oil consumption ?

J

joe944

porschefreak
Contributor
:
2002 mazda protege 5
Had my belts done at around 120 or 125k. Now have 145k. Car has been bullet proof and well maintained.
For the most part I have run mobile one 5-30 since I bought the car with 28k on it.
Car burns on about 1 1/2 quarts at between 7.5k oil changes.
Color is as good as can be expected fir the age. Dark after a while, but not black.
Last night I gave it a little push out to the city-about 1 1/2 drive one way. Checked the dipstick before and after.
Level on the dipstick was fine before going and had been 1k since last topping off.
This morning it was down about 1/3 of the way. There also seemed to be a bit of oil that was sprayed about or leaked out over onto where the external belt wraps. Car does not drip oil on my driveway and it does not seem to be leaking out form the motor from any visible place?
Anyone know what is going on?
 
Sounds like valve seals to me. I've got 210,000 km (130,000 miles) and don't burn a drop of oil. I change my oil (and filter) every 5000 km though (3,100 miles) (I change it on every even 5k on the odometer so I don't forget). If you wait too long between oil changes, it's like running liquid sandpaper through your engine,... it wears everything. I just use the cheaper oil to offset the cost of frequent oil changes. I've started using 10w30 for the summer.
I think cheap oil changed twice as often as expensive oil is better,... for about the same cost.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123827267-2003-Protege5-problems
 
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I was hoping that would not be the case and did see the other thread.
Aren't valve seals something that should have been replaced with the timing belts?
Definitely will take your advice on the oil in more ways than one.
 
kind of a dual thread, but if it is the seals,
is that something that should have been done with the timing belts?
is this major problem or just a burden?
with it leaking or burning I will definitely switch to conventional 10-30.
is that pcv valve as easy to change as taking the old one off an putting a new one one? kind of like spark plug wires?
 
Doing the valve seals isn't really part of the timing belt job (not like the water pump anyway),... It's just that your valve cover is off anyway so it's a good time to do it. I'm pretty sure it's a job you do when there's an issue (like burning oil) not regular maintenance.

Generally people think they're saving money by delaying oil changes but they don't consider the expensive repairs later on down the road. (I feel the same way about my annual rust proofing for $125. I live in Canada, but even people here don't want to spend the money,.. every car I've owned was taken by rust,... gas tanks, gas and brake lines, body panels,... etc. etc.)
 
I think I told him to change the seals which has me freaking out right now. I will have to check my records in the morning. Logged on to post and saw the other thread and immediately started freaking out.
Funny on the oil. My high school auto shop teacher 20 years ago swore by changing the oil every 3k.
Thanks!
 
I haven't done valve seals (yet anyway) but I think it's fairly involved job. I'm pretty sure the cam shafts have to come off. (it's a good time to check and replace any valve shims while the cams are off,.. (valve clearance adjustment))

A lot of people here talk about burning oil,.... most just keep topping it up and don't worry about it too much,... I suppose it could get so bad that you could foul your plugs and cat and maybe not pass your smog test.

Finding and fixing a leak may be a simpler thing to do,... maybe even "engine stop leak".

The PCV is super easy to do,.. it's plug & play. It's probably easier than opening your hood. (unless the big grommet had crumbled away)
 
I remember going into a Quaker State outlet once looking into gear oil. I said I can get a five gallon pail of gear oil for $50 at WalMart (the price at the time), then asked if it's better to use the cheap stuff and change it twice as often as one change of his good stuff,... he said to get the pail,... pretty good of him knowing he was losing a sale.

Looks like I'm really reaping the cost benefits now of doing regular maintenance. I drive like an old man too (I guess I actually am one) the harder you drive, the harder it is on every moving part of your car,... bearings, brakes, clutch, axles, piston rings, cam and crank bearings, seals, ball joints, tires, etc. etc. ,...
 
pcb said:
I haven't done valve seals (yet anyway) but I think it's fairly involved job. I'm pretty sure the cam shafts have to come off. (it's a good time to check and replace any valve shims while the cams are off,.. (valve clearance adjustment))- That is why I was freaking. Will need to go back an talk to the guy who did the job.

A lot of people here talk about burning oil,.... most just keep topping it up and don't worry about it too much,... I suppose it could get so bad that you could foul your plugs and cat and maybe not pass your smog test. - I replaced the plugs and wires about 5 or 10k ago. The wires were stuck in there. I will check that situation out tomorrow. Been 5 k since oil, so I will go ahead and do the oil with 10/30 conventional. But yet again I think I need to talk to the guy who did the belts. Didn't burn a drop before I had the belts done. Keep a quart in my trunk though, and just check it on occasion at the gas station. I guess if anything else now I know when to check it and how often.

Finding and fixing a leak may be a simpler thing to do,... maybe even "engine stop leak".

The PCV is super easy to do,.. it's plug & play. It's probably easier than opening your hood.- Cool. Was hoping to hear that. Found it a bit loose the other day. Took it off. All in tact. Just wanted to make sure that was the case.

