What causes rust in some P5s but not others?

Live in winnipeg and I've been noticing this the past few years. My 03 has both rear wheel wells rusting, hood rust, and rear hatch rust. Other P5s share my car's faults as well. However, it almost seems 40% (just me guessing) end up rust free.

Maybe I'm not understand rust correctly, but I only thought it was a more Atlantic/mid-west problem and didn't really affect dry summer/winter climates like my city.

So what determines which P5s get rust?
 
If all factors are the same (ie. you all live in the same city) things like parking in a heated garage creates a non-stop melt & freeze cycle.
If that "ledge" around the well wheels collects all kinds of dusty dirt, it holds water for days after it gets wet, mix in some salt and you've got a chemical reaction. (I caked mine with grease)
Don't forget, some may not be under coated.
Mileage and hours on the road.
A hot car driving in snow or rain, some people avoid those weather conditions.

I stole ZHY's pic from his thread,... hope he doesn't mind
nc1dau_zps3e408cba.jpg


I stole this pic too,... It's what the first picture turns into without rust proofing.
3219646527_1dfa03affd_zpsd1b5fb42.jpg



Rust Links:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...Rustproofing-amp-Undercoating-is-it-necessary

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123727488-Re-P5-rust-problems

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123650598-Rustproofing-for-the-5

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123628351-Rust
 
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People that don't wash and wax their cars get rust and clear coat peel. Of course I'm talking out of my ass here but I'd say its a good guess
 
no problem pcb!
and OP, if youre a chemist like I am, you shoud know that rust is aluminium oxide forming (Al2O3), and alkalin ions such as Ca+2, Fe+3, Mg+2 are catalists in oxidations (notice I mentionned calcium?!)

few tricks not to get well rust is
1- Rustproof once a year
2- wash your car often, even in winter!
3- Grease your wells few times in the winter (Vaseline should work)
4- give your car a thick layer of wax right before winter strikes

I was retarded enough not to do either those 4 this winter, and my 4 wheel arches are rusted, as well as my door corners. You can alwais bring your car to a body shop... but that wouldn't be DIY right? we're here to fix our own cars! Im gonna do a DIY walkthrough on how to remove rust & bring back the original color this summer, as well with some pictures before/after.. basically what you gotta do is bring down your arch to bare metal, body filler, prime, then color-match with a can of paint you had matched to your cars color in a specialized shop (NAPA mixes my sunlight silver, 22v)

good luck!
 
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Here's what wikipedia says about rust:

Rust is composed of iron oxides. In colloquial usage, the term is applied to red oxides, formed by the reaction of iron and oxygen in the presence of water or air moisture. Other forms of rust exist, like the result of reactions between iron and chloride in an environment deprived of oxygen – rebar used in underwater concrete pillars is an example – which generates green rust. Several forms of rust are distinguishable visually and by spectroscopy, and form under different circumstances.[1] Rust consists of hydrated iron(III) oxides Fe2O3nH2O and iron(III) oxide-hydroxide FeO(OH)Fe(OH)3.
Given sufficient time, oxygen, and water, any iron mass will eventually convert entirely to rust and disintegrate. Surface rust is flaky and friable, and provides no protection to the underlying iron, unlike the formation of patina on copper surfaces. Rusting is the common term for corrosion of iron and its alloys, such as steel. Many other metals undergo equivalent corrosion, but the resulting oxides are not commonly called rust.

Google define:friable friable
/ˈfrīəbəl/
Adjective
Easily crumbled: "the soil was friable between her fingers".
Synonyms
brittle - fragile - crumbly - frail - crisp - short


I thought it had something with what grows in fields,...
Anyway



Originally Posted by zhy
no problem pcb!
and OP, if youre a chemist like I am, you shoud know that rust is aluminium oxide forming (Al2O3), and alkalin ions such as Ca+2, Fe+3, Mg+2 are catalists in oxidations (notice I mentionned calcium?!) You forgot regular salt sodium chloride NaCl

few tricks not to get well rust is
1- Rustproof once a year
2- wash your car often, even in winter!
3- Grease your wells few times in the winter (Vaseline should work)
4- give your car a thick layer of wax right before winter strikes

I was retarded enough not to do either those 4 this winter, and my 4 wheel arches are rusted, as well as my door corners. You can alwais bring your car to a body shop... but that wouldn't be DIY right? we're here to fix our own cars! Im gonna do a DIY walkthrough on how to remove rust & bring back the original color this summer, as well with some pictures before/after.. basically what you gotta do is bring down your arch to bare metal, body filler, prime, then color-match with a can of paint you had matched to your cars color in a specialized shop (NAPA mixes my sunlight silver, 22v)

good luck!

I'm looking forward to a how-to,... I did some rust last summer and did ok up until the application of the paint (Clasic Red A3E Car Quest mixed it up for $20)

It looks like shyte


SUNP0129_zps26fd5d11.jpg


SUNP0128_zps7748305f.jpg



You can't really see it in the pic but it's all wrinkled and crappy (I kept spraying during that 1/2 - 24 hour no-spray window)
I need to delegate that final step to a more qualified technician.
Your Message
 
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Of those that I've seen, they all seem to rust in the same locations. As others have mentioned, the amount of rust probably has more to do with the conditions the car has been driven in, the amount of washing and waxing, Undercoating, Etc.

