Suspnsion Upgrades: How to decide? Most bang for buck?

S

SandmanXP

Member
:
Mazda 5 Sport 2006
I'm not much of a tuner, but really want to improve the suspension on my Mazda5. I'm considering Koni FSDs or Koni Yellows. I don't think I want to lower the car much due to the local potholes and because I want to be able to put snow chains on once or twice a year. I'm also interested in sway bars, but don't know how much difference that would make. The sway bars I have found online have been mostly rear which leaves me wondering if the front doesn't need much improvement or if folks are using front sway bars for a Mazda3, since it seems the 3 and 5 can share many of the same parts.

I'm not sure what to consider or what improvements will give me the most bang for the buck. If anyone has any experience they'd like to share, it would be much appreciated. (help)
 
Curious for info as well. I'm new to Mazdas. We picked up the first I've ever owned, a 2010 Mazda5 Grand Touring, for my wife a year ago. I run Koni FSDs on my 2004 VW R32 and love them, though. They are a great compromise between comfort and performance providing just enough of both to make for a perfect ride on a daily driver.

TireRack sells Koni but doesn't return any hits for the FSD on the Mazda5 though Koni lists part number 2100-4045 on their site. Am I correct in assuming that the Mazda5 takes the same shocks/struts as the Mazda3?
 
I've done the suspension bits on my 5 already, (shocks, front and rear sway bars, springs). I can safely say the Mazda 3 and 5 share the exact same suspension parts. However I do not recommend Mazda 3 springs on the 5 because the springs would be undersprung and sag especially in the rear. I know H&R makes springs specifically for the 5 if you're looking to upgrade that.

Go for the Koni Sport shocks. They're adjustable and I think they cost more or less the same as the FSD's.

I've also done the front and rear sway bars on the 5 as well. They don't sell sways specifically for the 5, but the ones for the 3 and Mazdaspeed 3 will work. I found just upgrading the rear bars created too much off throttle oversteer and felt a bit weird going over uneven pavement surfaces so might as well upgrade the fronts as well. And as expected the sway bars created a stiffer ride so I had to soften the shocks a bit so I don't get jostled around on uneven pavement.
 
Thanks for weighing in wedginator. Glad to know that the 3 and 5 parts are more or less interchangeable.

wedginator said:
I found just upgrading the rear bars created too much off throttle oversteer and felt a bit weird going over uneven pavement surfaces so might as well upgrade the fronts as well.
Click to expand...

Did that seem to even things out? Would you recommend doing both or staying stock?

wedginator said:
Go for the Koni Sport shocks. They're adjustable and I think they cost more or less the same as the FSD's.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the prices are pretty close. But if you add in springs to go with the FSDs, it makes coilovers worth considering, but I don't have enough experience with this stuff to know what I'd prefer in the end.

The Mazda5 is my daily driver, but my wife drives/rides in it often enough that it has to pass the WAF.

How is the ride on the Sports? What do you have them set at? How easy are they to adjust?
 
SandmanXP said:
Did that seem to even things out? Would you recommend doing both or staying stock?
Click to expand...

I would say do both. The car feel much more planted with both bars done. This is the rear bar I have:

http://www.jamesbaroneracing.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=46_68

And it's adjustable so you can play around with the different settings.

and front bar:

http://www.racingbeat.com/Mazda-3/Sway-Bars/74100.html

SandmanXP said:
Yeah, the prices are pretty close. But if you add in springs to go with the FSDs, it makes coilovers worth considering, but I don't have enough experience with this stuff to know what I'd prefer in the end.

The Mazda5 is my daily driver, but my wife drives/rides in it often enough that it has to pass the WAF.

How is the ride on the Sports? What do you have them set at? How easy are they to adjust?
Click to expand...

I've played around with the settings with the Koni Sports from full soft to full hard. Full soft is VERY soft; much softer than the OEM shocks so the ride is quite comfortable but when it comes to spirted driving it feels like the car is rather "lazy". Full hard settings makes for a very harsh ride. The suspension barely compresses. I could feel every rut, pothole and stone on the road. Handles very well, the steering is sharp and precise. But the full hard setting is too rough for daily driving. So right now, I have the fronts set on 1 turn from full hard, and rears 0.5 turns from full hard. (unfortunately I forget how many turns in total from hard to soft)

Adjustability in the front is easy, just pop the hood and use the included knob to turn the shocks. The rear requires the shock to come out which is a bit of a pain. Then the shock needs to be fully compressed to be adjusted.

