poor stopping in the snow: brakes/abs/tires?

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daneli

The snowy winter has brought to light a somewhat dangerous problem with our 2010 CX-9 sport. (We have 23,000 miles on the 9, with stock wheels and original tires with lots of remaining tread.) When there is an inch or so of new snow on the road, slowing down to make a right turn, the abs engages and the car slides like it is on skates. This seems to happen regardless of how slowly I approach a turn. Once the abs engages, it is like there are no brakes at all. In the snow this evening I missed two right turns this way, even though I had slowed to a crawl.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if the abs is malfunctioning - it feels/sounds like it should be working, if there is something up with the traction/stability control, or if the stock tires are just terrible for stopping in the snow. Stopping is great under all other conditions. Thanks! - Dan
 
The tires. Change the OE tires.
I recommand Yokohama Spec-X if all-season is what fits your need.
 
I Canada, Transport Canada recommends winter tires. Basically AWD gets you going and tires stop you. The rubber compounds in winter tires are much more flexible than all-season tires and gives your vehicle better grip in cold temperatures. Once you've tried winter tires, you'll never go back. Just remember to change back to all-season tires once winter has passed, because the flexible rubber wears out quickly in warm weather.

daneli said:
The snowy winter has brought to light a somewhat dangerous problem with our 2010 CX-9 sport. (We have 23,000 miles on the 9, with stock wheels and original tires with lots of remaining tread.) When there is an inch or so of new snow on the road, slowing down to make a right turn, the abs engages and the car slides like it is on skates. This seems to happen regardless of how slowly I approach a turn. Once the abs engages, it is like there are no brakes at all. In the snow this evening I missed two right turns this way, even though I had slowed to a crawl.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if the abs is malfunctioning - it feels/sounds like it should be working, if there is something up with the traction/stability control, or if the stock tires are just terrible for stopping in the snow. Stopping is great under all other conditions. Thanks! - Dan
Click to expand...
 
Most snow tires will beat Spec-X on snow.
Among all-season ones, Spec-X is one of the best.
 
4000lbs + Cheap All season + Snow = No Stop


This should not come as a surprise. Buy Winter Tires.
 
If you get lots of snow, definitely buy snow tires. Otherwise, the spec-x is highly recommended around here.
 
danz75 said:
If you get lots of snow, definitely buy snow tires. Otherwise, the spec-x is highly recommended around here.
Click to expand...

In Caifornia the parada's are probably good. I went with them because of the recommendations here. To tell you that they suck in the snow is an understatement. We only had an inch here and the ABS system activated like the poster above mentioned. These tires resemble a sports car tire than a good all season tire. The duelers that came with my cx9 were outstanding in the snow. One other thing with the parada's they make noises when you are turning and the ground has either hard snow or ice. I never had that problem with the duelers. I noticed here at the dealerships that the new ones have a different type of yokohama tire than the spec x and they are more meatier. I also see some 9's with blizzaks. I got 5 good years out of my duelers i hope to at least get the same with the paradas since i spent all that money. My next set of tires will be either the original duelers that it came with or the blizzaks.
 
Thanks very much for the replies and suggestions. Since winter snow has become fairly intermittent around these parts in the last few years I think the all-seasons are probably the most practical choice. I remain a bit uncertain about the performance of the ABS. It seems that regardless of how slowly I was moving or how lightly I feathered the brakes I couldn't keep the ABS from activating and the car going into a slide. It felt like the ABS made the slide worse. I had the sense that I would have done a better job slowing down if the ABS had been turned off - even though on other cars I've always felt I couldn't outperform ABS in poor conditions. Anyway, thanks again for all the help! I'm looking forward to getting new tires.
 
