timing issue/P0300/rough idle

T

therris

Member
:
2003 Protege5
Hello all.
2003 Protege5
132k manual trans

Just replaced the timing belt, head gasket, water pump, belts, spark plugs and whatever other gaskets I cam across in the process. Got the thing back together and had to replace the head gasket again. Got it all back together and everything is tight and no leaks. Car idles rough after warming up so that stopping at lights & signs can kill the engine (at about 700 rpm). Starts right back up though so I have to feather the gas at stops.

Saw the EGR threads so I took mine off and cleaned it all day with carb cleaner, brakleen and sea foam. Got it as clean as possible. Back together and now it idles even lower at lights and signs. I'll put in the clutch as I approach and the tach pretty much goes straight to zero. But no CEL coming on now.

I checked the timing as best I could figure on a disty-less car (loop the #1 lead and shine the light) and, while the manual says it should be at about 10 BTDC, my crankshaft mark was showing up anywhere from TDC to maybe 12 BTDC, NOTHING CONSISTENT. I've only done timing on an 88 Ford Festiva with a disty so it was adjustable and regular. I'm not sure if this crankshaft mark is supposed to be bouncing around like this or not. I would think it would remain consistent if the engine continues to run, albeit very roughly. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Why did you have to re-replace the head gasket?

Can you double check your timing belt marks?
 
Had to re-replace the head gasket because I misunderstood the manual, and I reused my original head bolts. The bolts were within the acceptable length, but when I put them back on I torqued them to spec, but I didn't stretch them with the 2 90 degree turns, so I had a lose head for a few weeks of driving.

I'll try to check the timing marks again this week.
 
Your code is a random misfire detection. Checking the ignition with a timing light will
show bouncing timing indication until the misfire problem is corrected.

At the top of this forum is a link to the Protege shop manual. Look on page 01-02B-72 for a long list of possible misfire causes. Ignition timing and cam timing aren't listed as possible causes for a random misfire.

I would be looking for things like bad ignition wires, coil pack, vacuum leaks or improper connections. As I said the list is long.

Clifton
 
After the loose head incident, did you ensure that your head was not warped?

Did you do a compression test on all cylinders?
 
my guess wouldstill be the EGR valve. i never had good sucess cleaning my EGR. cleaning it may well help it seat better, but it wont help the solenoid action of the valve. it may be sticking in the solenoid portion. try replacing it, and see if that helps.
 
I doubt it's the EGR unless his car didn't run right before he did all of this work to it.

BTW - check the IAC.
 
im still going with the EGR. depending on how low it sat not running it could have been long enough to cause an issue. plus, with 130+k miles on the car, its about due to be replaced anyway.

i've had mine go at least twice since i've owned the car. i know what the symptoms are, and cleaning it is not always effective.
 
flash75 said:
At the top of this forum is a link to the Protege shop manual. Look on page 01-02B-72 for a long list of possible misfire causes. Ignition timing and cam timing aren't listed as possible causes for a random misfire.

I would be looking for things like bad ignition wires, coil pack, vacuum leaks or improper connections. As I said the list is long.

Clifton
Click to expand...
I think I found the list and worked my way through it as best I could. Step 8 involves the timing light. It asks if "all cylinders" blinked. I could only check for 1&3 as they're the ones with the high tension leads. They blink but not on time as I mentioned. I checked the coils and leads and they were all within spec.

Kooldino said:
After the loose head incident, did you ensure that your head was not warped?

Did you do a compression test on all cylinders?
Click to expand...
Didn't ensure it, but it's holding tight now. No leaks or anything. I'll test the compression tonight hopefully.

Kooldino said:
BTW - check the IAC.
Click to expand...
I'll do that.

P-Funk! said:
Me? I would suspect a vacuum leak.
Click to expand...
I've thought that too, but I haven't found one yet. I think I can hear one, but I've sprayed around with carb cleaner and never get a reaction from the engine.

Thanks for all the help. I'll see if I can find out anything new tonight.

Jason
 
Well to add to the symptoms, it's overheating. The CEL came on this morning. When I got it home yesterday I could hear it blowing steam from the overflow when I parked it. I heard it again at lunch. It started getting hot on the way home. Here is the history of the overheating.

