FS-DE Limits

CF_KoiFry · Sep 11, 2012

So, I was looking around the forums, search tool is lovely, thankyou for incorporating it, and I've come to the conclusion that the grand whopping horsepower limit for a FS-DE on stock internals is around 190 WHP...that's wheel horse. Granted...that's a lot for an engine that only ever made 90whp N/A. NOW, I was looking and just like any other engine that is popular to build, people make forged internals for this engine. Woo! Now, the stock engine's weakest link seems to be the rods (Aside from the oil starvation issue...). The stock rods, through my research and discussion with a few other people here and on other forums seem to be capable of only 190whp...which is where my original figure came in. Now...it would seem the stock pistons can handle a little more, around 200-210whp...which got me to thinking...

What are the limits to the FS-DE on forged internals? That's forged Rods, forged Pistons, and let's go a little nuts here and say what the hell, we'll go ahead and put some better valve springs in there too.

What would this theoretical engine be capable of? Granted, I'm not talking about what parts or turbos are used to MAKE the horsepower needed to blow a forged motor. I'm talking with the proper safeguards, tuning, fuel enrichment, blah blah, what can a forged motor be expected to handle in terms of wheel horsepower? ...ballpark figure...

Cleverfrog · Sep 11, 2012

Id be more weary of the gearbox

Preferio · Sep 11, 2012

CF_KoiFry said:
I've come to the conclusion that the grand whopping horsepower limit for a FS-DE on stock internals is around 190 WHP...that's wheel horse.

Whoa... Whoa... Whoa... WRONG. Joey made 268whp in his MSP as well as other numerous members on here.

CF_KoiFry · Sep 11, 2012

Yes, the gearbox is a drawback, as the stock MSP limited slip, in my findings, seems to detonate around 200-220 whp. BUT, what about the gears? Most econobox transmissions on the market can handle (gear wise) about 300-350whp before you start sheering teeth off, but then again the auto-tragic that everybody loves to bash so much, with the right cooler, valvebody, torque converter, and rebuild can hold upwards of 500whp...with the focus guys pushing them past 600 in some applications. Now...what about the 5spd gearbox with say GTX gears and an aftermarket differential? They would hold more power, I'm assuming?

CF_KoiFry · Sep 11, 2012

Preferio said:
Whoa... Whoa... Whoa... WRONG. Joey made 268whp in his MSP as well as other numerous members on here.

On stock internals? With the reputation of WEAK that has befallen the FS-DE...I'm the duke of doubt. Not at all saying it wasn't done, if it was, epic...but typically I'm noticing people seem to have failures right around the 200whp mark.

Preferio · Sep 11, 2012

CF_KoiFry said:
On stock internals? With the reputation of WEAK that has befallen the FS-DE...I'm the duke of doubt. Not at all saying it wasn't done, if it was, epic...but typically I'm noticing people seem to have failures right around the 200whp mark.

Yes, stock internals, but last week he bent a rod. There were dyno results posted and he's local.

You don't have to tell me about "weak" internals... I'm on my THIRD motor since May. The first one made it 178k, the second one was blown to smithereens when my boost spiked to 17psi, and the thrid is still in the car and running nicely on 11psi...

Cleverfrog · Sep 11, 2012

this is my new favorite thread

CF_KoiFry · Sep 11, 2012

Preferio said:
Yes, stock internals, but last week he bent a rod. There were dyno results posted and he's local.

How long did it run before he bent the rod?

Edit: Do you have numbers for your car at 11psi? Is it the stock GT25r?

Edit:Edit: It would seem we should get people to post some numbers for us. Who's forged? Who's still on stock internals? What kinda numbers ARE people pushing the stock internals to? Who has experienced failures? When, how? Questions questions!!!(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)

RicoP5 · Sep 11, 2012

Spiced MSP · Sep 11, 2012

to answer your original question, with a built motor and supporting mods and tuning, the FS is only limited by the transmission. There are guys here pushing 500+. So yes, a built motor can handle whatever you throw at it. You will just need a built transmission and better LSD to plant that power without destroying gears.