I would highly recommend the sports just because of their adjustability compared the FSD which aren't adjustable.
 
SandmanXP said:
I'm not much of a tuner, but really want to improve the suspension on my Mazda5. I'm considering Koni FSDs or Koni Yellows. I don't think I want to lower the car much due to the local potholes and because I want to be able to put snow chains on once or twice a year. I'm also interested in sway bars, but don't know how much difference that would make. The sway bars I have found online have been mostly rear which leaves me wondering if the front doesn't need much improvement or if folks are using front sway bars for a Mazda3, since it seems the 3 and 5 can share many of the same parts.

I'm not sure what to consider or what improvements will give me the most bang for the buck. If anyone has any experience they'd like to share, it would be much appreciated. (help)
Click to expand...
Just my opinion. From my experience and what I've read, the best solution for you is 1) a good set of tires, 2) the MS3 rear sway for bang for the buck but this depends on how much you can get it for, 2b) fronts too if you can find it but it's more difficult to install. If you really want (perhaps need if OEM ones are blown) to upgrade shocks, I would suggest 3) Knoi FSDs over the Yellows for OEM springs. Adjustable shocks is overated b/c you'd probably never adjust it once you find a settings that works out for you, which I believe is the optimal compromnise the FSDs offer. Also, everyone has different driving haibts and will learn to adapt to whatever you have. There is a Knoi tech posting in the 'forbidden' forum (Mazda247 does not like them for whatever the reason) the differences between the two and to sum it up, FSD if you are on OEM springs and Yellows on anything aftermarket, which always entials some level of lowering. Reviewers say the FSD ride really good and I can believe it (not cheap either). I recommend you look up that thread and subscribe to ask your specific questions.

If you really want to do it right (gonna cost ya), buy the Bilstein HDs for the Mz3. Send it in to Bilsetin USA and tell them you want it re-valved to match the spring rate of your OEM Mazda springs (you'd have to do some searching) and can add if you want it a tade softer/harder. They will send it back to you with a dyno chart showing you what it is valved too and it now perfectly matched to the Mz5 or whatever you told them you wanted. There are other places that do re-valving too, Fat Cat does but they charge more.

Disclaimer: I've NEVER had or even tested Knoi shocks on any applicaiton but have only read good things about them. I have had KYB AGX, Tokcio Blues, Tokcio Illuminas, and Bilstein HD (not on Mz5 of course). I hate KYB *ALL, Tokico is good, and a fanboi of Bilsteins :). I am waiting for Spring to install the MS3 front/rear bars.
 
Good info Silentnoise713. Thank you.

Yeah, I probably should have gotten a better set of tires when I replaced them a while back, but these have enough life that it will be a while. I'll just drive 'em hard so I can get there sooner.

The size, sliding doors and flexibility of the third row make it a good fit for the family, but my 5 is an '06 Sport with 94K on it and figure I'll be replacing it in a few years - probably with a later used Touring model. I see tweaking my '06 as a proof-of-concept for whatever mods I would do on it's replacement. If I find that I want something more, I'll do it then.

I've been leaning toward the FSDs on stock springs as a good balance between a real sport suspension and OEM. Others have recommended lowering, but my local road conditions are closer to off-roading than the track. As much as "handling like it's on rails" sounds cool, I don't want to feel every bump in the road. I just want it to feel less sloppy and more fun to drive.

My next question is: Is it easy to do the sway bars after doing struts? Or is the installation such that it makes more sense to do struts and sway bars at the same time?
 
wedginator said:
I've done the suspension bits on my 5 already, (shocks, front and rear sway bars, springs). I can safely say the Mazda 3 and 5 share the exact same suspension parts. However I do not recommend Mazda 3 springs on the 5 because the springs would be undersprung and sag especially in the rear. I know H&R makes springs specifically for the 5 if you're looking to upgrade that.

Go for the Koni Sport shocks. They're adjustable and I think they cost more or less the same as the FSD's.

