.


NOTE: Take the mileage numbers below with a grain of salt b/c I have NO IDEA how you drive/use your car!!!!
At 36K, I HIGHLY recommend at a minimum do a ~3.5 bottle drain and refill -like yesterday. Personally I do not like doing a drain/refill but do understand that this is the easiest approach. In this case, I would recommend ALL Mazda5 owners to start doing this at 20-25K IF you are a city type user, slightly higher if you are highway. I would prefer and really recommend doing a full flush no later than 40-45K mark. Drop the pan and replace the filter if you can or add an auxiliary filter. Again, take the numbers with a huge grain of salt. If you are doing a drain/fill, I’d say stick with OE fluid to avoid compatibly issues. One member here mixed Amsoil with old OE fluid and report burnt smell. I’m running full Amsoil with new filter and cleaned up the gunk and it is freaking fantastic!
 
Thanks...

markuszoom5 - I noticed you tend to post all your threads in the general area. May I suggest you post thread's in the appropriate section. This will get help yourself and others see/search for similar concerns/issues.

Not sure if you've seen this thread but you may find it helpful.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...-on-the-Mz5!&p=6166067&viewfull=1#post6166067

No, mileage alone does not dictate condition. Like all things, it is a combination of things but the #1 killer is heat, which is a common killer of the engine and all things made up of moving metal parts. All HWY mileage is not a bad thing and is a reason newer used cars with high mileage is better than an older car with low mileage (generalizing here). Think of it this way, when you move from stop sign/stop light to the next, your auto shifted from 1-2-3-2-1. Those short burst of traffic from 1-2-1 is the worst. Image it doing this thousands of times = wear and tear. It is the fluids job to protect it and the filters job to catch the ferrous particles. You can also add an external supplemental ATF oil filter that you simply put in-line of the ATF oil flow. On the Honda vs Mazda question, Honda users better comments throughout their cars. Things like seat fabrics, interior plastics, panel thickness, FLUIDS (Honda actually uses damn good throughout) are all better on what I call 1st tier Japanese manufacturers like Honda and Toyota. While it is mostly marketing but their products are better in terms of quality. I know Ill get flack for saying that but lets not mix up product quality with design/drivability 


Anyway, Mazda3/5 and Ford Focus uses the same 5 speed transmission. I tired to identify who supplies it but the closest thing I can find is that it is a Mazda in-house made unit (good and bad). While it sounds great but Mazda is not in the business of making transmissions! I rather a dedicated transmission supplier like JATCO (for example since we are talking Japanese here) supplied it. Mazda somehow deems theirs superior to the same thing on the Focus and SEAL the transmission case with gasket maker. Focus uses a traditional gasket! To be fair, the filters are "slightly" different in an insignificant way (IMO). That said, you can use the Focus transmission filter and gasket set. The thread above has more details. Unless you pay for specific service, no dealer is going to open the case to replace the filter. Its not hard but it takes time and it opens them up to a can of worms.


NOTE: Take the mileage numbers below with a grain of salt b/c I have NO IDEA how you drive/use your car!!!!
At 36K, I HIGHLY recommend at a minimum do a ~3.5 bottle drain and refill -like yesterday. Personally I do not like doing a drain/refill but do understand that this is the easiest approach. In this case, I would recommend ALL Mazda5 owners to start doing this at 20-25K IF you are a city type user, slightly higher if you are highway. I would prefer and really recommend doing a full flush no later than 40-45K mark. Drop the pan and replace the filter if you can or add an auxiliary filter. Again, take the numbers with a huge grain of salt. If you are doing a drain/fill, Id say stick with OE fluid to avoid compatibly issues. One member here mixed Amsoil with old OE fluid and report burnt smell. Im running full Amsoil with new filter and cleaned up the gunk and it is freaking fantastic!

Sorry about posting in general section, that is really the only one I read. It's so hard to find anything new in the subsections, but I will start from now on. Also, I made an appt with the dealer to have a flush Saturday. I do not want to do drain/fill yet as I am still under powertrain, and extended warranty. But I will be at 60k. Flush is supposed to get out 99% of all fluid. I am excited to see the new color when they do it. I will take pics. And also inwant to see if there will be any difference. Hopefully, they will not screw it up. So we will see.
 
