iracemine's purpose built N/A ST2 thread
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neat article
The Art of Adjustable Shocks
Jesse Prather explains what a good set of double-adjustable shocks can do for a racer and help him or her tune the car.
PratherJesse Prather builds championship-winning cars and knows how to make them work.
Adjustable shock absorbers, or dampers if you prefer, are fairly commonplace at all levels of racing. Most are double adjustable for compression and rebound, some are adjustable for compression only, and the three-way shocks include high- and low-speed compression adjustments. Theyre incredibly useful tools, if one knows what he or she is doing.
Really good racing shocks are probably one of the biggest overlooked pieces on any racecar, because theyre hard to understand sometimes, and hard to figure out how to adjust properly, says Jesse Prather, proprietor of Jesse Prather Motorsports and builder of championship-winning Miatas. But it can make such a difference. The key to learning this kind of stuff is, A: testing; and B: getting some information from people that may know a little bit more than you do.
Prather has a bit of experience working with adjustable shocks on the mostly Production-class Miatas he builds and in helping customers set up their cars correctly. He explains compression sometimes called bump as the shocks ability to dampen the forces up against the spring. Compression is commonly used to adapt the car to track conditions, but it can also help make the car work better. He often calls rebound a secondary sway bar setting, he says, because it prevents the spring from stretching out.
Used in conjunction, these two settings can get you a long way toward having a car that works well, assuming your suspension geometry and spring rates are correct. But in order to use the shocks to cure a handling problem, you first have to identify where in a corner braking and initial turn-in, mid-corner, or exit the problem occurs, because the typical adjustment depends largely on that fact. You would adjust the shocks differently depending on where in the corner its giving you trouble. That is really the key to figuring out how to adjust your shocks, Prather says.
SCCA National Championship Runoffs, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Oct. 7-12, 2014:Corner entry issues may likely be solved by some shock adjustments.
Theres a black art to it, he continues, before giving some examples of problems that might be fixed by a shock adjustment, with the disclaimer that the old, If A, then B, equation doesnt work with all cars in all situations, and a little experimentation and testing will be in order.
If youve got corner-entry oversteer, youre in the middle of hard braking, youve got the car pitched in pretty tight. Ive seen corner-entry oversteer as not enough front compression; Ive also seen it as too much rear rebound and the rear shocks are actually trying to pick the tires up off the ground.
Corner -entry understeer is generally a situation of not enough front rebound. What happens is you turn the car in and the front of the car rolls over on itself, rather than having a nice, crisp turn-in. You need a good amount of front rebound to get the car to initially turn in; but a lot of times youll run into a situation where the car will turn in, but as you roll it down to the apex, the back end is starting to come around. Thats just an imbalance front to rear. A lot of that has to do with spring rate, he adds.
The mention of spring rates is one more reminder that there are several factors in whether a car works correctly geometry, spring rates, anti-sway bars and shocks, not to mention tires, camber, caster, toe and, what many people overlook when diagnosing handling problems, the driver. Problems at mid-corner could be several of those other things; problems at corner exit often boil down to driving technique, Prather says, although in a rear-wheel-drive car, consistent corner exit understeer can be helped by adding a chunk of rear compression.
Where many people start is getting the compression right for the bumpiness of the track. You know youve got too much compression in the front of the car if the steering wheel is trying to jerk itself out of your hand as you go through the bumps. Instead of absorbing the bump, its bouncing over it, Prather says. Err on the side of too soft on the compression, but dial in rebound carefully, he notes.
One might have started reading this hoping to end it knowing exactly how to adjust the shocks for just about every situation, but its not that simple. They key, though is to use the adjustment and learn how it affects your particular car.
A lot of it is trial and error, he says. Theres nothing like some testing to figure out how to make something like that work. The number one thing is to twist on those knobs and figure out what it feels like. So many people put adjustable shocks in their car and never touch them. Why have adjustable shocks if youre never going to adjust them?
- See more at: http://mazdamotorsports.com/webapp/...1&langId=-1&source=STORY#sthash.Tuk8htXW.dpuf
The Art of Adjustable Shocks
Jesse Prather explains what a good set of double-adjustable shocks can do for a racer and help him or her tune the car.
