CulRidr's MP3 N/A build (~150whp goal)

CulRidr

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Contributor
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Laser Blue MP3
Alright so it's my turn to start my build thread, so here it is.

My piston rings are shot, and so are my valve seals, and decided that I didn't want to have any uncertainty in terms of dropping in a junkyard engine, so I'm going with the expensive route of having mine entirely rebuilt. It has close to 120,000miles on it, and although it was running like butter last year, it went downhill in the fall after the timing belt service was done to it and a new cam (FS-H9) was dropped in. Not sure if it was coincidence or not, especially with how hard I pushed the car this past summer through autoX (including one event about 2 weeks after the service was done), but I digress.

So considering the engine will be entirely apart, I figured I would play around with it and do the "standard mods"...this is what I have planned:

Small updates to 1st post. And I'm starting to get some things together, and this is what engine work I foresee will happen:
Engine overbore by 0.5mm
Full block cleaning/painting (to finally get rid of all that surface rust)
Crankshaft cleaning/polishing
Speedcircuit stage 2 head
Head milled
Custom machining job to fit Twiggys with proper valve lash, valve sniping, etc.
Full rotating assembly balancing

With that, I'll be going with:
10.4:1 compression pistons
new (stock) rods
a full rebuild kit
Twiggys
cam gears from Focus' GB
custom 4-2-1 looong-tube header
the full Medieval pulley set I already have
full Medieval motor mount set
Fidanza flywheel
Exedy stock clutch
welded MSP LSD
AWR oil pan
new oil pump
Flex-a-lite oil cooler
NSN spacers​

My suspension is essentially complete, and the brakes have been slightly upgraded with better pads, SS lines and and MSP front setup. In terms of tuning, I have the MP3 ECU and an N/A MPI, but will sell those and install a custom reflashed ECU. Most of the info you want to know in terms of my mods are in my sig, but feel free to ask if you have more questions.

Parts are being sourced right now, with everything coming together around mid-April, with the rebuild occurring in late April or early May.

Feel free to post any comments, criticism, suggestions and/or questions :)
 
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I would hurry up on the getting funds for MicroTech.....and get it off
the manufacturer site in Austrailia. Exchange rates are really good for us right now.

$1195 Australian (LT10s) = $768 US

Your not gonna get a better deal unless the Australian dollor loses more ground on the US dollar
 
Ya, except the exchange rate to CAD brings it back up to nearly a grand. And between this and other projects for the car, I'm dropping 6 grand in the car in the next couple of months...
 
Sounds like a fun build man, I wouldn't mess with the MPI and go straight to microtech or haltech. Are you going to upgrade the rods?
 
Ya, except the exchange rate to CAD brings it back up to nearly a grand. And between this and other projects for the car, I'm dropping 6 grand in the car in the next couple of months...

DOH.......forgot you were in CA.....sorry
 
Unless someone can actually show that I NEED them, I won't. I just won't be pushing enough horsepower to warrant it, and am not planning on going "nuts" with the RPM band...7k at the most. And I don't have unlimited funds either...
 
$6k for 150whp...I thought $20k was bad for 350-400whp but I think that's worse!?

Good Luck with the build man!! :)
 
^actually it's 5 grand...the other grand is for other goodies such as autoX wheels, brake upgrade and a secret project (and remember, that's in Canadian money...which with the parts I'm buying would mean about 4 grand or so in USD). And don't forget, the engine will essentially be brand new with few parts being reused...
Here's the breakdown as I see it now:

Parts
Rebuild kit 802
Piston setup 481
Valve Springs 0?
Clutch 180
Flywheel 251
Motor Mounts 300
Exhaust Camshaft 262
Sub-total 2276

Labour
Engine boring 140
Camshaft polishing 75
Engine cleaning 100
3angle valve job 500
In/Out Labour 1600
Sub-total 2729
TOTAL 5005 (plus about 100$ of shipping charges)
 
I'll push this point again (push it everytime I see an NA engine build) - spend the extra cash and go for longer rods, with custom pistons with a raised wrist pin. This will reduce piston acceleration which tears motors apart at high RPM. Also if you plan on spinning the motor hard, get it balanced/blue printed to tighter tolerances. Balancing is usually paid for by the hour (at least it is here) - the more time, the better the balance, with obvious diminishing returns. Vibration, and piston acceleration will be the enemy of a high revving build.

with anything NA, you've really only got a small handful of places to increase power. You cannot appreciably increase displacement, so you generally chase higher compression and more revs. 7500rpm would be achievable without going to extreme on connecting rods. something like an sr20 conrod modified to fit would be fine. You also get an oversized wrist pin with this kind of combination, and since you'll need custom pistons, you can decide the compression ratio which best suites your build.