If you are really interested in the condition of the fluid, you can take an ATF sample and send it to one of those oil analysis places.
 
If you are really interested in the condition of the fluid, you can take an ATF sample and send it to one of those oil analysis places.
great point! Blackstone labs, too late for me but someone do it and report back! :D
 
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How big of a sample do they need? I'm getting ready to do mine and would love to know what the "real" condition of my blackened and stinky fluid is.
 
How big of a sample do they need? I'm getting ready to do mine and would love to know what the "real" condition of my blackened and stinky fluid is.

its a small sample, like half-pint or something like that. they will send you a sample kit for free if you want to know what it looks like.
 
How big of a sample do they need? I'm getting ready to do mine and would love to know what the "real" condition of my blackened and stinky fluid is.
Big thumbs up for volunteering :)

Oil collection kits are FREE and it’s $25 per analysis OR you can buy a package for cheaper.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php



I will sample my Amsoil after 30-40K. Hopefully someone here using Castrol or Valvoline IMV (ideally from a full flush, not mixing drain-n-fill b/c that’s inconsistent) can also do this.
 
Good deal! That seems like really cheap insurance/piece of mind. I am sure I'm overthinking this whole process, but I really want to get as much of the fluid out of the trans as I can in one shot. I have a suction gun and was planning on pulling the cooler lines to get the fluid from there as well. I know it is impossible to get ALL the fluid (torque converter probably holds what, a quart?) but doing the drain/fill/drive/repeat thing gives me the willies.
 
Well I did a flush at the Mazda Dealer this AM @ 8. They were done in 1 hour. The fluid previously was really brown and smelled like somebody let one loose after the Chinese buffet. Well the new fluid looks nice and light red, with a slight pinkish hue. The car does drive slightly different. It shifts smooth like butter, and is shifts a little faster. maybe I am just imagining it, I don't know. So far so good. I do recommend the flush, it was $189 and I did not have to make myself dirty. Now I will keep checking every 5k to see how the color changes. I had 36500 miles when I did it.
 
Also, wanted to add one more thing about tranny flushes. I am assuming that just like all my other auto trans cars, the MZ5 also has a transmission filter which collects dirt. Well, Mazda does not specify if that needs to be changed. I did make sure that they put the right fluid in also. It's 0000-77-112E-01, and also says Type M5 Fluid for Mazda. This is not Mercon V, it's M-V 5, which is not the same fluid. It has a different consistency. Mercon V and other fluids can apparently damage your transmission in MZ5. So I wounder why people are putting other fluids in? I know that Fords and some Mazdas (Tribute and Truck used to take Mercon V). MZ2,3,5,6 all use M-V 5 and nothing else as I was told by the mechanic. They even have a TSB warning techs to use the correct one. Maybe that is why many times people get bad results after a flush instead of improvement. Any comments???
 
... So I wounder why people are putting other fluids in? ...

For me, I since the original OEM fluid didn't last very long - I'd rather use another approved synthetic fluid that is easily available.

For Hondas, the official line is that machine power flushes are not recommended since they push debris where it normally doesn't go and can cause problems. This probably can apply to Mazda too. It appears that there are several uses of the word "flush". It can mean a "power machine" flush, or a total fluid replacement by draining & refilling. "Power" flushes can cause problems. Total fluid replacement flushes - by draining or using pump shouldn' t have problems.
 
Also, wanted to add one more thing about tranny flushes. I am assuming that just like all my other auto trans cars, the MZ5 also has a transmission filter which collects dirt. Well, Mazda does not specify if that needs to be changed. I did make sure that they put the right fluid in also. It's 0000-77-112E-01, and also says Type M5 Fluid for Mazda. This is not Mercon V, it's M-V 5, which is not the same fluid. It has a different consistency. Mercon V and other fluids can apparently damage your transmission in MZ5. So I wounder why people are putting other fluids in? I know that Fords and some Mazdas (Tribute and Truck used to take Mercon V). MZ2,3,5,6 all use M-V 5 and nothing else as I was told by the mechanic. They even have a TSB warning techs to use the correct one. Maybe that is why many times people get bad results after a flush instead of improvement. Any comments???