Spiced MSP · Sep 11, 2012

I remember reading somewhere that his hp numbers isn't what blew the motor. I believe someone said his tq numbers is what killed it. and yes there are several stock motors on here well above 190 and still running strong

Cleverfrog · Sep 11, 2012

Spiced MSP said:
to answer your original question, with a built motor and supporting mods and tuning, the FS is only limited by the transmission. There are guys here pushing 500+. So yes, a built motor can handle whatever you throw at it. You will just need a built transmission and better LSD to plant that power without destroying gears.

Thank you

Maxx Mazda · Sep 11, 2012

joka1 hit 22psi on a stock block

Spiced MSP · Sep 11, 2012

CF_KoiFry said:
How long did it run before he bent the rod?

Edit: Do you have numbers for your car at 11psi? Is it the stock GT25r?

Edit:Edit: It would seem we should get people to post some numbers for us. Who's forged? Who's still on stock internals? What kinda numbers ARE people pushing the stock internals to? Who has experienced failures? When, how? Questions questions!!!(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)

this is the downfall on the forum. Most of the builds on here do not have dyno numbers as they don't build their cars for numbers or probably just don't want to or have the time to dyno

Cleverfrog · Sep 11, 2012

CF_KoiFry said:
How long did it run before he bent the rod?

Edit: Do you have numbers for your car at 11psi? Is it the stock GT25r?

Edit:Edit: It would seem we should get people to post some numbers for us. Who's forged? Who's still on stock internals? What kinda numbers ARE people pushing the stock internals to? Who has experienced failures? When, how? Questions questions!!!(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)(scratch)

OMG search button

Spiced MSP · Sep 11, 2012

^^^that too!! Just browse the MSP performance section and you will find years worth of trial and error + all the questions you are asking right now. There is also a build thread around here somewhere with all the current and ongoing builds

CF_KoiFry · Sep 11, 2012

Maxx Mazda said:
joka1 hit 22psi on a stock block

That's impressive.

Spicedmsp: I agree whole heartedly...supporting mods ARE required to put the power to the ground. Granted, the amount of traction your tires can provide, plus the weight of wheels and brakes spinning, plus the tranny, and a whole BOOK of other variables can add to/cause a potential failure.

So if people are pushing stock internals well past 190...one might be inclined to change the questionability of the engine to wondering about the gearbox.

I haven't noticed many...if any upgrades to our gears. Yes, you can heat treat them, and have them shot peened and all those other cool fun ways to throw money into a build...but there seems to be a large enough following to buy the parts...why hasn't anybody built these transmissions yet?

Spiced MSP · Sep 11, 2012

people have, BrianMP5T has one of the most epic builds on the forum. He is using straight cut gears from PAR Engineering. They sell straight cut and helical gearsets for our cars. They are pricey but worth it.

link to the PAR site: http://www.par-engineering.com/sections/products/products.aspx?typeId=gearsets&manId=mazda

Cleverfrog · Sep 11, 2012

CF_KoiFry said:
That's impressive.

Spicedmsp: I agree whole heartedly...supporting mods ARE required to put the power to the ground. Granted, the amount of traction your tires can provide, plus the weight of wheels and brakes spinning, plus the tranny, and a whole BOOK of other variables can add to/cause a potential failure.

So if people are pushing stock internals well past 190...one might be inclined to change the questionability of the engine to wondering about the gearbox.

I haven't noticed many...if any upgrades to our gears. Yes, you can heat treat them, and have them shot peened and all those other cool fun ways to throw money into a build...but there seems to be a large enough following to buy the parts...why hasn't anybody built these transmissions yet?

seriously havent searched very much have you. PAR straight cuts/helical cuts. GTX I think. Mfactory diff. Quaife diff. It just takes some time using the SEARCH function to find your answers

2.0t03speed · Sep 11, 2012

fs-de sucks, g series trans sucks, and fwd sucks when you make power and get a ton of wheel spin because you are limited on tire sizes.

FS-DE Limits

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