Suspnsion Upgrades: How to decide? Most bang for buck?

Hi All,

First post here...I'm looking at reworking the rear suspension of the wife's 5...it needs shocks, bushing and end links. I'm annoyed there's not yet a Haynes (or anyone else for that matter) out for the 5, but whatever. This seems VERY straight forward and I've seen the videos for doing this on the 3. Any comment on prothane VS thermoplastic bushings? By my measurement the stock bar is 19mm, anyone want to verify that? Looking at KYB shocks. I want to get past stock to a point where the bits will last a reasonable amount of time without getting to highest end stuff (ie Koni @$300/pair) thoughts or Advice?

I swapped my stock rear sway bar for a MS3 one - definately an improvement. Corners flatter with less understeer. I've driven it as hard as the tires will allow and there's still no oversteer, even if I totally back off the throttle mid-corner.

I also use 17x7.5 wheels with the stock 205's - puts more rubber on the road, keeps the sidewalls stiffer at lower pressure, and sticking with the 205's keeps the steering light with excellent feedback.

I would love to find some springs that give minimal lowering, no sagging in the rear, and a slightly higher spring rate. Combined with some Koni sports, and a better alignment (less camber and toe-in in the rear), my Mazda5 should handle like a sport sedan.

Brian.D.N said:

Hi All,

First post here...I'm looking at reworking the rear suspension of the wife's 5...it needs shocks, bushing and end links. I'm annoyed there's not yet a Haynes (or anyone else for that matter) out for the 5, but whatever...

Click to expand...

I found this link on another forum: Repair manual link

225 / 45 -17 fit really well on my 7.5" rims, 45mm offset. Nice "fat" look without being so big I have to worry about rubbing. Brings them outboard just a little bit for a wider stance. I actually prefer a little more weight in the steering and it added just a touch, but doesn't make the handling heavy, just feels more planted. The wheel/tire combo is a little under 40lbs a corner, so no real weight gain (one of my stipulations).

I'm already pushing harder than most sport sedan _drivers_ are willing to go. With the JBR rear bar in the middle setting and stock front bar the 5 corners very neutrally. I've drifted it a few times on really hard turns. It feels balanced and controlled. Makes me look like a better driver than I am! Pretty amazing for a family hauler under 20 grand!

Benswen said:

I would love to find some springs that give minimal lowering, no sagging in the rear, and a slightly higher spring rate.

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Me too! Let us know if you find any!!

So is anyone running FSDs? They are on sale right now at a very tempting price.

wedginator said:

I would say do both. The car feel much more planted with both bars done. This is the rear bar I have:

http://www.jamesbaroneracing.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=46_68

And it's adjustable so you can play around with the different settings.

and front bar:

http://www.racingbeat.com/Mazda-3/Sway-Bars/74100.html

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Just ordered both of those and new end links for both. Looking forward to seeing what the effect is on the car (and getting rid of that damn clunking).

SandmanXP said:

Just ordered both of those and new end links for both. Looking forward to seeing what the effect is on the car (and getting rid of that damn clunking).

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I found bars... Interesting. It (or they) plants the car as wedginator indicates, but in terms of feel it (they) takes the drama out of cornering. As a not at all numerically accurate example, let's say you have a favorite entrance or exit ramp you take at 40, after both bars and provided you aren't too oversteer-tuned (with the JBR I found the middle setting ideal for street) 40 feels like you are going too slow, it's just a leisurely turn, and you won't feel like you are "turning hard" until you get up to 60. I don't mean that you'll literally increase cornering capability 50%, just trying to explain the effect. It (they) makes the car more capable so you have to go faster to get that "woah this is a hard curve" feel. It's pretty cool. Steering response increases a lot, especially with the rear bar which "brings the back end around" much more quickly in response to your front end steering inputs.