PratherJesse Prather builds championship-winning cars and knows how to make them work.
Adjustable shock absorbers, or dampers if you prefer, are fairly commonplace at all levels of racing. Most are double adjustable for compression and rebound, some are adjustable for compression only, and the three-way shocks include high- and low-speed compression adjustments. Theyre incredibly useful tools, if one knows what he or she is doing.
Really good racing shocks are probably one of the biggest overlooked pieces on any racecar, because theyre hard to understand sometimes, and hard to figure out how to adjust properly, says Jesse Prather, proprietor of Jesse Prather Motorsports and builder of championship-winning Miatas. But it can make such a difference. The key to learning this kind of stuff is, A: testing; and B: getting some information from people that may know a little bit more than you do.
Prather has a bit of experience working with adjustable shocks on the mostly Production-class Miatas he builds and in helping customers set up their cars correctly. He explains compression sometimes called bump as the shocks ability to dampen the forces up against the spring. Compression is commonly used to adapt the car to track conditions, but it can also help make the car work better. He often calls rebound a secondary sway bar setting, he says, because it prevents the spring from stretching out.
Used in conjunction, these two settings can get you a long way toward having a car that works well, assuming your suspension geometry and spring rates are correct. But in order to use the shocks to cure a handling problem, you first have to identify where in a corner braking and initial turn-in, mid-corner, or exit the problem occurs, because the typical adjustment depends largely on that fact. You would adjust the shocks differently depending on where in the corner its giving you trouble. That is really the key to figuring out how to adjust your shocks, Prather says.
SCCA National Championship Runoffs, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Oct. 7-12, 2014:Corner entry issues may likely be solved by some shock adjustments.
Theres a black art to it, he continues, before giving some examples of problems that might be fixed by a shock adjustment, with the disclaimer that the old, If A, then B, equation doesnt work with all cars in all situations, and a little experimentation and testing will be in order.
If youve got corner-entry oversteer, youre in the middle of hard braking, youve got the car pitched in pretty tight. Ive seen corner-entry oversteer as not enough front compression; Ive also seen it as too much rear rebound and the rear shocks are actually trying to pick the tires up off the ground.
Corner -entry understeer is generally a situation of not enough front rebound. What happens is you turn the car in and the front of the car rolls over on itself, rather than having a nice, crisp turn-in. You need a good amount of front rebound to get the car to initially turn in; but a lot of times youll run into a situation where the car will turn in, but as you roll it down to the apex, the back end is starting to come around. Thats just an imbalance front to rear. A lot of that has to do with spring rate, he adds.
The mention of spring rates is one more reminder that there are several factors in whether a car works correctly geometry, spring rates, anti-sway bars and shocks, not to mention tires, camber, caster, toe and, what many people overlook when diagnosing handling problems, the driver. Problems at mid-corner could be several of those other things; problems at corner exit often boil down to driving technique, Prather says, although in a rear-wheel-drive car, consistent corner exit understeer can be helped by adding a chunk of rear compression.
Where many people start is getting the compression right for the bumpiness of the track. You know youve got too much compression in the front of the car if the steering wheel is trying to jerk itself out of your hand as you go through the bumps. Instead of absorbing the bump, its bouncing over it, Prather says. Err on the side of too soft on the compression, but dial in rebound carefully, he notes.
One might have started reading this hoping to end it knowing exactly how to adjust the shocks for just about every situation, but its not that simple. They key, though is to use the adjustment and learn how it affects your particular car.
A lot of it is trial and error, he says. Theres nothing like some testing to figure out how to make something like that work. The number one thing is to twist on those knobs and figure out what it feels like. So many people put adjustable shocks in their car and never touch them. Why have adjustable shocks if youre never going to adjust them?
- See more at: http://mazdamotorsports.com/webapp/...1&langId=-1&source=STORY#sthash.Tuk8htXW.dpuf
Almost completely done. All that is left with the body work is a couple of stickers to cover the turn signal holes, and to wet/color sand the fenders (when it gets warmer outside). And with the mechanics all that is left is to mount new tires (again when its warmer outside), and bleed the brakes with new fluid closer to my first race.