I live in Wisconsin, have parked it outside for years, drive 25K miles per year. I have it washed, and wax it every time there is a sunny day. 230K miles, and It still looks great, but if you get close enough, I still have the beginnings of rust in all the places that everybody else has it.

Our cars are prone to rust more so than other brands that I have owned. It is still more fun to drive than anything else I have owned.




Live in winnipeg and I've been noticing this the past few years. My 03 has both rear wheel wells rusting, hood rust, and rear hatch rust. Other P5s share my car's faults as well. However, it almost seems 40% (just me guessing) end up rust free.

Maybe I'm not understand rust correctly, but I only thought it was a more Atlantic/mid-west problem and didn't really affect dry summer/winter climates like my city.

So what determines which P5s get rust?
 
My 'o2P5 is suffering from the usual cancer. I was wondering if anyone knows if there are replacement body parts available (preferably in Canada) for the usual cancer spots on these cars. My real bad spots are the rear fenders near the rear door (dog leg?) and the front driver and pass. door corners. I have a MIG welder and would like to freshen up the exterior of my ride to get another couple years out of it. Any links would be appreciated.
 
This is what my car looked like last summer after I sanded everything, took off as much rust off as possible, and re painted the quarter panels (Only have a pic of the left rear)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/29083024.jpg/



and now this is what it looks like...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/39705584.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/35582783.jpg/

Come summer I will redo everything again to get rid of the rust once more. I basically did what zhy said and it wil be the same process again. Unfortunatly I will probably have to repeat this process every summer now as it has spread everywhere and I think rust proofing and greasing isn't going to do anything at this point ( I may be wrong, correct me is so). Shame it wasn't taken care of before I got it...
 
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only way to properly fix rust is to remove it( cut metal and replace with new metal), unfortunately by the time you see it it is too late. The rails and underside of our cars will also rot out quickly and grow weaker.
 
My 'o2P5 is suffering from the usual cancer. I was wondering if anyone knows if there are replacement body parts available (preferably in Canada) for the usual cancer spots on these cars. My real bad spots are the rear fenders near the rear door (dog leg?) and the front driver and pass. door corners. I have a MIG welder and would like to freshen up the exterior of my ride to get another couple years out of it. Any links would be appreciated.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?a=G-mazda

2002 MAZDA PROTEGE5 2.0L L4 : Body-Exterior : Wheel Arch Panel Price
SHERMAN Part # 3433584
Rear Wheel Arch; Right

CAD$43.90

They only have the right side available ??? That's from the US though,... but it may very well still be cheaper.

Body-Exterior : Wheel Arch Panel
SHERMAN Part # 3433584
Rear Wheel Arch; Right
CAD$43.90 CAD$43.90
Subtotal CAD$43.90
Country: Postal Code:
Shipping: from United States CAD$81.58
Total CAD$125.48
How Did You Hear About Us?

Wow,... $82 for shipping You'd have to order a lot of other things along with it to make that worth while.
 
This is what my car looked like last summer after I sanded everything, took off as much rust off as possible, and re painted the quarter panels (Only have a pic of the left rear)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/29083024.jpg/



and now this is what it looks like...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/39705584.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/35582783.jpg/

Come summer I will redo everything again to get rid of the rust once more. I basically did what zhy said and it wil be the same process again. Unfortunatly I will probably have to repeat this process every summer now as it has spread everywhere and I think rust proofing and greasing isn't going to do anything at this point ( I may be wrong, correct me is so). Shame it wasn't taken care of before I got it...

wow...

did you seal off the seams inside the wheel well last summer? the wheel wells rust from the inside out...right at the lip of the fenders, there are a few layers of metal pressed together...the problem is moisture getting inside of that, and staying there...

the rust then forms 'under' the paint...which is why yours came back so quickly...

I just did some rust maintenance on my front passenger well...i had a seam weld break through in 2 places (both holes about half the size of a dime)...I filled the holes with quick steel, used naval jelly to eat as much rust as i could before that...then used white rusted metal primer, then coated the absolute s*** out of the entire wheel will with 3m rubberized spray...that stuff is like straight petroleum, if water gets back in there through that...its over for all of us haha...

I'm thinking you'll have much better luck if you find a way to dig out all the loose rust inside of the fenders, just inside the wheel wells, then seal it off in a similar way that i did...quick steel wouldn't be ideal for that, as you'd need way too much of it...but a can of body filler after you've dissolved as much residual rust as you can...then prime that, and use an entire can of rubberized spray around that seem, and all over the inside of the well...the 3M stuff also drys to look nearly identical to whatever undercoating is already in there, i'm actually surprised with how 'professional' my work ended up looking haha...the rubberized stuff is basically like permanent grease, it won't wash off to any degree once its sets up (which took mine nearly 36 hours........)...but water hits it and beads right off like its a layer of cooking oil...

i'll know in another year if it worked though...
 
