Recording of Engine Knock / Rattle Noise in new CX-9: Help Needed

What are you guys defining as "cold - not-warmed-up"? Is this in minutes, miles or temp gauge reading?

Also, what is the boards general opinion of how many miles it takes to fully break-in the CX9. Mine has approx 3100 miles...

"Cold" was defined by temp gauge not in the middle yet as said in prior posts by the OP. (or coolant temp below 193F - stable temp)
Break-in period is anywhere between 500-1000 miles depending on vehicle. The number for CX9 can be found in the Owner's manual. At 3100, yours is way past that.
 
The knocking in my case has happened with both cold and warm'ed up engine. The knock is very slight right off the line and then goes away with increase in rpms. Going to do some investigation today and see if it's really a knock or a something else. Been observing the situation really close in the last couple of days, I am leaning more towards harmonics rather a knock. Maybe I loose exhaust shield or something.
 
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Wow, I'm glad I found this thread. My car has been making this noise for weeks now, it started around 8K miles. It's been at the dealer for two days--both the service manager and tech could hear the sound, which occurs at low RPMs under load. They told me it was engine knock, but they're not sure how to fix it. More to come tomorrow. This is very disheartening to hear, as it sounds like no one has had any luck fixing this issue. I also did some research (wikipidia, etc) and most sources say that knock can be really bad for the engine b/c it creates high cylinder pressures.
 
How many of you that have experienced this knocking are using and have been using ethanol based gas? Were the mazda engines, fuel systems, plugs designed for ethanol-based gas or retrofited when Ethanol was introduced as a supplement?
 
An update:

After hearing my recording, the parts and service director at Ron Tonkin and I took a (long) drive over to Happy Valley (thanks for that BTW) to try the grades there where my even-warmed-up CX9 knocked convincingly lugging uphill @ 30 MPH in 4th.

Thinking maybe a simple rattle, Ron Tonkin first tried to do the brake booster bracket fix under warranty, which has been suggested by others in this forum and is apparently an unofficial TSB, so a good attempt, but that didn't resolve the problem.

Ron Tonkin has been great but says there is nothing more they can do. They haven't been given the go ahead to do any more diagnosis or repair by Mazda Corporate? I phoned Mazda Corporate customer service and the front line operator verified this as Mazda's decision! I asked to speak to a Mazda Corporate customer service supervisor and she is going to call me back (hopefully tomorrow at this point).

If anybody else has a CX9 with this "detonation under load at low RPM problem" please let me know the dealership that is working on it and specifics on the case. I was told by front line customer service that apparently if I can let Mazda Corporate know of more cars with the same problem that will help my situation? gte331r where are you?

Thanks. More to come...
 
I thought I had a detonation problem, but Mazda in las vegas just fixed the vacuum hose booster bracket. that's what listed on my repair order. so far no knocking!
 
Anyone has a pic of this vacuum booster bracket? In the last few days, I did a thorough search for possible loose heat shields/exhaust noises to see if that could possibly be the source of my "knock". However, everything is tight and noise free. Yesterday, I decided to give 93 octane fuel a shot with a can of BG44K to clean out any possible carbon deposits. So far, after 100 miles, no knock at all. Has any one tried a higher octane fuel like 92/93?
 
benben01---
You've got a MS3 and a CX-9! I also have a MS3, 2007 with 35K miles on it. My wife actually hates driving it (too noisy and "jerky" which I think is her word for tight handling). But I like driving the CX-9, it's a nice smooth car.

I'm not sure about the location of the bracket. You should bring it in to the dealer. There shouldn't be any reason you have to use premium gas.
 
drblanke, lemon law!! nuff said. if they can't find the problem and they can't fix it on(direct) 3 attempts.good luck we're with you.
 
benben01---
You've got a MS3 and a CX-9! I also have a MS3, 2007 with 35K miles on it. My wife actually hates driving it (too noisy and "jerky" which I think is her word for tight handling). But I like driving the CX-9, it's a nice smooth car.

I'm not sure about the location of the bracket. You should bring it in to the dealer. There shouldn't be any reason you have to use premium gas.

Hey Sandman! My MS3 is my DD and the wife hates just like yours. Mines modded too and it's even more annoying to her :) Any how, the premium gas seems to take care of the knock. However, I noticed the mild knock again when pulling into my driveway on regular unleaded.
 
"vacuum hose booster bracket."

Any idea where it is located?
I can't seem to find it in my WorkShop manual.
I know there are several vacuum hoses attached to the engine. Maybe if we trace it backward, we could find this booster and its bracket.
 
Another update

Apparently Mazda knows about detonation issues with CX-9s. They
are working on an engine controller update for it. Ron Tonkin is going
to let me know when it is available. It certainly would be nice if the
fix is just an easy simple flash for the ECU.

For now I am putting the car in manual mode and downshifting into
3rd for higher RPMs on the hill. That puts less load on the engine,
avoids whatever problem range the buggy ECU currently has, and
prevents the detonation.

Not the best news, but I am still hopeful.
 
Apparently Mazda knows about detonation issues with CX-9s. They
are working on an engine controller update for it. Ron Tonkin is going
to let me know when it is available. It certainly would be nice if the
fix is just an easy simple flash for the ECU.

For now I am putting the car in manual mode and downshifting into
3rd for higher RPMs on the hill. That puts less load on the engine,
avoids whatever problem range the buggy ECU currently has, and
prevents the detonation.

Not the best news, but I am still hopeful.