Used new MazdaSpeed brake calipers and their 11" rotors (plain centric cyro treated) to help my brake fade problems. Dabbed some clear on the cracks on the hood to tone down the fryad carbon and placed a new number sticker over the big crack and that is as much as I care too do. Also The hood closed a but too tight on the stock grill I nabbed from the junk yard so I switch it out with the crappy carbon one I had on my daily P5 and it worked. A couple coats of clear and wala.
New Brakes
New rotor fitting in the 15" Slipstreams
Old rotor (just cant keep up with the increased speeds from the new power)
And a quick pic of the new front end
Used new MazdaSpeed brake calipers and their 11" rotors (plain centric cyro treated) to help my brake fade problems. Dabbed some clear on the cracks on the hood to tone down the fryad carbon and placed a new number sticker over the big crack and that is as much as I care too do. Also The hood closed a but too tight on the stock grill I nabbed from the junk yard so I switch it out with the crappy carbon one I had on my daily P5 and it worked. A couple coats of clear and wala.
New Brakes
New rotor fitting in the 15" Slipstreams
Old rotor (just cant keep up with the increased speeds from the new power)
And a quick pic of the new front end
Attachments
Last edited:
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege
Nice, those are pretty good numbers! Suprised the 505 did that well with a NA setup, I didnt seem to notice much when I installed it on my turbo motor.
170whp from a NA FS is pretty dam good
170whp from a NA FS is pretty dam good
Now that is not frigid outside I was able to color sand the fenders. And also mounted on the new rubber from toyo. Even though there was a ton of rubber left on the bfg's I think they where just a bit to hard. Maybe I will save them for a hot race day and see if they are any good.
First race of the year is in two weeks. I will hope to have a new video of the 505 in action and also the MSP brakes working or not. I really hope so....
First race of the year is in two weeks. I will hope to have a new video of the 505 in action and also the MSP brakes working or not. I really hope so....
Attachments
Wagonbacker9
Member
- :
- 2004 'Hoe
BFG R1's are CRAZY expensive. I priced them out for my car... $300 a piece.
Its hard to make any sterile judgments on the new Toyos. I have changed so much on the car since the last time I ran the BFG's (even tuning the suspension back), but that said the BFG's seem so much stickier and more forgiving. However my tiny P5 tires are much much cheaper than G8 tires... LOL... So give me a few races and I will report back.
I hope it does not rain this weekend. Its race #3 for my club and I need to step up and get going even in the rain. Now that I know I can stop my car with the Mazdaspeed rotors and calipers I can and did order the Correct Mazdaspeed pads (a bit larger than the P5's). This set up fits inside the/my 15" Slipstreem Rota wheels. So I need to buy a set of Hooshier rain tires and scrape that sand out my crotch.
hope my next vid should be much much better. Still loving the smooth sound cumming from the 505ZOOM intake, and even the popping/growling down shifting!
Wagonbacker9
Member
- :
- 2004 'Hoe
If you still need to upgrade, I believe it would require a bigger wheel but Mazda6 brakes bolt up.
I scored a pair of the R1s for 60 bucks. For that price I couldn't pass up using them as drag tires. Even though that is not their purpose in life, they'll be much stickier than my all seasons, and I'm not making enough power to blow through them... yet.
I scored a pair of the R1s for 60 bucks. For that price I couldn't pass up using them as drag tires. Even though that is not their purpose in life, they'll be much stickier than my all seasons, and I'm not making enough power to blow through them... yet.
Still tuning the car. The motor sounds awesome with the 505, and the backfire out of the exhaust when I change gears. It is so freaking loud I feel that the floor boards are going to rip open (open header dumped just past the passenger seat)! However I still need to put the rear sway bar back to the setting I had when I crashed. I cannot get this thing to polar around corners like it used to. So still not going to give the Toyos a fair review. However, if I had to in the mean time I would say they are too hard. Most likely made for the miata crowd that likes to punish tires. They squeal in corners like street tires. Probably to help newer drivers understand the limits of tires.
