-gasp!- rav4??

I recently remembered that the 08+ RAV4 has a 3rd row option. It looks like their 2WD 4-banger is about the same on gas as the Mz5 5AT. Anyone out there have (or had) one that can give me some insight regarding a RAV4 vs. Mz5 driving/space/practicality showdown? The 5-seater is OK, as I expect its comparable to dropping the back 2 in the Mz5.

Yeah but would that third row option even be available on the 4cyl RAV4 models? Or would the third row option be available on any but the up-level "limited" models that cost $27,000 and up? for my $19,000 I'll take the Mazda5 and have the option of the stickshift.

Well, it is a Toyota, and even though I haven't driven a Rav4 in a while, I have driven plenty of Toyota's and would be willing to say that it's driving dynamics will fall considerably short compared to the what the 5 offers in handling and maneuverability.

I've actually sat in the third row of a RAV4 and its not a place to be if you have legs. It seems like a real afterthought and makes the third row in the 5 seem like a limo.

5zoom said:

I've actually sat in the third row of a RAV4 and its not a place to be if you have legs. It seems like a real afterthought and makes the third row in the 5 seem like a limo.

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That's pretty sad considering the RAV4 is Corolla-based the way the Mz5 is Mz3-based. They both weight about the same. Anyway, what I am investigating is finding a bit more room in rows 1 & 2, ability to carry 6+, and as small a difference in cost to fuel as possible. The Dodge Journey is a good jump in space (based off a midsize car instead of a compact car) but the Journey 4-banger is rated 19-25, which is funny, since its the same rating as the 5MT I have but my reality is 23 city and better hwy until you hit freeway speeds.

The Flex drops to 17 city and that is about as good as it gets for anything larger since they all have V6s. Thing is, going from MT to AT will kill my city mpg, and while currently I can expect to do better than rating city, when I go AT (wife's insistance) I will be dropping 2 mpg from rating for city, since the torque converter pretty much never locks up, so it is always bleeding power and therefor using more gas.

So in reality, that 19mpg 4-banger Journey becomes a 17 mpg vehicle max in my reality, while the Flex and anything else somewhat bigger/nicer become 16 mpg vehicles.

I realize most of you live in a suburban setting or at least can hit the freeway or highway to get around, but for us, its all stoplight-to-stoplight. We live life literally 1/2-mile at a time. The only time we get out of this is when we leave town, and currently we take the Volvo for those trips, so city mpg is the prime concern. My wife is beginning to think we should just get a std 5-seater and we would just not take it anytime we all go together. I really like the idea that each vehicle we own can pack everyone, so that we never have to be limited.

5zoom said:

I've actually sat in the third row of a RAV4 and its not a place to be if you have legs. It seems like a real afterthought and makes the third row in the 5 seem like a limo.

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It would help if you don't mind mentioning your height for comparision, or say someone in the range of x' x".

I've read a bit into the Rav4 with 3rd row from the Rav4 forum. Most say it is tight but those who actually have it say it is good for kids or a lifesaver situation, bearable for short trips with adults no taller than ~5'8". I think the Rav4 is a better option as a full time 5 seater with full trunk use and occasional/emergency 3rd row use, which btw makes the car a 7 seater over the Mz5’s 6 seats. Only thing holding me back is the lack of sliding doors and I dislike all Rav4 styling (co-worker has one).

Um the 3rd row of the 5 or Rondo or Orlando is not a place you want to be if you're not under 10 years of age, but in a pinch they'll do.

I'm 5'7" and I can tell you the 5 has more room than a RAV4 in the third row.

I like that a kid can just scoot between the 2nd row captain seats in the 5... you don't have to fold the seat down to access the 3rd row.
also the sliding doors are great in parking lots.

My concern with the Journey would be reliability issues. Dodge has never been known to make reliable cars.

Flex is a good car, very quiet and comfortable but it's a massive car. It's basically a lowered SUV (weighs as much as one).

If you want three row seating but want good fuel efficiency, consider a used Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna. The V6 version of the Odyssey is just as efficient as the Mazda 5.

cdnballer said:

My concern with the Journey would be reliability issues. Dodge has never been known to make reliable cars.

Flex is a good car, very quiet and comfortable but it's a massive car. It's basically a lowered SUV (weighs as much as one).