I've also done the front and rear sway bars on the 5 as well. They don't sell sways specifically for the 5, but the ones for the 3 and Mazdaspeed 3 will work. I found just upgrading the rear bars created too much off throttle over steer and felt a bit weird going over uneven pavement surfaces so might as well upgrade the fronts as well. And as expected the sway bars created a stiffer ride so I had to soften the shocks a bit so I don't get jostled around on uneven pavement.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you have the JBR rear sway bar and have tired using it WITHOUT changing the front bar? The JBR RSB is adjustable at 3 preset settings. Even the softest setting is still stiffer than the MS3 RSB! When you tried having just the RSB, what setting was it at? I don't foresee the MS3 RSB alone causing 'too' much drastic over steer. But I like having more over steer than not but you are right that too much snap over steer is bad.


SandmanXP said:
Good info Silentnoise713. Thank you.

Yeah, I probably should have gotten a better set of tires when I replaced them a while back, but these have enough life that it will be a while. I'll just drive 'em hard so I can get there sooner.

The size, sliding doors and flexibility of the third row make it a good fit for the family, but my 5 is an '06 Sport with 94K on it and figure I'll be replacing it in a few years - probably with a later used Touring model. I see tweaking my '06 as a proof-of-concept for whatever mods I would do on it's replacement. If I find that I want something more, I'll do it then.

I've been leaning toward the FSDs on stock springs as a good balance between a real sport suspension and OEM. Others have recommended lowering, but my local road conditions are closer to off-roading than the track. As much as "handling like it's on rails" sounds cool, I don't want to feel every bump in the road. I just want it to feel less sloppy and more fun to drive.

My next question is: Is it easy to do the sway bars after doing struts? Or is the installation such that it makes more sense to do struts and sway bars at the same time?
Click to expand...
RSB is beyond easy (<30 min) and I came across a youtube video before –look it up. The FSB is harder (translate, stuck bolts) b/c you have to drop the front sub frame that is probably rusted to hell. They do not impact one another and can be done separately. At this point, I think you'll be happy with the sway bar upgrade (unless you *need shocks). I cannot say if front and/or back and which bar is suited for you b/c EVERYONE has different expectations. May make sense to do them both since you have tools out or already at a shop but start small and work your way up.

I also like the idea of a car like the Mz5, only wish Mazda or some makes it better. Since you are already planning to get another Mz5, it may make sense to buy the ‘better’ part since you can reuse it. If you spread the cost of the part over the mileage that you get to use/enjoy it, it pays for itself. Also, be sure to buy the car after MCR (mid-cycle refresh so ’08 and new). My opinion, I find that MCR is when all of the major bugs/kinks get sorted out. Any improvement after is just bells and whistles to keep selling the same thing before it reaches the end of its life cycle. Just my opinion...
 
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Sorry to butt in your thread SandmanXP, but I was wondering, would H&R front & rear swaybars work for our cars?
 
figurefive said:
TireRack sells Koni but doesn't return any hits for the FSD on the Mazda5 though Koni lists part number 2100-4045 on their site. Am I correct in assuming that the Mazda5 takes the same shocks/struts as the Mazda3?
Click to expand...

OEM, yes, but Koni has made special shocks for Mazda 5 and MazdaSpeed 3 in Yellows and FSD that's different from Mazda 3.
 
Rally Man said:
Sorry to butt in your thread SandmanXP,
Click to expand...

It's not my thread. It's our thread. There's not a lot of people tuning their 5s, so there's precious little info and I may not know the questions to ask. The more the merrier.

Rally Man said:
would H&R front & rear swaybars work for our cars?
Click to expand...

From what I've found; aftermarket Mazda 3 front and rear sway bars should fit a Mazda 5, but some manufacturers have rear sway bars that are specifically for Mazda 5s. I imagine those are preferable, but may not be that much different, assuming an aftermarket bar for a 3 is still stiffer than an OEM bar for a 5.
 
Okay, more noob questions:

If I decide to replace my struts with FSDs; is that something I can expect my local mechanic or Les Schwab to do without messing something up? Or should I take it to more of a tuner shop?

If I do struts or swaybars or both, but don't lower my 5; will that affect my alignment? Should I have an alignment done at the same time?

(it's not that I'm afraid of turning a wrench, but I can't have the car up on jackstands for several days while I solve a problem and the the last car I really did my own work on was a '67 Corvair)
 
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Im also upgrading everything on my 5 execpt springs, I cannot go any lower than it is...
 