Can't let this car die on me. Been too good to me.

Thanks a million.
Click to expand...
 
I didn't know you only just recently started losing oil,... that changes things. Burning oil is a progressive thing normally, so I'm leaning towards a leak now. It's quite possible that it only leaks and therefore drips when the engine is running so it may not leave much evidence in your driveway. He had the valve cover off so I'd start there looking for a leak. Wipe it down if it's too dirty to tell while looking for wet spots.
It could be a combination of both but I'd really look for a leak. Check your receipt if you find it to see if he replaced the valve cover gasket. He is supposed to use silicone gasket maker in the notches near the cam bearings when re installing the cover and if it leaks there I'm pretty sure it would leak into the timing belt area hidden from view and contaminate your new timing belt while it drains down inside.
 
Ouch! Yeah, he did replace the valve cover. I know that for sure. And actually, it started to burn/leak/idk a bit of oil around 105k. But that was a result of the valve cover if I am right. $800 later the car started to burn more oil. Guy pulled a bait and switch on my brake pads and tried talking me into caliper replacement.
? BBB, Take it out of his a**. Told the guy to fix the water pump, but he said it looked fine and did not do it. I am beginning to wonder if he even changed the belt at this point.
 
Replacing the water pump along with the timing belt is standard procedure,... They eventually wear out and start to leak then the whole timing belt procedure has to be repeated.

Finding any mechanic to trust is VERY hard to do,... it's part of the business. I had a friend who left the business along with his father because they were honest so couldn't make a go of it anymore.

I knew a guy that worked for a dealership and noticed a problem with somebodies car just before the warranty was up. His boss told him to not fix it and wait for the warranty to expire because they make more money if it's not a warranty repair. He did it anyway and was fired.

Your best defense is to make sure you know what you're talking about when you take your car in. They are way less likely to try to rip off an informed customer. This web site is your best defense.

I think it would be a great idea for a mechanic to have his shop on live webcam so you can watch them work,... It would bring in customers and reduce the cheating.
 
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As far as valve seals...That IS a pretty intense job...To guarantee doing it right, the head should be removed (as you can then check/clean the valves/stems and replace any other parts)...other than cams, head parts are not all that expensive...its getting to them thats the problem...

it is true you can replace everything but the valves without removing the head...some shops will do this by leaving the head installed on the block, and using a air adaptor in place of the spark plugs...the pressurized air will hold the valves in their seats while you remove everything from above...but this is not a full proof way to do the work, especially for a home mechanic...if air bleeds past the piston rings without you knowing it...the valves will drop into the chambers...and the little bit of time you saved was pointless...

also...without removing the valves entirely...you're only addressing part of the problem...its not just seals that can fail, the valve seats may need cleaned or machined...the valve stems may be scored (possible again from carbon build up), etc...and its very hard to properly install a valve seal in a perfectly clean nature without the head removed...

with the head off...its cake...everything can be cleaned easily, and any problematic parts can be quickly replaced...but without getting the valves completely out of the head, you'll never know what you're up against exactly...by FAR the hardest part of the job is removing and installing the head properly...but, imo, its the only way to make sure you're doing it right...
 
Am I correct in assuming that delayed oil changes can create a liquid sand paper that could grind away at the seals and cause them to start leaking??

Have you heard of the rope trick ???
You take the spark plugs out then stuff thin rope in the hole till its full then turn the crank to compress the rope gently to hold the valve in place.


P.S. I thought it was "fool proof", cause that's the way I work,... I suppose a fool can really help with providing full proof of anything.
 
Valve seals won't spray oil lol, they just smoke on cold starts.

Find out where it is leaking from and take a picture. An oil change is ok to do every 7500 miles if you use synthetic, if you use conventional it should be done 3-5k miles

If you're doing valve seals pull the head so that you can do a head gasket while you're there
 
^ Yea,... I read it on the forum here somewhere,... It makes sense. I like it's backwoodsy nature.
So would that be full proof or fool proof,... I'm leanin towards the fool end of things,... better use clean rope and leave a good handle left hanging out.
 
tweety2300 said:
Valve seals won't spray oil lol, they just smoke on cold starts.

Find out where it is leaking from and take a picture. An oil change is ok to do every 7500 miles if you use synthetic, if you use conventional it should be done 3-5k miles

If you're doing valve seals pull the head so that you can do a head gasket while you're there
Click to expand...

Going to change the pcv valve tomorrow as it is cheap and easy. will check the plugs as that is easy.
thought i would hold off on oil for now.
will try taking a pic, but yeah, i can not pin point an actual leak.
 
I had a GLC years ago that burned oil. I never bothered doing anything about it. The oil light would start to flicker when it needed more oil. That worked very good for me, if I forgot to check it, it would remind me just as it got below ADD on the dipstick.
 
Yep not the fsde lol, if your oil light comes on you might want to go ahead and order rod bearings
 
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