Bare in mind also, the jspec intake cam is fairly lame. They are to stock cams in the motors as delivered here in australia, and they run out of puff on an NA build very quickly (about 5800 to 6200rpm) - if you plan on spinning the engine harder than stock redline (and with a built motor, you would be somewhat foolish not to take it to at least 7k) you're going to want something bigger. High compression will help with the nasty side of big cams because the higher static compression will trade off against the loss in dynamic compression.

you must, you must, you must sort out management for the engine. There are huge amounts of power to be unlocked on the timing side alone, and it is unlikely the stock computer is going to put up with any sort of "extreme" alterations - if it does put up with them, it is equally unlikely that the poor tune will negate many of the gains you'll get from the work done.

Any computer that will control fuel + timing will do, but the microtech is recommended purely because of the amount of people who have already done it - its a proven solution and very easy to use/tune yourself.

header: the only "really good one" is the one you get made for your build. The AWR is ok. The autoexe is even better - but at the end of the day, dropping a large lump of change on a custom piece is the only way to go if you want the most out of it. But if that is too rich for your blood, trawl auction sites and look for the autoexes....get one that looks dirty and s*** for cheap, sand it back and polish, and it'll look sensational. You can then improve the merge by adding a megaphone/expansion pipe to hook it up to a full 2.5in exhaust system. Another option is an australian made header called a "pacemaker", which is 4 into 1, but not quit equal length runners. I've only seen pics and they could do with a couple of hundred bucks worth of modifications to make better, but they do look like a good alternative, and they are not that pricey! (shipping will be the killer though).

you haven't given us a power goal, and I know it sounds like i'm adding to your shopping list but consider this: (1) you don't want to open the engine up again any time soon, so get as much done while its apart. sell a kidney, or live off noodles for a few months, but get it done right first time. (2) jimmysuite went pretty much the same way you're going, only with microtech, a more agressive set of cams, and more head work - but still stock rods, and jdm pistons, and he's topping out somewhere in the high 150hp range at the hoops - not saying his build is bad, quite the contrary, its pretty much exactly what he wants (well, short 25hp of his goal) but with a few simple additions you could make 175 comfortably (long rods, slightly higher compression, decent header), with daily driven reliability.

keep us posted, and let us know which way you plan to go! :)
 
Well, I'll start off by saying that my goal is in my thread title ;)

As for the rest, I've read every big thread of the 100whp/L contest and have read everything you just wrote time and again.

I've just inquired about getting the engine balanced (crank pulley, flywheel, crank, rods and pistons, and I'm looking at 3-400CAD, which in my opinion will be completely worth it).
  • The MPI can do both timing and fuel management, so I'll start with that for now, and if I ever see a really good deal on a Microtech down the line (maybe when the dollar props back up again), I'll jump on board, but can't go nuts ALL at once...
  • For the header, not sure where I'm going with that yet, but that will again be something I wait for the "right item". I've only ever seen an Autoexe for sale ONCE in the last 6 years, so I'm not exactly banking on it, and paying 1500$ for a new one is out of the question. If you could give me an idea on the price for a pacesetter, maybe we can talk. Would like to hear some more info about them. Looked them up, and they unfortunately don't have anything for the 2.0L probe...
  • For the cams, it really does come down to cost honestly. I'm going with the "JDM" cams for now as I have found them to flow decently, and 180USD VS over 700USD is a BIG deal right now, and changing cams is a LOT easier then changing the bottom end, so if I were to do spend BIG bucks on anything, it would be the bottom end. For now, I'll keep the valvetrain intact and save some money there. I'm sure the cams will still flow over 7000, just not as well as more aggressive cams. 150whp with my setup is achievable as a local guy did it with a tune, a cheap header/exhaust, intake, AEM FIC, HC pistons, FSH9, and a fully balanced engine. I'll have more then that.
Right now the biggest question I want info on is these SR20 rods with custom pistons. I can't seem to find anything in terms of info on these on the boards beyond the small amount you wrote in the original contest thread.
I've seen a lot of eagle rods for ~320USD, and I'm assuming I'd spend about half of that on making them fit to the FSDE (the custom pistons would use the stock wrist-pin size of the rods?). And what would I be looking at in ballpark price for the custom pistons? This would give me an idea of feasibility. I'm looking at a redline of 7000-7200rpm at most, so not even sure it's really worth it VS stock rods & 10.4:1 pistons.

