Thinking about jumping into STS(2)

gottacatchup

Member
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2003 MP5
So as the title state I've recently been considering trying to pick up a miata and go play in STS, or possibly ES. I figured this would be the best place to start asking questions so here goes.

How much should I think about paying? Im ok with buying either a prepped car or something thats still stock and doing the work myself, so what should I expect to budget for either scenario?

Are there anything in particular I should pay attention to when finding a good miata? This won't be a daily driver and probably only driven to events and back, but what are the usual trouble spots or repairs that should definitely have been made?

And finally where's the best place to start looking for one? Also attached to that what's the best year/model for STS?

I there are alot of guys here with alot of great experience and knowledge bout these cars so anything you can give me would be a great help.
 
I don't really know all the details, but I'll start the conversation...
For ES the preferred Miata is the "R" package. Not easy to find but not impossible either. I think they were made in 94-96. I think the advantage with the R-package is that it came stock with adjustable swaybars front and rear.
For STS, the most nationally competitive ones are the 1.6L (90-92). something about being able to use a different differential than the later cars.
That said, I have seen some pretty fast Miatas that were not the "preferred" models for their class. I guess it depends on how competitive you want to be. But hey, if you are starting fresh and looking to buy, you might as well get the good one!

I am sure others know all the details and can help more.

I happen to know of a 95 Miata Leather package, run in ES, that is up for sale- Konis, Front Sway bar (flying miata I think), and extra wheels with Kumhos. The car belongs to my parents (in FL) who are looking to sell it since they have a more purpose-built autocrosser now.
 
for ES, the R ('94-'97) is the way to go. expect to pay ~$5K or more for a clean one. for CS, a '99 w/ the Sport package is a great choice.

for STS...my advice would be to buy the nicest one ('90-'97) you can afford. you can get a well-prepped STS miata for $4-5k, or a decently-prepped one (like mine) for less. it's always cheaper to buy a prepped car than to build one yourself.

if you're building one, a reasonable budget is:
shocks: Koni Sports ($550)
sleeves: Koni (~$100) or eBay (~$40)
springs: any reputable type, 6" length. used Eibach ERS springs can be had for $60/pair ($120). rates: 400f/250r or 550f/350r are competitive and still streetable, and workable w/ the Koni Sports.
sway bars: RB Hollow front ($100), adjustable endlinks ($80). stock rear.
wheels: 15x7 or 15x7.5. Kosei K1-TS (7) (~$600), TRM C1M (7.5) (~$400), or 949Racing 6UL (7.5) ($~700). used are cheaper, obviously.
tires: there are a number of options, including B-Stone RE-11 (195/50 or 205/50), Toyo R1R (205/50 or 225/45), Kumho XS (205/50). expect to pay ~$500-600.

so figure ~$2000-2500 for suspension and shoes. of course, you should also make sure everything else on the car is in good shape and working properly (plugs/wires, radiator, WP, belts/hoses, brakes).

that's all you "need." also nice are a header (~$400), exhaust (~$400), hi-flow cat (~$100), intake (~$100-200), and a programmable ECU.

what year? most people have been running the '90-'93 1.6 cars (which can use the OE viscous LSD and are ~100lbs lighter), but some have recently been having success w/ the '94-'97 1.8s (which make a lot more torque, esp in the midrange). you can't really go wrong w/ either.

STS, IMO, hits a sweet spot of cost, speed, and modifying/tinkering ability. plus (unlike r-comps) a set of tires will last you more than one season if you're not putting a lot of street miles on them.
 
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I had heard that the Koni's need to be shortend if you are using them in a lowered application. Otherwise you basically ride on the bumpstops. Any truth in that? I think the Koni SP3's (is that what they are called?), are already shortend and revalved for coilovers, whereas the regular off the shelf Koni's are designed for Stock springs.
 
I had heard that the Koni's need to be shortend if you are using them in a lowered application. Otherwise you basically ride on the bumpstops. Any truth in that? I think the Koni SP3's (is that what they are called?), are already shortend and revalved for coilovers, whereas the regular off the shelf Koni's are designed for Stock springs.

well, you have to choose the lesser of 2 evils. With the standard konis, you won't be able to lower it too far without running into the bumpstops. Also, they can't handle the spring rates it would take to keep you off the bump stops.

With the koni RACEs (SSP3 or whatever the f it is), they are shortened and can handle some serious spring. The problem that we've found is that to get enough droop travel to prevent bottoming out the shock, you have to be lowered pretty darn far. And to lower it far enough, your camber curves go all sorts of crazy and handling goes to crap. Car likes to be really snappy and unpredictable, transitioning between understeer and oversteer as the rear camber and toe change significantly within a relatively small amount of travel. There are a couple possible solutions depending on how creative you are. You can use an alternate rear upper control arm as allowed by STS rules, but those are prohibitively expensive, especially with a budget build. On the other hand, you could go the route we did and use offset upper or lower outer bushings to enable you to dial in more POSITIVE static camber in the rear. You still get a lot of camber change, you you at least have it changing within a more acceptable range. Doing that increased our rear contact patch mid corner and, at least for me, practically transformed the car from one that was really skittish and unpredictable, into a tool I am confident to really attack a course with.




Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought it would be... hope it helps!
 
I had heard that the Koni's need to be shortend if you are using them in a lowered application. Otherwise you basically ride on the bumpstops. Any truth in that? I think the Koni SP3's (is that what they are called?), are already shortend and revalved for coilovers, whereas the regular off the shelf Koni's are designed for Stock springs.

Koni Sports are OK up to 500-550lbs. with 550s on the front, i am happy w/ my Sports, but wouldn't go any stiffer on them, and would step up to Race valving if i was going to get very serious in STS. (as it is, i'll probably jump in an NC miata to the new proposed STR class.)

the miata has very little suspension travel (it's actually designed to corner on the stops), so any lowering will have you constantly on the bumpstops unless you do something to regain the travel. my route was to use shorter, progressive bumpstops and swap to the NB-style miata top mounts, which provide a lot more travel (and a little lowering) over the NA-style mounts. between the tops and the bumpstops, i regained much of what i had lost in lowering. between the regained travel and the stiffer (550/340) springs, i rarely hit the stops except over big, sharp bumps, and when i do, it's much less harsh of an impact than i got with my worn-out stock rubber bumpstops. it's streetable, but getting to the edge, esp considering the roads i have to drive to work every day, which are nice and curvy but also composed almost entirely of frost heaves and patched potholes.

my ride height (hub to fender lip is between 12.25-12.5" front and rear, which is about 1-1.5" lower than stock, i believe.
 
Two things. I autocrossed BJ Proteges, and earlier on, some 2nd Gen Escorts (AKA 1st gen Protege) in HS and DSP, and later in STS for many years. But when I switched to a '91 Miata (in STS-2) in 2006, nothing could prepare me for the sheer FUN of RWD, especially the fun offered by a Miata. It's a whole new world (and learning curve). And if you opt for the Koni's definitely do the NB upper mount conversion. The added travel is well worth it.

PS: Love that quote beefsupreme22! Remember when the drivers were fat, and the tires were skinny?
 
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