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wow...

did you seal off the seams inside the wheel well last summer? the wheel wells rust from the inside out...right at the lip of the fenders, there are a few layers of metal pressed together...the problem is moisture getting inside of that, and staying there...

the rust then forms 'under' the paint...which is why yours came back so quickly...

I just did some rust maintenance on my front passenger well...i had a seam weld break through in 2 places (both holes about half the size of a dime)...I filled the holes with quick steel, used naval jelly to eat as much rust as i could before that...then used white rusted metal primer, then coated the absolute s*** out of the entire wheel will with 3m rubberized spray...that stuff is like straight petroleum, if water gets back in there through that...its over for all of us haha...

I'm thinking you'll have much better luck if you find a way to dig out all the loose rust inside of the fenders, just inside the wheel wells, then seal it off in a similar way that i did...quick steel wouldn't be ideal for that, as you'd need way too much of it...but a can of body filler after you've dissolved as much residual rust as you can...then prime that, and use an entire can of rubberized spray around that seem, and all over the inside of the well...the 3M stuff also drys to look nearly identical to whatever undercoating is already in there, i'm actually surprised with how 'professional' my work ended up looking haha...the rubberized stuff is basically like permanent grease, it won't wash off to any degree once its sets up (which took mine nearly 36 hours........)...but water hits it and beads right off like its a layer of cooking oil...

i'll know in another year if it worked though...

The job I did last summer was very basic, I basically started by grinding and sanding and trying to get rid off as much rust as possible, the only problem was that there was so much, I just couldn't sand or grind it all off. The picture with the right rear quarter panel, you can see there's a chunk missing, last year that same chunk was missing on the left rear, so I bondo-ed that spot and then sanded to get a smooth surface. (hence why the left rear isn't as bad in that area now) The holes that remained on both sides after sanding and grinding I covered with red putty, and once I let everything dry I just sprayed on a couple layers of rust converter and then painted over. These were the basic steps I found online of DIY.

This 3m rubberized spray you mentioned, is there a specific name or brand? I want to go and pick some up so I use it on the upcoming job.
 
Has anyone tried using plastidip in the wheel wells to make a barrier from the water getting through to the metal?
 
I just cake the grease on it all over,.... messy but worked for me
 
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Anything you got,... use bacon grease if you have to,... just smear the stuff everywhere,... around the wheel wells especially,... just go ahead and make a mess.
The grease I've had sitting around for a long time gets little puddles of oil in it,... that's good,... It liquefies and seeps into crevices and in some cases crevasses.

I bought this stuff too at TSC for $5 a can on sale,.. I bought 6 cans you can cover more area with a spray can. It's nice and tacky, like a cross between oil and grease.

Sorry about the sideways picture,.. they did sell it to me vertical

SUNP0147_zpsd1c8171b.jpg


They also finally have PCB blaster at Canadian Tire

SUNP0151_zpsf613547e.jpg
 
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The job I did last summer was very basic, I basically started by grinding and sanding and trying to get rid off as much rust as possible, the only problem was that there was so much, I just couldn't sand or grind it all off. The picture with the right rear quarter panel, you can see there's a chunk missing, last year that same chunk was missing on the left rear, so I bondo-ed that spot and then sanded to get a smooth surface. (hence why the left rear isn't as bad in that area now) The holes that remained on both sides after sanding and grinding I covered with red putty, and once I let everything dry I just sprayed on a couple layers of rust converter and then painted over. These were the basic steps I found online of DIY.

This 3m rubberized spray you mentioned, is there a specific name or brand? I want to go and pick some up so I use it on the upcoming job.

Any auto parts store should carry the product i'm talking about...3M is the brand, but they have TONS of different divisions ..I got mine at autozone, and it was 3M Auto Professional Grade Rubberized Undercoating...its not cheap, its about twice the cost of some other generic products on the shelf right next to it (this was $11.50 a can, enough for roughly 2 wheel wells)...but 3M's auto body repair stuff is always regarded as some of the best...

And as far as everyone saying 'what type of grease should i use?'; that is basically what this stuff is...its just grease that will cure and hold itself on there...The stuff that comes out of this can seems just about as toxic as something could be...it smells like it'll catch on fire just by looking at it incorrectly...

but in either case...once it dries, i really can't think of anything that would work better for sealing off metal from moisture...I followed the directions on the can, but had trouble finding the exact products to use...the rubberized spray is the final step in rust prevention...you start with a rust dissolver (i used loc-tite naval jelly), body filler (if applicable, i used quick steel in my case), rusted metal primer (i used some rustoleum something or other)...and finish with this rubber gunk...

Honestly...after a few days of drying...it looks identical to what Mazda puts under the car to begin with...the good thing is i can spray this stuff in the countless areas that mazda decided to skip...
 
I just cake the grease on it all over,.... messy but worked for me

This, and a can of corrosion free will do wonders in my opinion. I've been doing this since I got my car about a year ago and every month or 2 I would clean up my fenders just to see how they're doing. Everything still looks the same and we use salt on our roads here in Toronto.

I also packed grease from the inside of the fender and where the lip is. Messy as hell when doing it but you can't see much after. It's well worth it everyone with a Mazda should do this
 

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