if you need a hand with anything let me know!
subbn!
If you have some sort of garage, I may ask for your help with some brake work :)
And I'd love to see your car (and all those goodies you have waiting)!
 
Well, I'll start off by saying that my goal is in my thread title ;)
so it is ;) in all honesty, 150hp is doable with bolt ons....and it may be cheaper to get an engine from a junk yard and drop all the coin on management, cams, manifolds, and a little head work...but you've said you don't want to do that because of reliability thing so we'll assume you are building for safety..

As for the rest, I've read every big thread of the 100whp/L contest and have read everything you just wrote time and again.

[*]For the header, not sure where I'm going with that yet, but that will again be something I wait for the "right item". I've only ever seen an Autoexe for sale ONCE in the last 6 years, so I'm not exactly banking on it, and paying 1500$ for a new one is out of the question. If you could give me an idea on the price for a pacesetter, maybe we can talk. Would like to hear some more info about them. Looked them up, and they unfortunately don't have anything for the 2.0L probe...
the pacemaker is for the "astina" or something I think... 2L fsde - it should work. as for cost I believe from memory you get change out of $400 australian for it...plus shipping. They wont deal directly though so you'll need to go through an australian exhaust shop - i'm happy to liase with some shops for if you chose to go this way.

[*]For the cams, it really does come down to cost honestly. I'm going with the "JDM" cams for now as I have found them to flow decently, and 180USD VS over 700USD is a BIG deal right now, and changing cams is a LOT easier then changing the bottom end, so if I were to do spend BIG bucks on anything, it would be the bottom end. For now, I'll keep the valvetrain intact and save some money there. I'm sure the cams will still flow over 7000, just not as well as more aggressive cams. 150whp with my setup is achievable as a local guy did it with a tune, a cheap header/exhaust, intake, AEM FIC, HC pistons, FSH9, and a fully balanced engine. I'll have more then that.
true you can change cams easilly - it will cost you a retune though ...
Right now the biggest question I want info on is these SR20 rods with custom pistons. I can't seem to find anything in terms of info on these on the boards beyond the small amount you wrote in the original contest thread.
I've seen a lot of eagle rods for ~320USD, and I'm assuming I'd spend about half of that on making them fit to the FSDE (the custom pistons would use the stock wrist-pin size of the rods?). And what would I be looking at in ballpark price for the custom pistons? This would give me an idea of feasibility. I'm looking at a redline of 7000-7200rpm at most, so not even sure it's really worth it VS stock rods & 10.4:1 pistons.
the required machining is to get the big end width in spec to fit the fsde crank... they just need to take a bit of width off it - i had it done for a guy here a while back and it was fairly cheap. Wrist pin size needs to macth the sr20 rod - which is quite a bit larger than the fsde rod (can't remember exatly though) - custom pistons are going to be a fair bit more pricey but worth it imho.
 
so it is ;) in all honesty, 150hp is doable with bolt ons....and it may be cheaper to get an engine from a junk yard and drop all the coin on management, cams, manifolds, and a little head work...but you've said you don't want to do that because of reliability thing so we'll assume you are building for safety..
Building for safety, reliability, and a bit more fun :)

the pacemaker is for the "astina" or something I think... 2L fsde - it should work. as for cost I believe from memory you get change out of $400 australian for it...plus shipping. They wont deal directly though so you'll need to go through an australian exhaust shop - i'm happy to liase with some shops for if you chose to go this way.
Can you show me pix of this header? Been trying to find some online but am not succeeding. That would be a decent price, especially since I'd make some money from selling my gear, but I'd get them ceramic coated first...

true you can change cams easilly - it will cost you a retune though ...
I'm aware ;)

the required machining is to get the big end width in spec to fit the fsde crank... they just need to take a bit of width off it - i had it done for a guy here a while back and it was fairly cheap. Wrist pin size needs to macth the sr20 rod - which is quite a bit larger than the fsde rod (can't remember exatly though) - custom pistons are going to be a fair bit more pricey but worth it imho.
How much are we talking for the pistons? I'm already looking at spending ~400-450AUD for the JDMs with piston rings...
 
at least 1K USD for a good set of custom pistons. I'm still hoping to get to 175 before I start mkII.....
 
