Lewis7789 MS6 GT build thread

A nugget of knowledge from my Speed6 days...

Aj is right about the front sway upgrade will add understeer.

Back about 4 years ago it was track and autox proven that doing a springs/coilover swap and rear sway gave the perfect setup. Stock the car had understeer. If you add lowering springs or a coilover setup made for the Speed6, you'd get oversteer. Once you added an upgraded rear sway, you'd have a more balanced setup.

Now if you go with a higher spring rate, you may need to upgrade the front sway as well as the rear.
 
I'm not sure how that makes much sense. You're saying if you lower the MS6 you'll get oversteer, then add a stiffer rear sway bar would give you a more balanced feel, but the bigger rear sway should add even more oversteer, not understeer. Unless you simply worded it incorrectly.

Regardless, I'm pretty happy with the current suspension set up so I'll leave it as is.
 
Lewis7789 said:
I'm not sure how that makes much sense. You're saying if you lower the MS6 you'll get oversteer, then add a stiffer rear sway bar would give you a more balanced feel, but the bigger rear sway should add even more oversteer, not understeer. Unless you simply worded it incorrectly.

Regardless, I'm pretty happy with the current suspension set up so I'll leave it as is.
Click to expand...

No, I didn't word it incorrectly.
 
Okay, then it still doesn't make sense. I don't see how installing coilovers would make a car oversteer, they shouldn't effect under or oversteer. Then adding a rear sway should increase oversteer, not make it more "balanced".
 
I agree with Evan. It's not necessarily true that adding lowering springs or coilovers will change the balance of the car at all. It would depend on the spring rates. I suppose you could assume that kits designed for the MS6 would be setup to improve the overall balance of the car but again that's a generalization that isn't always true.

And, all other things equal adding a bigger rear bar would make the car more loose...

Evan you have the correct idea. When it comes to suspension, drive it, make a change if you think there is something that you don't like about how it handles, and then reassess. If you like it as-is, there's nothing more to do. :)
 
Curious.

These thoughts raised a couple questions in my mind. First, what is the ratio of front spring rate to rear spring rate on the stock suspension, and likewise of the coils? If the ratio favors the rear more, it'll induce oversteer. But if they're front stiff, understeer is more prevalent.

Well... I guess only one question. But yeah, that's where my head is at right now.
 
Well I know when I was doing coilover research they were all higher in the front than rear and the BC's seemed to have the higher/stiffest spring rates, thus why I went with them. I can't see anyone putting out coilovers with higher rear spring rates for the MS6.

And a little auto-x update video from this past Sunday. Car performed great and I had a freaking blast running and hanging out with my Mazda friends. Thanks again for letting me borrow your GoPro and for setting it all up for me, Will!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3M1Brub8aTM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I can't wait to try with my slicks next year or whenever I get some 17x8 wheels to mount them up to. My goal is to get down lower near Evan #2 and Patrick.
 
Right, I guess I didn't word it correctly. Any coilovers for street cars will be higher front than rear. Here's what I was describing below:

I'm making up numbers because a) I don't know the real numbers, and b) this is just to be used as an example.

Stock (F/R)
200 / 125 Front bias = 1.6 Moderate understeer

Coilover X (F/R)
400 / 250 Front Bias = 1.6 Theoretically the same feel as stock

Coilover Y (F/R)
400 / 200 Front Bias = 2 Theoretically additional understeer

Coilover Z (F/R)
400 / 300 Front Bias = 1.33 Theoretically less understeer than stock


These were just the thoughts running thru my head based on what I understand from messing with spring rates on Forza. LULZ.
 
And I completely agree with you there, Phen.

Pics from this past weekend. Thanks Fam for taking them!





 
I didn't want to say anything until I received the package but I just scored a great deal thanks to Patrick for sending the FB FS ad my way.

Hawk HP+ pads (f/r) and Duralast blank rotors (f/r) all brand new for $125 shipped. Everything priced out new should be $383. Whaaa?



And the old girl just crossed 150k miles this morning on the way to work. Original motor, clutch and turbo. The previous owner must have taken great care with this car. And I still love it everyday I leave work and see it sitting there waiting for a ride. Or in the morning when the garage door opens and I see dat ass. I love this car.

 
Lewis7789 said:
Okay, then it still doesn't make sense. I don't see how installing coilovers would make a car oversteer, they shouldn't effect under or oversteer. Then adding a rear sway should increase overstee, not make it more "balanced".
Click to expand...

Spring rates and sway bar's are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to a "balanced" car. King pin inclination, steering axis inclination, anti dive, included angle, scrub radius, instant center, bump steer, swing arm length and camber change, laden tire location, caster, camber, toe, camber change during dive, suspension deflection.... I can keep going if you'd like. All of those should be taken into account when properly up radin suspension

My point is AJ may be right under the correct circumstances. Theirs so much to into account
 
you are welcome sir, and I find it funny that the awd veteran (to me) wants to be down with times near me lol. But I think its just because I have a bigger ego and hate losing more lol. Hence me buying different suspension and brakes so I can do everything later. I'm still pissed and jealous over those brakes!
 
I did another auto-x this past weekend and am getting better and better controlling Fatty. Still waiting for official times so I'll post those later. My GF took the day off work Sunday morning to ride along, she had a blast. She was laughing the entire time on my first run. Haha. She took a quick video of my second run. This was the first time I used the 2-step and oh man does it help. The car launches great.

Skip to about 13 seconds in:

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid37.photobucket.com/albums/e98/Lewis7789/Mazdaspeed6/1674_zpseef8fbbe.mp4">

Waiting for my October quarterly bonus to buy a Fidanza flywheel and ATP downpipe from CR3 Motorsports. Been looking into a FMIC too since the car will mostly be used for auto-x and the TMIC is just getting heat soaked like crazy. But I'm planning on swapping the motor in October and selling the current 150k motor if anyone wants to build one. I have no intentions for a big turbo or anymore boost than the current 19.5 target.
 
Last edited:
Damn you and your AWD. After you mentioned the two step on Sunday, i launched from about 3500 rpm on one of my runs and just roasted the tires haha.
 
So I'm planning on swapping the new motor in late October (probably 19th-20th). I've gathering up gaskets and any replacement parts and am getting some help from the guys on MSF.

One of the things I'll be getting is a downpipe. But I'm not sure which to get. A lot of people seem to run the M2 (eBay) downpipe for $175 with good results, however one friend said it didn't fit in his MS6. And a few friends have eBay dp's on their MS3's that received some additional welding before installing and are still running well. Since a DP is a pita to install I would rather do it once and not have to worry about it so I'm thinking about going with a CorkSport DP instead which cost twice as much $350 + shipping for a better piece of mind and a divorced wastegate. Thoughts?

edit- and I would like to upgrade to a FMIC and the CX Racing eBay kit looks pretty appealing. Too much heat saok during auto-x'es...
 
Last edited:
Haha, you told me go eBay in our Google chat. Make up your mind, woman!

CR3 can get me an ATP downpipe but it's still more than the CS DP and I've always had good luck with CS.
 
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