Get winter tires on separate rims, you'll thank yourself. ABS does not help your car stop faster, in fact it's a bit slower than locking up your tires. ABS is designed to help you maintain control of your vehicle while stopping. If your tires don't have traction, it's not going to stop. All season tires become hockey pucks below 45 F. No amount of tread pattern will compensate or that.
 
daneli said:
Thanks very much for the replies and suggestions. Since winter snow has become fairly intermittent around these parts in the last few years I think the all-seasons are probably the most practical choice. I remain a bit uncertain about the performance of the ABS. It seems that regardless of how slowly I was moving or how lightly I feathered the brakes I couldn't keep the ABS from activating and the car going into a slide. It felt like the ABS made the slide worse. I had the sense that I would have done a better job slowing down if the ABS had been turned off - even though on other cars I've always felt I couldn't outperform ABS in poor conditions. Anyway, thanks again for all the help! I'm looking forward to getting new tires.
Click to expand...

It's simple Physics.

I want you to put on a set of 1980's converse shoes, run on a skating rink top speed and try to stop as fast as possible.

The OEM tires are "All Season" the rubber in them is a compromise, they are neither good in Summer or Winter. They are "OK" at both.
 
DKaz said:
Get winter tires on separate rims, you'll thank yourself. ABS does not help your car stop faster, in fact it's a bit slower than locking up your tires. ABS is designed to help you maintain control of your vehicle while stopping. If your tires don't have traction, it's not going to stop. All season tires become hockey pucks below 45 F. No amount of tread pattern will compensate or that.
Click to expand...

The CX-9 is my 5th car with ABS and all seasons--my 3rd with all wheel drive. We had a 1-inch snow storm a few weeks ago, and the stopping distance was noticeably worse than any of those other cars. You can't just put this on all seasons--these tires are terrible.
 
Daneli, you live in Michigan, you need a separate setup for winter. Unfortunately, I agree with Brian. "4000lbs + Cheap All season + Snow = No Stop"

But living in Michigan, it is more like "4000lbs + Any All season Tire + Snow = No Stop"

I am about to buy another set of tires. I was between the Parada Spec X and the tires I currently have, Nitto NT850+
I'm going with the Nitto's. While the Parada's review better for light snow traction, they review poorly for hydroplaning in heavy rain. The Nitto's suck in snow, but are king champions through any amount of water at any speed (until they get down to 4/32... I can't go as fast in the downpours now).

I deal with snow in central Kentucky about 4-5 days out of the year.
But for you, in Michigan, you are going to deal with snow a lot. You need a winter set of wheels/tires.
 
Thanks Helbigtw. Our 2001 Odyssey weighed over 4000 lbs and generally did fine on all-seaons through the winter.
 
As stated and reiterated, get a spare set of wheels and dedicated snow tires. Then buy a good performance tire for the warmer months. I bought a used set of Blizzaks because I am cheap but the difference is night and day. I'll buy a new set before next season and then next spring I'll replace the OE. the OE suck just like almost all OE tires on any make, all about cost containment.
 
Daneli, i'm sorry, I just don't think anyone on here is going to tell you that there is any all season tire that "performs well" in snow. Light snow / dusting is one thing, but Michigan snow... you are likely on your own to try and use an all season tire in a Michican winter with a CX-9.
 
daneli said:
Thanks Helbigtw. Our 2001 Odyssey weighed over 4000 lbs and generally did fine on all-seaons through the winter.
Click to expand...

But--you can't over generalize just because it had "all seasons." Go to tirerack.com, and look at all the all-season tires available for your vehicle, and look at the ratings, particularly at the surveys. You will see HUGE differences in ratings, especially for snow traction categories. All tires are not created equal, even in the same category.
 
In looking for new tires, I find the various internet tire seller's customer rating systems to be extremely biased and unreliable. There is simply zero data ever quoted and most of the gushing reviews are written within a few weeks of tire purchase. Similarly, most of the reviews that trash the original equipment tires have the sound of boy racers trying to sound like they know better than the Mazda engineers who chose the original equipment tires. The one test I found in ?Car and Driver or similar magazine of premium all seasons showed clearly that the Duellers were no better or worse than the other tested tires on the skid track with or without ice. Following those tire site recommendations is like signing up for a hike with the lemming society. I doubt there is much difference at all between the similarly priced all seasons (premium or not) with regard to performance until you get to limits that non professional drivers simply never test. The snow issue is not a problem that will be solved by a different all season tire. Snow requires winter tires and ideally a bit narrower than the 20" that comes on the GT.
 
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