I'm not really sure what I expected as this was the first time I'd done them. Having no basis of comparison maybe I expected the difference to be like going from all seasons to summer tires: the car feels the same, you can just grip more. These definitely change the feel of the car and for the better. Best upgrade after a good set of tires - and maybe before a good set as they cheaper.

Good luck and have fun!

Well... my mechanic put the sway bars on today and I drove around for an hour or so and it felt good like the.jack described above and had a minimal amount of clunking/rattling. Then as I pull into my driveway with it's several bumps, I hear a ping and a rattle. So; I drive it around and the magic is gone and the front end sounds worse than before. I took it back to the mechanic and he's going to look at it, try to fix it, and get it back to me tonight if he can.

I'm guessing either things just needed to be re-torqued after being on and off the lift or maybe some other failing suspension component gave out due to the change in force of the sway bar. I can only guess what since I don't know how all the various arms and linkages interact. Or maybe my mechanic doesn't know what he's doing - I hope that's not the case.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

SandmanXP said:

Then as I pull into my driveway with it's several bumps, I hear a ping and a rattle. So; I drive it around and the magic is gone and the front end sounds worse than before.

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My guess: a sway bar link broke. If you ever look at them they are quite skinny, both front and rear. But the front ones are much longer, making them especially weak. Yours is an 06, so those little parts have some age and miles on them and you've just double or tripled the forces they are dealing with. Once one link is broken the sway bar will stay tucked under the car, but the broken link parts will slap around under there, again especially in the front.

If I'm right, whichever "axle" needs replacing (front or rear) I recommend you replace both of the end links. If you can swing it, I'd go ahead and replace all four of them. You can either go cheap and get Beck & Arnley (or similar OEM-type supplier) for a part of similar quality to the stockers or you can get beefier aftermarket sets for a little more money (IIRC they aren't TOO much more thank stock replacements).

The fronts might be a little trickier to replace, but I do recommend you try to replace the rears yourself as they are super easy to access and it's an overall easy job. I didn't have to work on the front ones, but other than getting your hands and tools around the top of the links it's not more difficult of a job. If you are under there anyway, try the fronts. Worst case you can't do it and you are no worse off (they improve handling greatly, but are not a necessary component). There are two small tricks to it, but they are quite simple:

1) Do NOT use the Allen key (which fits into the end of the bolts on the links) to loosen the bolt from the nut, use the Allen key (or socket or whatever you have) to hold the bolt steady and use the wrench on the nut to do the "moving". I repeat, just hold the Allen key steady (or prop the key against part of the car)! I stripped the Allen hole in both of my rear end links and had to rip the things apart and apply a Vise-grip to the innards. It made an easy job a real PITA.

2) I HIGHLY recommend a sized box wrench or an adjustable wrench with a clamp built-in, don't use a plain adjustable wrench. The adjustable, especially a cheaper one, may loosen slightly (mine are poo) and you can round the nut edges. But an adjustable with a clamp is like magic and often works better than a sized wrench where tolerances may make them a little loose.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the advice. The thing is; I had them replace both end links on each bar for the reasons you mention. They were Moog and and cost a little more than some other options. I don't know if they were better than any other brand, but they seemed better than stock - the fronts particularly. So; it's possible I got a bad new link and it broke, but I expect that something else failed.

Update: as I was typing, the mechanic called and said that the new end links were "walking off" (or maybe "working off" - he has an accent). He tightened them up, drove around for a while, put it back up on the rack and they were coming loose again. He wants to put the old links back on the rear (he said before all this that he didn't like design of the new rear Moogs) and he thinks he can get the new front links to stay in place. Oh well... I considered trying adjustable end links, but it didn't seem necessary. I guess I can try them if the stocks do fail.

If anyone is replacing their end links, I can't recommend the Moogs, based on this experience. I'll update tomorrow.

That's good, at least. Sorry the Moogs suck. I would expect more from them!

Like I said, if your bars are totally gone you still have a drivable car. It will just have much floppier transient responses. So you might as well run those stockers until they pop

I'd also try and get a refund on the Moogs. That's some BS.