First in December. I figured it was a bad tstat so I changed it. Everything fine until February when it overheated again on a road trip. I changed the tstat again to get it home and assumed it could be the water pump which I changed in April, along with the 1st head gasket and timing belt and all that business. It overheated when I broke down at the beginning of May but I filed that under the head gasket being bad/my not tightening the head bolts enough. But now it's doing it again, same symptoms, but at least this afternoon I got some warning from the temp gauge.

Any ideas? Not the tstat or the water pump. One shop I talked to about it said it could be a faulty temp sensor. Anyone know anything about that? I'm checking the compression tonight and report back any findings.

Thanks for your help.
 
The idling problems at stop lights sound like a vacuum leak to me because I just had this exact problem last week. Since you've started overheating have there been anymore codes coming up in the CELs?
 
el_Don said:
The idling problems at stop lights sound like a vacuum leak to me because I just had this exact problem last week. Since you've started overheating have there been anymore codes coming up in the CELs?
Click to expand...
Just the P0300, but that didn't come up until last week. I haven't checked the one that came up today. I'll take it to Advanced Auto and get it checked here in a little bit. I'm going to do a compression check and check the IAC as well before I do that. We'll see if anything new comes up.
 
Did compression test.

#1 - 150 psi
#2 - 148 psi
#3 - 140 psi
#4 - 177 psi

All are well over minimum, but that last is out of the maximum 28 psi difference between cylinders. What's that tell me?

Also, looking down in the cylinders, three look damp (think it's oil) and one is dry as a bone. Is that bad? When I looked down in there before I did the head gasket I could tell it was water down in there. It shook and stuff.

Any ideas/suggestions. My wifes about ready to take it in.

Jason
 
Running smooth now. Timing belt on the intake cam was advanced a couple of teeth. put it on correctly and it runs nice and smooth. Doesn't seem to have as much pep as it used to (quickness from 0, acceleration). Got a rattle coming from the timing belt casing though. I think my timing belt tensioner is loose or something. Something's slapping in there.
 
therris said:
Running smooth now. Timing belt on the intake cam was advanced a couple of teeth. put it on correctly and it runs nice and smooth. Doesn't seem to have as much pep as it used to (quickness from 0, acceleration). Got a rattle coming from the timing belt casing though. I think my timing belt tensioner is loose or something. Something's slapping in there.
Click to expand...

this fixed your idle??
 
Yeah. Timing was off. Was too proud at first to check it after I got the covers and all back on, but got everything aligned correctly and it runs fine.

Fixed the rattle too. Got the covers off and listened around for the rattle. Seemed like it was coming from forward of the timing belt and tensioners. Thought "Well I could tighten up the water pump pulley bolts maybe." Went around the bolts and one of them was loose. Tightened it up and everythings fine now. Took it on a 4 hour round trip road trip and it ran fine and good.

Overheating issue seemed to have been caused by using water only rather than adding coolant. I only used coolant to keep the thing from freezing, but it seems as though it keeps it from boiling over too. Never thought I ran it hard enough to need it on the hot side, but I was wrong.

Anyway, smooth running now. Thanks for all your help.
 
Damn! Thanks for all the valuable info. Im having the same symptoms with my engine and the first thing i thought was the belt. Saves me cash and headaches as well. Thanks for posting
 
therris said:
Yeah. Timing was off. Was too proud at first to check it after I got the covers and all back on, but got everything aligned correctly and it runs fine.

Fixed the rattle too. Got the covers off and listened around for the rattle. Seemed like it was coming from forward of the timing belt and tensioners. Thought "Well I could tighten up the water pump pulley bolts maybe." Went around the bolts and one of them was loose. Tightened it up and everythings fine now. Took it on a 4 hour round trip road trip and it ran fine and good.

Overheating issue seemed to have been caused by using water only rather than adding coolant. I only used coolant to keep the thing from freezing, but it seems as though it keeps it from boiling over too. Never thought I ran it hard enough to need it on the hot side, but I was wrong.

Anyway, smooth running now. Thanks for all your help.
Click to expand...

how did you go about checking your timing?
 
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