SO my track times with all the extra motor are back before I even messed with the motor. And last year when I came to the track and had no brakes and a terrible running motor I was 2 second faster. So I know i'm not throwing the car through the corners fast as I used to. ALSO the brakes faded again, but at least this time it was half way through the race. I am going to run a second (retarded yes) air inlet hose to the brakes. I mean I have the turn signal holes I might as well. I will leave the main 3" hose to the calipers, but the secondary will go to the rotor (as close as I can get to the center without cutting the axle boot). And since the motor now idles fine I will see if I can find a brake booster that fits the Mazda and the Wilwood master cylinder.
I might take on stage three of weight savings too since I am heavier, and the car with the bumper, larger brakes is heavier too.
Got hit for the first time.
super unnecessary. Pinata mentality. No respect for cars, just about being first. I think/hope they are trying to get their own group so they can just bounce of each other and not other cars that are not even in their class.
If you go to the end I slowed the vid down to see me getting hit and reacting to keep the car on the track. I was trying to get around the RX7 on the outside (so yes going a bit slower (controlled)) and I guess that does not favor lesser hp miatas so the better thing to do is to hit the other slower cars...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b8u9zaLSEXA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I will be posting up some pics from the brake stuff here in a few days. I have been upgrading my race trailer quite a bit, but I do not think any Mazda guys would care about that.
SO my track times with all the extra motor are back before I even messed with the motor. And last year when I came to the track and had no brakes and a terrible running motor I was 2 second faster. So I know i'm not throwing the car through the corners fast as I used to. ALSO the brakes faded again, but at least this time it was half way through the race. I am going to run a second (retarded yes) air inlet hose to the brakes. I mean I have the turn signal holes I might as well. I will leave the main 3" hose to the calipers, but the secondary will go to the rotor (as close as I can get to the center without cutting the axle boot). And since the motor now idles fine I will see if I can find a brake booster that fits the Mazda and the Wilwood master cylinder.
I might take on stage three of weight savings too since I am heavier, and the car with the bumper, larger brakes is heavier too.
Got hit for the first time.
super unnecessary. Pinata mentality. No respect for cars, just about being first. I think/hope they are trying to get their own group so they can just bounce of each other and not other cars that are not even in their class.
If you go to the end I slowed the vid down to see me getting hit and reacting to keep the car on the track. I was trying to get around the RX7 on the outside (so yes going a bit slower (controlled)) and I guess that does not favor lesser hp miatas so the better thing to do is to hit the other slower cars...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b8u9zaLSEXA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I will be posting up some pics from the brake stuff here in a few days. I have been upgrading my race trailer quite a bit, but I do not think any Mazda guys would care about that.
Attachments
Can't get any more air to these things I think. I know there are air duct coolers/misters, but I don't think I want the hassle of cracking rotors.
I will have to update you guys on the trailer. There is a ton of stuff I had to do it, because it started out as a glorified landscaping trailer. I will do that when I get the patio awning up in time for the next race.
I will have to update you guys on the trailer. There is a ton of stuff I had to do it, because it started out as a glorified landscaping trailer. I will do that when I get the patio awning up in time for the next race.
Attachments
ZealoustheEnder
Contributor
- :
- 2003 MSP
subbed
I defiantly want my n/a build up in your power range.
Can't get any more air to these things I think. I know there are air duct coolers/misters, but I don't think I want the hassle of cracking rotors.
I will have to update you guys on the trailer. There is a ton of stuff I had to do it, because it started out as a glorified landscaping trailer. I will do that when I get the patio awning up in time for the next race.
I defiantly want my n/a build up in your power range.
masonrygeek
Member
- :
- 2002 soon to be boosted MP5, 2015 Fist
Quite the bump but i just wanted to say Im super excited about taking my P5 to gingerman in 2 weeks.
Awesome! Love Gingerman and their new corner. Need to get back there and try again with a motor that runs and brakes that work. So I am half way there!
mspeedP5
Contributor
- :
- '02 Protege5
Throwing in my vote for trailer pics too! I just got mine and now I'm looking for ideas lol!