If you want three row seating but want good fuel efficiency, consider a used Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna. The V6 version of the Odyssey is just as efficient as the Mazda 5.

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Back to my very lengthy explanation from above:

I don't give a hoot about highway mileage. I only care about city mpgs. If I were to put 10,000 miles on the wife's vehicle in a year, 500-600 would be highway miles. The Flex and the Odyssey and ANY OTHER V6 multi-passenger transport will not return better than rated 17 mpg city (16 mpg user-verified, or MAYBE 18 mpg if you accelerate without using your gas pedal). I've seen it. You can use the torque from a V6 to keep a heavier vehicle moving once at speed, meaning that you can use the transmission and final drive to lower the rpms of the engine, and the torque will keep it at speed, whereas little naturally-aspirated 4-bangers need to tap the horsepower curve to keep the vehicle at speed, hence the higher rpms at freeway speeds. But you can't fool physics when accelerating. (well, I guess with a CVT you can, but nonetheless) From a stoplight to the speed limit, you use A LOT of gas. If you have 2L and 4 cylinders, you will use less than if you have 3L and 6 cylinders, which will use less than 4L/8 cylinders. Even if you had a 2000 lb car with a V6, you would still use more gas accelerating than a 3000 lb car with a 4-cyl.

I have a friend who bought a rav 4 new in 2011. It's a 4 banger with awd (though the awd doesn't kick in unless it's needed = good for gas mileage). We both, like you, drive 90% urban stop and go... she gets just a little worse gas mileage (not much between the two). She does covet my 5, though there isn't much technical difference in cargo capacities, the 5 just seems better packaged and offers a bit better utility. can't comment on it's 3rd row, she didn't buy it, but likes how the 5 just comes with one.. She also wishes she had the sliding doors. The biggest thing you'll be giving up is the handling. The biggest gain you'll get from going away from a 5 to a rav 4 is reliability, especially in the suspension department.

Really nothing else exists in the US that seats more then 5 people and is somewhat fuel efficient. Your options are the Mz5 and Rav4 with 3rd seats –if you can even find one and not sure you can get a new one with that option anymore.

Some off topic pipe dream discussions:
1)The current Japanese Premacy (same architecture as our current Mazda5) is out with the Sky 2.0 motor. This means once the Sky 2.0 and prob 2.5 and Sky Diesel motors are available in your local US junkyard, it just “might” swap in with little modification but may need more accompanying parts. This would be the ultimate anti turbo/hp motor swap for me –love it!

2)Get the Prius V and make friends in Euro/Asia. The Prius Plus in Europe, or the Prius Alpha in Asia is a Prius V but with a 3rd row option MPV. I was really hoping US would get it too but like the Grand C-Max, it died before it made it here. Granted, it sounds like the 5 vs 7 seat uses different battery packs so it may not be as easy but you can move things around and lose some trunk space.

Silentnoise713 said:

Really nothing else exists in the US that seats more then 5 people and is somewhat fuel efficient. Your options are the Mz5 and Rav4 with 3rd seats –if you can even find one and not sure you can get a new one with that option anymore.

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Funny, since the buying a new car to save money on gas is absolutely counterproductive.

Well, thanks all, I think I can safely delete the RAV4 from my comparison chart, since it is a worse consideration than a 5AT '08+ Mz5 for my purposes.

thaxman said:

Well, thanks all, I think I can safely delete the RAV4 from my comparison chart, since it is a worse consideration than a 5AT '08+ Mz5 for my purposes.

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If you are considering an '08+ 5AT, skip the Sport/Touring and go straight to the GT. Much better package and since buying used, there's a marginal mark-up.

Also, just throwing this out there b/c it cross my mind as a beater. The original/class Volvo 240 wagons have two rear facing jump seats. Available in a 5 speed manual, near bullet proof 4 banger engine, original tank build (pre Ford), and is RWD! BUUUUTTT MPG is not so good and acceleration does not exist. I test drove an auto, it was scary, LOL . If I come across a manual sedan that lived in Phoenix/CA, I would still be interested but I like classics. Nonetheless, it is the ultimate fun beater (manual + RWD) that ‘can’ transport 7 –in a pinch- for less than 1-2K and will last a very long time with some TLC. Not like recycle cars today.