Drblanke,

What yr is your CX9? Thx
 
drblanke,
If a TSB comes out of your effort on this issue,
you will be my hero for one day.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
 
The only knocking sound I hear is when my wife first starts the car and the engine is cold. The engine sounds like it's knocking, not sure if anyone has witnessed this. She doesn't even hear it or tell me about it, she has just under 4k miles.
 
Sorry – it has been a long time between posts. I see there has been significant activity on this thread since I last posted. Here is an update.

Earlier this summer, I had Japanese engineers come to my house and drive up the hill in my vehicle. The regional technical specialist has come as well on a couple of occasions. I cannot say enough good things about this technical specialist as he has been very professional and attentive. I didn’t interact with the Japanese engineers, so I do not mean that previous comment to imply they were any way, shape, or form unprofessional. I just haven’t interacted with them directly. In fact, the reality that they were willing to fly out and come to my house is a strong statement otherwise (they remained out in the car while the reg. tech. specialist came to my door to get the CX-9). I just intended the previous comment to be a sincere compliment to the regional technical specialist. Mazda has a got a very good one with him and is lucky to have him.

At any rate, Mazda acknowledged the engine knock. I provided them with a DVD of the underhood microphone recording and a DVD video simultaneously recorded using my Sony Handycam within the cabin. The Handycam rested on the dash and looked out the windshield while driving. The mic on the Sony Handycam did pick-up the engine knock; it just wasn't naturally as distinct as the recording from the underhood microphone. Regardless, the two recordings perfectly correlated to one another nonetheless. I also had a colleague perform sound analysis to prove the recordings were one in the same, and to further help Mazda, I had him overlay the underhood recording to the Handycam video recording to create a new movie file to show exactly what the terrain looked like when the engine knock occurred.

So in summary, I provided Mazda with (1) the original sound and video from the Sony Handycam recorded inside the cabin while driving, (2) the simultaneous USB underhood microphone recording plugged into my laptop sitting on the passenger seat, and (3) a digital combination of the Sony Handycam video overlaid with the underhood microphone recording for further diagnosis.

As for the video, it went well beyond the recording of just the engine knock events alone. It also showed the complete setup for the underhood microphone (including the start-up and stop of the recording from the underhood microphone), the vehicle mileage, date (further supporting by recording turning on my cell phone), the gas in the tank (including recording exactly where I got the gas, the gas being pumped into the vehicle, and the type of gas put in the vehicle), the engine shutdown after recording the engine knock demonstration, and complete post-test inspection of the setup to prove nothing was disturbed during recording.

Also, the Japanese sampled gas from my local station (I went out of my way to fill with gas that had no ethanol in it -- not just for the sake of the CX-9 -- but for all my vehicles. You could do it back in the late spring / early summer, but now it is very hard to find a station that does not have ethanol. As previously mentioned, part of my video recording provided to them documented exactly where and what type of gas I was putting in my vehicle prior to demonstrating the engine knock). I never heard back regarding the results of the gas sample, but I assume it was deemed "normal". While I didn't offer it and they didn't ask, I also had additional DVD recordings/ underhood microphone recordings documenting engine knock with full tanks of gas used from a couple of different gas stations and gas companies. However, since it was a non-issue, I concluded it was unnecessary to provide. I just had it as back-up in case I needed it. I hate to sound so cynical as my experience with Mazda Corporate has been very good thus far, it was just that my experience with my local dealer was so awful it drove me to this point / level of documentation. Trust me – this was NOT my first course of action or first choice. But after the brake booster runaround (didn’t apply to my vehicle), denial of the knock, an unwillingness to help, horrible communication (kept vehicle for two weeks and never bothered to call to say it was ready), and multiple experiences of all the above, my trust bank was on empty with the local dealership. Again, now working with Mazda Corporate directly, it has been a complete 180 and a very positive experience.

So long story short, I got a new engine. Mazda shipped the engine from Japan for my CX-9 in the early summer. The old engine was pulled and shipped to Japan for further analysis and the new engine installed. We’ve put about 6,000 miles on the new engine and thus far have not heard any engine knock. I have not gone so far as to put the USB microphone back under the hood, but I can say thus far I no longer hear the engine knock inside the cabin. Whether an official TSB is posted or not out of this is TBD. I suspect we are a guinea pig for a solution for vehicles that experience this problem, and I am happy to work with Mazda on a solution. The number of vehicles affected is between the general public and Mazda – I have no idea. I just know our vehicle was one of them. With any luck, the new engine will continue to not knock and be a permanent solution.

As for the underhood microphone recordings, it is very simple to do. USB microphones are inexpensive and easy to get (try Amazon and see for yourself). Just secure / tape the mic near your battery, run the cable out the back of your hood and in the passenger side door (just close the door over the cable), and plug into a laptop. It is really just that simple. However, sounds like folks have got some very good recordings just using their cell phones under the hood. Pretty much the same idea with no laptop required.

If anything changes in our experience or if there are new developments, I will let everyone know.
 
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I'm glad to hear that Mazda did something, and thank you for all the work you've done for a possible solution the rest of us might benefit from.
 
It is nice to know that Mazda is standing behind their product.
Dealers on the other hand varies quite a lot in your capability in fixing issues and service.
 
Just an update from my knocking experience. In the last 3 months, the knocking is only noticable when the enigne is cold and accelerating with load. This only happens with 87 octane. In the last 4 fill ups, I have been using 92/93 octane and the no issues with knocking even with a cold engine. BTW, mine is an 08 manf. date 09/08 with 16K on the clock.
 
Just curious. Has anyone with the knocking issue tried new spark plugs?

Back in the day I had a similar issue with a Honda. It only happened under load and it turned out to be a fouled spark plug.
 
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