If that's true, then that's WAY out of my price league when you consider what I'd have to pay for the rods...

As for the header, I found one for 211USD here. Not sure if it's the right one though...
Edit: So I finally found a picture...it looks exactly like the Ractive header...which I can get locally for 200$. Should I just stick with the Ractive?

Pacesetter:
Pacemaker-Header-PH4340_1.jpg


Ractive:
4fc2.jpg

21da.jpg

2396.jpg

4d8f.jpg

c444.jpg
 
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If that's true, then that's WAY out of my price league when you consider what I'd have to pay for the rods...

As for the header, I found one for 211USD here. Not sure if it's the right one though...
Edit: So I finally found a picture...it looks exactly like the Ractive header...which I can get locally for 200$. Should I just stick with the Ractive?

Pacesetter:
Pacemaker-Header-PH4340_1.jpg


Ractive:
4fc2.jpg

21da.jpg

2396.jpg

4d8f.jpg

c444.jpg

you should be able to get weisco's for less than $1k USD - they go for less than $1k AUD here..they are a noisey piston but good quality (not as good as CP or Arias but they are not junk).

those headers are quite different. top picture outside runners go OVER the inside runners, so runner 2 and 3 are considerably shorter....the Ractive the inside go over, so closer to equal length using laser eyeball technique (tm).

both are a little short by the looks but look easy enough to lengthen...get some runner measurements and i'll work out how much extra pipe you should add. Also consider replacing the collector with a merge type (big gains to be had here). plenty of gain to be had here for cheap(ish).

for 150hp i'd go with a 2.5in exhaust system so throw that into your budget too.

Another rod option is the 3SGTE rod, but it'll need significant modifications to the crank to make them fit - and you'll be stuck with a minimum of 11:1 compression...but rod ratio will be good for close to 8k rpm ;)

edit: oh, and yeah the top one (pacemaker) is the right one. by the looks it has a better merge, still not great but better... the Ractive header is closer to equal length but merge looks like ass.
 
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Ya I think that that is simply too much money for my goals with the car (rods/pistons). I really don't see a problem with my stock rods for a ~7000rpm redline, and the cams should be up to the task to bring me to my goal, even though they aren't great. A redline at that level would definitely be much more long-lasting then a higher one; don't feel like rebuilding anytime soon...read: ever.

As for the exhaust, I'd need to go with a custom midpipe to go with longer runners, and I already have a high quality 2.5" catted midpipe (high flow) which is mated to a 2.375" Racing Beat catback...Then again, I could have the midpipe modified so that it's shorter as that WOULD work, but there isn't much space to work with; I would be thinking of making the present collector from 4-1 to 4-2 and then a short area where it could go to 2-1...what do you think? Here are pix to give you an idea of what I have to work with:
CopyofIMG_1403.jpg

CopyofIMG_1402.jpg
 
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Gah...more money being spent, maybe. Was talking to my local go-to guy when it comes to welding, and for the money being spent and the "return on investment", I'll probably just go with a better collector...probably a 200$ job (which would essentially double the cost of the header, but that's fine if it adds a few more ponies compared to what it can normally do, especially with what I'm throwing at the car).

The next thing he talked about was headwork. His "stage1", as he has worked on Proteg heads before, would apparently get me ~10hp in the midrange, and at least 5 in the upper range. 650CAD is what he quoted me for ~20 hours of work which includes a PROPER port&polish (might need to talk to him about doing a wee bit of work on the intake manifold...more convos to come with him for that) and some combustion chamber work.

Further question. I won't be going with the custom rod/piston combo, but if ever I wanted to up the RPM range a little (say to the 7500rpm range), better (read: stronger) rods would be recommended yes? If so, then any forged rod would be better then the stock crap...The question is, are most forged rods lighter, ~equal or heavier then the stock crap. Anyone know?

I can't wait to find out what my car can do... :)
 
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