SandmanXP said:
My next question is: Is it easy to do the sway bars after doing struts? Or is the installation such that it makes more sense to do struts and sway bars at the same time?
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter which order you do them. If you plan to do the front sway bar yourself, be prepared for a whole day's work. The subframe needs to be dropped and the bar isn't exactly easy to take out even after unbolting it. Putting the new swaybar in is a bit of work as well.


SandmanXP said:
Okay, more noob questions:

If I decide to replace my struts with FSDs; is that something I can expect my local mechanic or Les Schwab to do without messing something up? Or should I take it to more of a tuner shop?

If I do struts or swaybars or both, but don't lower my 5; will that affect my alignment? Should I have an alignment done at the same time?

(it's not that I'm afraid of turning a wrench, but I can't have the car up on jackstands for several days while I solve a problem and the the last car I really did my own work on was a '67 Corvair)
Click to expand...

Your local mechanic should know what they're doing. The struts are fairly easy.

If you don't lower the car it shouldn't affect the suspension geometry so an alignment isn't needed.
 
Just some pics of my suspension work. Unfortunately I don't have a "how-to". But there are several resources in the Mazda 3 forums that are sufficient. The Mazda 3 suspension how to's are pretty much the same as the 5.

main.php


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main.php


main.php


main.php
 
wedginator said:
Just some pics of my suspension work.
Click to expand...

Those sway bars are clearly beefier. Couldn't help but make a difference. Did you do the end links at the same time? From what I've read, it's a good idea because they are relatively inexpensive and old original links might give out sooner with the stiffer bars.

Thanks to everyone for sharing you experience and knowledge and helping me sort this out. I think I'll be ordering some FSDs shortly.
 
wedginator said:
... Go for the Koni Sport shocks. ...
Click to expand...
Link? I found them at Tire Rack, but I couldn't find the price or a way to buy them.

My suspension is still good on my '09 Mazda5 Sport with about 28,000 miles, but from what I'm reading on these boards and from Consumer Reports, there is a good chance that I'll be doing some suspension work in the future.
 
Heat said:
Link? I found them at Tire Rack, but I couldn't find the price or a way to buy them.

My suspension is still good on my '09 Mazda5 Sport with about 28,000 miles, but from what I'm reading on these boards and from Consumer Reports, there is a good chance that I'll be doing some suspension work in the future.
Click to expand...

I bought mine here: http://www.shox.com/appguide/shoxshop/selectmodel.php Select the Mazda 5 and you'll see the pricing. You can also order from them.

SandmanXP said:
Those sway bars are clearly beefier. Couldn't help but make a difference. Did you do the end links at the same time? From what I've read, it's a good idea because they are relatively inexpensive and old original links might give out sooner with the stiffer bars.

Thanks to everyone for sharing you experience and knowledge and helping me sort this out. I think I'll be ordering some FSDs shortly.
Click to expand...

I upgraded the front end links. But I didn't bother with the rears at the moment. Although I should upgrade them as well. The rear links look very tiny.
 
I've ordered the FSDs. Is there anything else I should bother doing as long as I'm having struts done? Any parts I should be prepared to replace? Maybe bump stops? Anything else I might not think of? If you suggest something a link would be appreciated.
 
For the rest you'll really have to get the suspension apart before you can evaluate what else needs to be replaced. I saw quite a few reports of people replacing their shocks and finding that the OEM mounting hardware (top hats usually) and other pieces were broken. My '09 5 has over 60k on it and we're starting to hear weird noises from the front, plus I can feel that both right side shocks are dead, so instead of just ordering replacement shocks/struts and lowering springs, I decided to get a set of the BC Racing coilovers at a very close price to what a set of Koni Yellows and H&R Sport springs would cost. I'll get all brand new mounting hardware from top to bottom, so if anything comes out broken I won't have to worry about it.

So watch your mounting hardware. :) Check the bushings at all your pivot points while you're in there- it's just a good idea to keep a close eye on those parts. Depending on how the car was maintained, you could have a few bad ones in there (doubt it, but you never know).

After reading this thread, it looks like I'll have to try out my MS3 rear bar without any other mods before I put my coilovers in- then do a double swap again after the coilover install to see how everything matches up again. I didn't want to spend extra cash on two bars, so I just got the MS3 rear and am planning to keep the front. With the higher spring rates in the rear on my coilovers compared to the front (more of an even front/rear ratio than stock) I should dump some understeer just from the new springs too.
 
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