Got it back this evening and haven't had much time to drive it around, but it felt really good for the 20 minutes or so I did drive it. The front end rattle is gone. I don't know the accurate/technical terms to describe it, but it feels more planted and responsive in turns - feels more like my wife's Accord or what i imagine the Mazda3 feels like. It really made me want to get a nice seat. Hopefully the end links wont work themselves loose again.

Hard to evaluate the sway bar upgrade independent of upgrading the struts to FSDs since I won't put the old ones on for comparison, but I think the sway bars made a more noticeable improvement to the ride than the struts did. I'll post more observations later, but right now I'd recommend a sway bar upgrade to anyone looking to improve the feel of the Mazda 5 and get rid of the damn clunking in the front end.

Oh, and already submitted the return request to Amazon. Just need to box and send 'em.

So after reading this it seems that the struts/springs off a mazda3 will bolt right up to a mazda5? The reason I am asking is because I want to do airride suspension on my mazda5 but unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of options for a bolt on kit. Air Lift is currently developing a kit for the mazda3 which I'm hoping would fit the mazda5 but they're not sure if the suspensions are compatible.

omarsxb951 said:

So after reading this it seems that the struts/springs off a mazda3 will bolt right up to a mazda5? The reason I am asking is because I want to do airride suspension on my mazda5 but unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of options for a bolt on kit. Air Lift is currently developing a kit for the mazda3 which I'm hoping would fit the mazda5 but they're not sure if the suspensions are compatible.

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For most intents and purposes Mazda3 suspension parts will fit (there's a bolt sizing difference in the rear bar - easily remedied). The real issue is weight. As mentioned - either here or other threads - the 5 is heavier on its own, has a longer rear overhang and is likely to be loaded with more weight more frequently than a 3 simply because the nature of the vehicle. All of these things add stress, especially in the rear suspension (how many of us have blown rear shocks?!). A base 3's official curb weight is around 2900 a base 5 around 3400 (a Speed falling somewhere in the low-middle); suspension packages may well fit but will have to work harder with the 5.

That isn't to say it wouldn't work - 5 owners use Speed3 stuff all the time - but it's something to keep in mind!

So, I started getting a clunk in the front left and squeaking from the front bushings.

Tried getting lube into the front bushings, but they are really awkward to get to, so my attempt was ineffective. The JBR rear sway bar comes with greaseable fittings, but the Racing Beat front sway bar does not. So; I ordered some greaseable bushings from Energy Suspension and had my mechanic install them. The fittings are still in an awkward place, but still easier than pulling the bushings to grease them.

Mechanic said the front left link was coming loose like previously, so I had him put the old ones on both ends. Feels good and no clunks. Hopefully it lasts.

Bottom line is that: I recommend getting greaseable bushings for the front sway bar instead of using the ones supplied. And I advise against using any of the Moog end links - they don't have the hex end to allow you to hold it steady when you tighten the nut, so you can't get them as tight as those that do use a hex wrench.

Update on my car. I installed KYBs front and rear, and replaced the swaybar links front and rear. The rears have grease fittings.
Suspension feels fine, really no different than stock. For those looking for a performance upgrade, don't go with KYB.

The sad part is I still have a clunk going over bumps. I can't figure out what it is without a lift, and I'm peeved that it's still there.
Unless there's play in the strut mounts (they seemed fine) or the front swaybar bushings wore due to the loose end links, I can't figure out what it is.

danix said:

The sad part is I still have a clunk going over bumps. I can't figure out what it is without a lift, and I'm peeved that it's still there.
Unless there's play in the strut mounts (they seemed fine) or the front swaybar bushings wore due to the loose end links, I can't figure out what it is.

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The swaybar bushings would be my first guess, especially if they haven't been worked on or replaced for a long time.

Bushings were replaced last Fall.

Maybe check that the bolts are tight on the bushing brackets? Other than that, I could only guess at various arms and linkages...