They aren't that different. Look here: http://goo.gl/7sTz4U

The list of applications includes both, but here's the catch: Each spec has to allow for some range of fluid requirement like viscosity at X temperature and such. AMSOIL can make a fluid that falls into each window of every spec listed and guarantee performance. BUT some specs have no overlapping windows, so if you see certain specs listed on the same bottle, you can go ahead and call BS... it's why AMSOIL makes 2 fluids. There is a chance a Mercon V fluid wouldn't meet the M-V spec, and that could cause poor shift performance, unevenness in lockup, poor behavior during warmup, etc. So while they are right, it's not as bad as they'd have you believe.

Example:
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I am assuming if you keep up with regular tranny fluid flushes, that is every 30k miles, you might never have to replace this filter. But I don't know, as even the dealer refuses to touch it unless there is a problem. However, for example Honda dealer refuses to do a flush, but only will do a $40 drain and fill, which probably only drains like 50% of the fluid. And also I used to do my tranny filter on my Alero I owned and it only cost $25. This thing is too expensive but maybe that is why it lasts longer. Don't know...
 
I am assuming if you keep up with regular tranny fluid flushes, that is every 30k miles, you might never have to replace this filter. But I don't know, as even the dealer refuses to touch it unless there is a problem. However, for example Honda dealer refuses to do a flush, but only will do a $40 drain and fill, which probably only drains like 50% of the fluid. And also I used to do my tranny filter on my Alero I owned and it only cost $25. This thing is too expensive but maybe that is why it lasts longer. Don't know...
Well, think about it this way. If you change motor oil every 1,000 miles (not factoring in the quality of the oil) can you get away with never having to replace the oil filter? The oil and oil filter are two different things that server different purposes. Replacing helps prolong the other but the limit is unknow. I guess for a typical owner who turn over their car ~100K, it would be fine.

The oil’s purpose is to lubricate moving metal parts while keeping them cool. Moving metal parts still produces ferrous particles, which the filter collects. This will apply until someone invents an oil that does not wear at all and why a quality fluid provides better protection. This applies to the motor, transmission, and differential; the exception being that manuals and differentials have less complex moving parts so there’s no need for large quantity of fluids or filter. The missing link in your though is that your assume the floating particles will come out when it gets drained. What you did not consider is that the fluid coming out the drain hole has already passed through the filter.

OTOH, now that I think about it, (purely IMHO based on my observations) flushing the fluid from the cooler outlet (or suction from top) gives the added advantage of extracting “dirty” fluid before it passes through the filter! The inlet and outlet are up high, way before the filter and catch pan below. Something to consider for you ardent drain and fill fans.


Yeah, the OE filter is crazy expensive for such a simple device, which is simply a plastic box (OE seem to have some shiny/metal aspect to it, which the aftermarkets don’t have) with a filtering media inside. You can find high quality aftermarket replacements for 1/3 of that price including a gasket that fit the Focus. What I wanted to share is that this item is showing as a “maintenance” item, which I have never seem before and I don’t think most know what to do with.

EDIT: The application guide is only for +'08 autos since that is when the new 5 sp auto was introduced. The '06-'07 is a different 4sp auto box so this filter may not apply and have no idea what that is like.
 
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Yea I agree with you, but do like the flush because it takes out most of the gunk with the fluid before it goes to the filter, rather than drain/fill method. Also it replaces 98% of fluid, more importantly drains the torque conv. Other than that I wish I had time to do the drain with pan drop and filter change like I did on my previous cars.
 
About drain-and-fill: to do it properly, one should do a drain and fill, drive about 100 miles, do it a 2nd time, followed by a 3rd time about 100 miles later. That way, the fluid has a chance to mingle, and you are diluting the old stuff over and over. In reality, the 3X drain-n-fill will only remove a little over half the old fluid, but getting the gunk out of the torque converter is the primary result, and if done often enough, no need to worry about old fluid remaining inside the tranny.
 
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